Honda WN7

the Ferret said:
well if that 217 is like most EV claims, it's if you ride around in the city at 25-35 mph. Get out on the open road and it sucks it down to between 1/2 and 2/3 of that.

Yeah, I imagine so. The rep claimed that the 217 number was bested by a test rider who only stopped because the weather was getting bad... 

Wonder what it would do on my commute, at 80mph sustained for an hour.
 
Ferret, I'm curious: would the WN7 get you around your average daily ride?
 
Yes on most days it would. Some days not.

If Honda would price is under $10K I'd have a serious look, but what are the chances of that happening?


Gone in 60 said:
the Ferret said:
well if that 217 is like most EV claims, it's if you ride around in the city at 25-35 mph. Get out on the open road and it sucks it down to between 1/2 and 2/3 of that.

Yeah, I imagine so. The rep claimed that the 217 number was bested by a test rider who only stopped because the weather was getting bad... 

Wonder what it would do on my commute, at 80mph sustained for an hour.

Leave you standing by the side of the road
 
[quote="the Ferret" pid='271011' dateline='1758573907']
Yes on most days it would. Some days not.

If Honda would price is under $10K I'd have a serious look, but what are the chances of that happening?

[/QUOTE]

If it'd get around your loops it would be a great bike for a bloke like you who rides a modest distance every day. Or for a rider with a short commute. I could use an electric bike on a good deal of the riding I'm doing at the moment which is short distances. It would just not be any use for the sort of day or multi-day rides I do. It'd add days to each trip while I waited for the thing to charge!

The price'll be interesting; probably unlikely to be under $10K though.
 
Here's another thing Cormanus. The batteries in these EV bikes have life cycles of charges. So, if you charge it, that's one life cycle. Ride it a day bring it home and charge it so you can ride it the next day, that's a life cycle. Ride 7 days a week having charged the battery overnight every time that's 7 life cycles. So, if you are a daily rider, ride every day, recharge the battery every night you are seriously wearing out the battery. Zero says the battery is good for 1380 charge cycles. 1380 charge cycles divided by 365 days in a year equals 3.7 years before you will be due to buy a new $4000 battery. If you ride once or twice a week, it wouldn't be so bad, but for a daily rider it would be much cheaper to buy gasoline. $4000 in my NC at $3.50 a gallon (btw it's under $3 a gallon here now and has been all year) would buy 1143 gallons of gas and go over 80,000 miles @ 70 mpg (conservative.... I average between 74 and 81 mpg)

Then factor in the price of the bike. A Zero S today is about $20 grand. An NC 750 is $9500 or half the price of the electric.

I consider electric motorcycles rich guys toys.
 
Its always been a sad fact that the motorcycle industry (at least in North America) completely ignores daily riders like us. The sad thing is these bikes could be engineered to produce longer life cycles and better range and reliability to cater to daily riders, but the market research tells them we don't exist. Riding the bike once a week is exactly what they calculated for. Then there's profitability. You have to remember these bikes, much like their car counterparts, are being marketed and sold more like cell phones than vehicles. Before long the vehicle market will resemble the consumer electronics market much more closely. Products designed to fail with shorter and shorter lifespans, but the consumer isn't expected to care about that because you don't buy your cell phone anymore, you just **get** one with your service subscription plan. And it gets replaced every so often. Your old one goes in the trash.
 
Gone in 60 said:
... marketing the upcoming Verge electric motorcycle - Verge Motorcycles – The Hubless Electric Motorcycle

They're claiming a 217 mile range, but at a cost of $35k to purchase. Not something I'd consider, but it is very unique...

Practical considerations aside, the Verge motorcycle is fascinating for the audacity of the design.  The advantage of using a "hubmotor" to open up more volume for batteries is pretty clear.  I put "hubmotor" in quotes because this one is a sort of "hubless hubmotor."  :D  Focusing the motor mass as far out on the radius as possible makes sense.  The bearings required to do this must be impressive.  I would love to see the disassembled motor, wheel, and bearings, or a cutaway drawing.

The problem of unsprung mass is a valid concern for hubmotor designs generally.  I think the concern is often expressed in terms of the effects on handling.  But I think a test ride over uneven pavement could answer that question pretty quickly.  What I'm more worried about is the potential long-term effects of impact loads if it is ridden often on bumpy pavement.  There must be some really precise tolerances/clearances in that motor, so I hope they have tested extensively in a realistic environment to ensure they hold up.


On the practical side, there are not many good arguments for electric motorcycles.  When I lived in northern CA I had a couple co-workers who commuted on Zero motorcycles, but I found motorcycle commuting unenjoyable.  Lane-splitting helps, but heavy traffic sucked the joy out of motorcycling for me, so I found it was not worth the risk.  Maybe for a nicer commute (less traffic) a used Zero would make sense.  When I lived in FL I did commute quite often on the Royal E-field.

For electric autos, there are some good arguments.  The economical approach is to buy a used EV worth less than half its original price, but with most of its range (life) still remaining.  It's not hard to do.  I did this first with a 2013 Leaf and I put well over 130,000 miles on it, essentially maintenance-free.  I recently bought a 2017 Bolt with only 20,000 miles on the battery (replaced under warranty/recall).  It gets almost 300 miles range in summer and 200 miles in winter, and I bought it for under $13k USD.

I hope to get many more miles on the Bolt than I did on the Leaf.  Every mile on the Bolt saves a mile on my more expensive and maintenance-intensive gas vehicles.  An EV as a second or third car makes a lot more sense than an EV as an only car.  They are not the best x-country vehicles, but the Bolt can probably handle well over 95% of my driving needs which are short and medium length trips.  Oh, and access to the Tesla network with a $200 adapter is a nice option, just in case I want to go further.

One final thought: Even if the cycle life of the battery is advertised as 1000 cycles or 2000, etc. that usually means when the battery is down to ~80% original capacity.  But you can use the car or motorcycle well beyond that point, especially if it has decent range to begin with.  When my Bolt is down to 80% original capacity (range) I will still be able to do almost all my driving with it.
 
Rich man's toy? The Verge is only 35 grand.
Shut up and take my money.

Actually, now that they have a few demo Verge bikes at the Bike Shed, I will try to swing a test ride some time soon when I'm in the area for the museum. The $30k LiveWire One was a nice ride. Yeah, It's on clearance right now for around $16k, but so what...
 
According to google

The Verge TS Pro offers a claimed city range of up to 217 miles and a highway range of around 124 miles at a steady 56 mph, though the true range varies based on factors like riding conditions, riding style, and temperature. The motorcycle's world-record ride of 193 miles through London's traffic was under urban conditions, with 7% battery remaining.

Heck even I go faster than 56 miles an hour upon occasion lol
 
I agree, Ferret, electric bikes for anything more than a short commute or short weekend ride are not yet a seriously viable proposition. Were I still at work and having to commute by road, one would work really well. So too for much of the sort of riding I'm doing at the moment. As for the rides that give rise to chronicles — nah.

Gone, if the Zero or Verge are mere trifles, pop out, buy one, and give us a series of reports as you get used to it. :D
 
the range would be enough for my  frequently used standard loop.... :D

torque from a 1000ccm and power from a 600ccm   are more as enough....

if i would sale all my actual bikes i could afford the wn7... :cool:

ok I would keep the grom.... ;)





I don't know how much money I'll give my mechanic for maintenance work within 3-4 years, I'll probably get half a battery for it........ Except for changing tires there are probably no costs ?

.
 
Thread starter
Cormanus said:
That's the idea. We have solar panels on our roof that generate more than enough power to run our house. We don't have a battery, so we sell the surplus to our energy provider.

Which is much better for the environment, no battery disposal when they degrade too much.
 
Here's another small disadvantage I can add to electric bikes based on my limited experience. Of course I can't speak for all E moto platforms, but I've ridden a couple of different form factors from Zero and I have to say.... There's something really off about the gyroscopic forces at play in the motorcycle. It was HARD to turn. The Zero SRF felt like it was fighting me twice as hard as my triumph to stay on a line in a curve. The thing only really wants to go straight, and that wasn't giving it the full beans either. Some combination of its weight distribution and the immediacy of the torque creates a machine that doesn't quite understand what the rider wants from it. Given their similar architecture, I wonder if the WN7 has made any improvements there.
 
I will add that at first the non-tactile sense you get when you climb on an EV bike is weird. When I took my test ride on the Zero, the guy pulled it out of the shop, turned on the key and said "there it's running". I said "what's running?" as I couldn't hear or feel anything sitting on the bike. It was just a dead lump. He said just twist the throttle and you'll go. So I did. Rode about a block and came to a stop sign. When I stopped I immediately thought " dang, this thing just quit" (because there is no sound or vibration to let you know it's in fact still running) as I was looking down and around at the "motor" trying to figure out how to get it started again. I twisted the throttle and it took off again. Weird...although I guess you get used to it.
 
like scooter without sound......turn the throttle and brake that's it..........and if you stand a bit longer : start/stop automatic.. and quiet  there is...minimum at the little scooters from honda
 
alprider said:
like scooter without sound......turn the throttle and brake that's it..........and if you stand a bit longer : start/stop automatic.. and quiet  there is...minimum at the little scooters from honda

…. I cannot hear you when you’re riding that scooter  :P
 
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