Hunting rpm

[johnf514_imp]

Hi Tory, Dave. I caution you both on the ECU reset/reflash. I had this done three (3) times and the high idle condition returned. It was only after the dealership replaced the idle air control valve motor that the issue was (hopefully) resolved.

I realize that your issue may be different from mine, just wanted to add my experience.

 

[tory_imp]

hi Dave,popgun
my bike CB1100ex 2014 since i found engine Hunting rpm or idling too slow to idling too fast then did
1.Installing an 02 sensor eliminator http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6988
2.PAIR Valve Mod http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1824

it better but can't fix it i contact with honda Thailand told them about my bike so they call me to bring my bike for upgrad ECU software only. all problem solved.(i found Power and Torque better than before too.)

service bulletin number or anything else? no don't have ,but i think honda japan know about this problem
in my country just 2 bike got Hunting rpm and solve

all problem because euro emissions if honda unlock software all the world maybe illegal for some country.
sorry about my poor english

 

[dave]

Hi Tory, Dave. I caution you both on the ECU reset/reflash. I had this done three (3) times and the high idle condition returned. It was only after the dealership replaced the idle air control valve motor that the issue was (hopefully) resolved.

I realize that your issue may be different from mine, just wanted to add my experience.

Thank you John. Were you able to hear your IACV cycle when you turned on the ignition before it was replaced? You have to listen carefully because the electric fuel pump cycles at the same time. I can definitely hear my IACV cycling, so I know the motor is functioning. If it's actually doing something, I don't know. What can you tell me about the ECU reset/reflash? Was this performed by Honda? Did they just reset it back to the original settings, or was a new map installed? My dealer doesn't have any information about a new map being available. Any information you can provide me that I can share with my dealer is greatly appreciated.

hi Dave,popgun
my bike CB1100ex 2014 since i found engine Hunting rpm or idling too slow to idling too fast then did
1.Installing an 02 sensor eliminator http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6988
2.PAIR Valve Mod http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1824

it better but can't fix it i contact with honda Thailand told them about my bike so they call me to bring my bike for upgrad ECU software only. all problem solved.(i found Power and Torque better than before too.)

service bulletin number or anything else? no don't have ,but i think honda japan know about this problem
in my country just 2 bike got Hunting rpm and solve

all problem because euro emissions if honda unlock software all the world maybe illegal for some country.
sorry about my poor english

Hi Tory, thank you for your reply, and your English is fine Only two bikes in Thailand have had this problem? I haven't had much success with my Honda dealer addressing a fuel injection problem I had with this bike on the day I bought it (I eventually fixed it myself by performing the Throttle Position Sensor re-set that another member of this forum recommended). Unless I can go into my dealer with solid evidence that a repair exists, I don't have any faith that they will do anything except present me with an expensive bill for the diagnostic test. Funny thing with my bike (and I believe another member of this forum reported the same thing) is that when I unplug the Engine Oil Temperature (EOT)sensor the bike runs perfectly. I replaced the EOT sensor with a new one and the high idling was not fixed, but when I performed a resistance test on the new sensor it was faulty (just like my original one). I am presently waiting for my dealer to get me another new EOT sensor (they performed their own test on the EOT sensor when I returned it and agreed it was not within specification).

 

[johnf514_imp]

Hi Dave. Not sure about the IACV motor cycling before it was replaced. The dealership replaced it a couple weeks ago after determining that it was faulty, and without any other changes, the high idle symptom disappeared.

Previously, the dealership had simply reset the ECU (no remap), and the high idle went away for a couple months. I noticed that several stop-and-starts in a row (like running multiple errands) would make the high idle symptom return. The dealership stated this was due to the IACV motor sending faulty signals to the ECU, thus putting the bike in a high idle "limp" mode.

YMMV, but I recommend asking to test the IACV motor without any sort of ECU work, and seeing if the high idle disappears. I have yet to do a stop-and-start trip, but will do so soon to see if I can trip the high idle and prove to the dealer that there is something else still wrong with the bike. I have six months of Honda Protection Plan warranty left, so I'd rather have the issue taken care of now.

 

[dave]

Hi Dave. Not sure about the IACV motor cycling before it was replaced. The dealership replaced it a couple weeks ago after determining that it was faulty, and without any other changes, the high idle symptom disappeared.

Previously, the dealership had simply reset the ECU (no remap), and the high idle went away for a couple months. I noticed that several stop-and-starts in a row (like running multiple errands) would make the high idle symptom return. The dealership stated this was due to the IACV motor sending faulty signals to the ECU, thus putting the bike in a high idle "limp" mode.

YMMV, but I recommend asking to test the IACV motor without any sort of ECU work, and seeing if the high idle disappears. I have yet to do a stop-and-start trip, but will do so soon to see if I can trip the high idle and prove to the dealer that there is something else still wrong with the bike. I have six months of Honda Protection Plan warranty left, so I'd rather have the issue taken care of now.

Thanks for the feedback John. My bike is out of warranty and I want to avoid paying big $ to the dealer if I can, so I am trying my best to fix this problem myself (although I am beginning to think this is highly unlikely). The fact that unplugging my EOT sensor makes the bike run perfectly really makes me think that the problem has something to do with the computer recognizing the correct operating temperature of the engine and adjusting the idle speed appropriately. My original, and the first replacement EOT sensor, both measured out of specification according to the Honda shop manual, and I am now waiting for another EOT sensor from the dealer (they took the defective sensor back after they confirmed for themselves that it was faulty). Both my original and the first replacement sensors measured lower-than-designed resistance (1.9 K-ohm and 2.0 K-ohm, spec is 2.4K-ohm to 2.9 K-ohm). I wish I understood how the IACV, the EOT sensor, and the computer all work together because I think they're all related to this high / low idle speed issue.

 

[johnf514_imp]

Dave, hoping in your case it is just the EOT sensor. That would be the least expensive and time consuming fix. Keep us posted.

 

[dave]

Dave, hoping in your case it is just the EOT sensor. That would be the least expensive and time consuming fix. Keep us posted.

I'll summarize to keep this simple:
1. New EOT sensor does not correct high idle speed problem.
2. EOT sensor resistance is very sensitive to temperature variation so be careful when testing. Honda says to inspect at 68 deg F, and they mean it. A few degrees warmer (after holding it in your hand) will cause a good sensor to test bad.
3. I got frustrated riding my bike when the idle speed was at 1,500 RPM so I stopped and unplugged the EOT sensor and it ran perfect.
4. Unplugging my EOT sensor makes my bike run perfect when warm, but hard to start after sitting for a few days.
5. In the past my bike had fixed itself when this problem occurred, but that doesn't seem to be happening now.
6. I am nearly at my wits end with this bike and I may have to resort to taking it to the dealer, but I HATE doing this (I'm not giving up yet).
7. I can hear my IACV cycling "normally" (?), so I don't think it's this. The fact that my bike runs perfectly with the EOT sensor unplugged makes me think it's not related to the IACV.
8. I am waiting to see if I can get some more feedback from members who have had their ECM remapped before going to the dealer because the dealer doesn't have a clue about what I am talking about.

 

[johnf514_imp]

HI Dave, sorry to hear the EOT sensor fix did not work in your case. Going to the dealer may allow them to run tests and pull codes from the ECM, helping with the troubleshooting process. While the IACV may sound like it is cycling normally, the motor could still be sending bad data to the ECM.

Talk to the dealer and perhaps they will run the codes for you at no charge. This is a documented issue with the CB1100 and they can reference my case (Central FL Powersports in Kissimmee, FL, dated Oct 24 2016, tech name Jimmy Le) for further details.

I hope this helps.

 

[dave]

HI Dave, sorry to hear the EOT sensor fix did not work in your case. Going to the dealer may allow them to run tests and pull codes from the ECM, helping with the troubleshooting process. While the IACV may sound like it is cycling normally, the motor could still be sending bad data to the ECM.

Talk to the dealer and perhaps they will run the codes for you at no charge. This is a documented issue with the CB1100 and they can reference my case (Central FL Powersports in Kissimmee, FL, dated Oct 24 2016, tech name Jimmy Le) for further details.

I hope this helps.

Hi John. Thank you for your support and suggestions. I'm waiting to hear back from beardy on how his remapping went before I go to my dealer. The problem I have is I don't have much faith in the Honda dealer where I bought my bike. Maybe if it's just a matter of reading the code from the ECM they can perform this simple test. I'll keep this post updated as I work through this. Thanks again.

 

[dave]

Hi John. How is your bike running since the IACV was replaced? Has the high RPM idle ever returned? Thank you.

 

[johnf514_imp]

Hi Dave, no issues with the bike since the replacement of the IACV motor. I haven't put the bike through a repeated stop-start scenario, however I have ridden several hundred miles in a variety of traffic and temperatures that I would expect to exacerbate any lingering issues. I'll probably do the stop-start test in the coming days as I'll be off work.

Any progress on your ride? Has Beardy gotten back to you? Hope all is well.

 

[dave]

Hi Dave, no issues with the bike since the replacement of the IACV motor. I haven't put the bike through a repeated stop-start scenario, however I have ridden several hundred miles in a variety of traffic and temperatures that I would expect to exacerbate any lingering issues. I'll probably do the stop-start test in the coming days as I'll be off work.

Any progress on your ride? Has Beardy gotten back to you? Hope all is well.

Hi John. Thank you for your reply. No progress with my bike. Beardy reply was bad news - dealer said no new map was available. Please keep me updated. My bike has been parked for two weeks now because I just don't enjoy riding it the way it runs. I rode the XR650L last weekend, and the VFR800 the weekend before.
Hi John and All. Can I get some feedback please? Can you guys listen to your Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) cycle when you turn your ignition key on and describe the sound you hear? It's located on the RH side throttle body, between the throttle body and the air filter. You have to listen very carefully because the sound of the electric fuel pump is much louder (please don't confuse the fuel pump sound for the IACV sound). Today, the sound of my IACV cycling when I turn on my key is extremely faint - it used to be much louder, and this is leading me to believe that it may be faulty. It makes a faint clicking noise, at what I would guess to be maybe 200 - 300 hz. I am starting to believe that maybe my IACV is faulty, and this is causing the high RPM idle (that sometimes is low RPM idle and stalling). I don't want to spend the $ for a new IACV and go through all the work to replace it unless I have a high level of confidence that this will correct my high idle problem. Thank you.

 

[beardyweirdy@me.com_imp]

Hi Fellas,

Sorry, I posted my update on another thread.
The dealer tried to load the new map that they had been sent by Honda, but the computer said that the Map I had was the same version number and did not need updating. Either they thought my bike had an older version of the map or they hadn't updated the version number of the new map.
It's been referred back to Honda and I'm waiting for the dealer to get back to me.
It's happened twice in the last week, dawdling thru traffic 2-up. Once it stalled at the lights which was most embracing. Made my misses nervous too....

I'll chase them Monday to find out what's going on. I may take it up with Honda, directly, and skip out the dealer...

k

 

[Rolls_imp]

My '13 was afflicted with this disorder earlier this year for a couple of months. It might've been brought on by the slightest of overfills during an oil change in the spring, but I emphasize slight and might.

At one point, during a break in a ride, upon restarting and riding slowly for a mile, the normally rock steady 1100 rpm idle faltered. Then faltered again and stalled at a stop sign. Within an hour, that behavior righted itself, but shortly thereafter, it started to favor 1800rpm for warm idle. Symptoms were once warmed up, the bike would not return to normal warm idle. If shut off and restarted warm, it would idle at 1100, but as soon as I went above 1800, it would lock on to 1800 as it's warm idle speed again.

Interestingly, while decelerating during riding (throttle off), it would decel normally down through about 3000rpm, then at about 2600? rpm something would switch and you could tell it was not slowing as much, a sign it was no longer headed down to normal idle of 1100, but had instead plotted a new decel path to 1800 rpm.

This continued for a couple of months and persisted for some time after an oil change which erred on the low side of the full range (does anyone ever know whether the ground is truly level for a precise oil level check?), the behavior persisted. I remember it bugging me when riding down to my brother's house in Monterey, the night before my track day at Laguna Seca in November, a trip of 100 miles at Cali freeway speeds (80-90mph). I stopped at the very last exit ramp to check my phone and I clearly remember the idle was annoyingly high.

Sometime during the track day, maybe before the on-track portion (sorry, can't remember), the problem disappeared and normal idle returned. It fixed itself. Did the full day of 30min at a time flogging the bike around the track help? The occasional run beyond redline? I honestly don't know if it was coincidental or causal.

It continues to behave well, but I wouldn't be surprised if the high idle issue returns. Will keep you posted if it acts up again. Hope it helps.

 

[johnf514_imp]

Hi Rolls, thanks for sharing. Interesting that your CB fixed itself. I hoped for this when my high idle issues occurred but did not have any luck there. Did you notice additional heat fuel consumption on your bike when it was in the high idle condition?

Hi Beardy, hope the dealer sorts things out for you. My dealer had a Honda Tech come out to diagnose the issue and the tech is the one that recommended a new IACV motor. Not sure about your maps, but definitely best to have a company rep take a look.

Hi Dave, I uploaded a video of my bike's ignition sound for you, shot from the RH side of the bike. Let me know if you need anything else.

 

[Rolls_imp]

Hi Rolls, thanks for sharing. Interesting that your CB fixed itself. I hoped for this when my high idle issues occurred but did not have any luck there. Did you notice additional heat fuel consumption on your bike when it was in the high idle condition?

Hi Beardy, hope the dealer sorts things out for you. My dealer had a Honda Tech come out to diagnose the issue and the tech is the one that recommended a new IACV motor. Not sure about your maps, but definitely best to have a company rep take a look.

Hi Dave, I uploaded a video of my bike's ignition sound for you, shot from the RH side of the bike. Let me know if you need anything else.

I think fuel consumption increased by about than 10%, but I haven't done the data crunching to validate that feeling. While I'm quite good at capturing fill up data (I snap a photo of pump, odometer and trip odo after each fill) I haven't been good about using those pics to go back and plot mpg over time. Data's all there though, if I ever get around to it.

 

[dave]

Hi Rolls, thanks for sharing. Interesting that your CB fixed itself. I hoped for this when my high idle issues occurred but did not have any luck there. Did you notice additional heat fuel consumption on your bike when it was in the high idle condition?

Hi Beardy, hope the dealer sorts things out for you. My dealer had a Honda Tech come out to diagnose the issue and the tech is the one that recommended a new IACV motor. Not sure about your maps, but definitely best to have a company rep take a look.

Hi Dave, I uploaded a video of my bike's ignition sound for you, shot from the RH side of the bike. Let me know if you need anything else.

Hi John,

Thank you so much!!! My bike used to sound exactly like this, but now (what I believe to be the IACV motor sound) is MUCH fainter. I believe the higher frequency buzzing sound is the fuel pump, and the lower frequency sound is the IACV. This seems to indicate my IACV motor is not functioning properly now. BTW - my battery died yesterday! Shut my motor down at a stoplight because the 1,500 RPM idle was bothering me and it wouldn't restart. Had to push it off the road and then bump-started it back to life. I am going to replace my battery first and see if this has anything to do with my IACV sound. Thanks again John!!!

 

[johnf514_imp]

Dave, you're most welcome. I hope the issue is only a faulty battery, and if not, time to look into replacing the IACV motor.

When you change the battery, it might be worth it to fully reset the bike by holding down the brake lever for several seconds with the battery disconnected. This may help when reconnecting the new battery and getting the ECU back to a reset state.

 

[Gumby 1100_imp]

Dave, you're most welcome. I hope the issue is only a faulty battery, and if not, time to look into replacing the IACV motor.

When you change the battery, it might be worth it to fully reset the bike by holding down the brake lever for several seconds with the battery disconnected. This may help when reconnecting the new battery and getting the ECU back to a reset state.

This is the first I have read of this "ECU Reset" procedure.

Is it "CB1100 specific" or just something that has worked for you with other bikes in the past?

What type of ECU parameters is this procedure supposed to affect?

 

[Cormanus]

Dave, you're most welcome. I hope the issue is only a faulty battery, and if not, time to look into replacing the IACV motor.

When you change the battery, it might be worth it to fully reset the bike by holding down the brake lever for several seconds with the battery disconnected. This may help when reconnecting the new battery and getting the ECU back to a reset state.

This is the first I have read of this "ECU Reset" procedure.

Is it "CB1100 specific" or just something that has worked for you with other bikes in the past?

What type of ECU parameters is this procedure supposed to affect?

This is the first I have read of this "ECU Reset" procedure.

Is it "CB1100 specific" or just something that has worked for you with other bikes in the past?

What type of ECU parameters is this procedure supposed to affect?
And which brake lever? 'Hold down' suggests the rear brake. Is that right?