Thread starter
There's a few interesting questions raised in this article.
High Tech Motorcycles
- Thread starter Cormanus
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Pterodactyl_imp
Road warrior
And the answers are complex. But, being a simple soul, to question 1 I answer YES.
Cheers
Cheers
redbirds_imp
Road warrior
I would agree that motorcycles are becoming too high tech for my taste but that's just me. Anti lock brakes are something we can all agree have added a great margin of safety. Still, it seems that we give up something for every gain that's made in technology. Our distant ancestors could break a flint to make a sharp edge and from there build a shelter, make clothing, create fire and weapons to secure food. I love the trappings that technology gives us but the downside is our increasing dependence on it. That said, the first bow to cast an arrow was a wonder of technology in it's time.
I put 12,000 miles on my 2013 Honda CBR1000RR (non abs) which has none of the safety features mentioned in this article. The only super bike not to have any of this technology. You learn how much throttle you can push out of a turn without spinning up and gives you complete control of the bike. I agree there's way to much tech for the young kid mounting a liter bike with no seat time under his belt.
Put them on a CB1100 for a few 1000 miles and they will learn the respect and knowledge of ridding.
Edit: 2010 not 2013
Put them on a CB1100 for a few 1000 miles and they will learn the respect and knowledge of ridding.
Edit: 2010 not 2013
HikerToo_imp
Road warrior
Maybe, but at my age, I wish I had all those things on my bike, especially if they were free.
If I were to buy a BMW S1000R naked like I dream of...I would want all the safety features it had to offer, although may not want to spend the extra money for them.
If I were to buy a BMW S1000R naked like I dream of...I would want all the safety features it had to offer, although may not want to spend the extra money for them.
ClassicVW_imp
Road warrior
I've mentioned ( or maybe ranted ) before about how I left BMW after owning 8 or 10 of them due to the fact of increasing complexity and high cost to maintain. BMW motorcycles have become like their cars and some other brands ( Mercedes ) where they are great to own, but you don't want to own one after the warranty expires.
To be clear, I'm not lamenting the safety improvements like ABS brakes and traction control, but other increased technology seemingly installed just for the sake of being able to claim technological supremacy of their brand. Do we really need a front shock absorber that talks through the onboard computer to the rear shock, telling it that it just went over a bump and to get ready for it? And what happens when something goes wrong? How does an owner trouble shoot that, to determine just where the problem lies? Answer is, he can't. Back to the dealer it goes and probably waits three weeks for parts from Germany. Are the shocks going to cost $2,000 each to replace, along with a $4,000 computer? Their clutch jobs already cost $4,000, and final drives over $2,000.
To be clear, I'm not lamenting the safety improvements like ABS brakes and traction control, but other increased technology seemingly installed just for the sake of being able to claim technological supremacy of their brand. Do we really need a front shock absorber that talks through the onboard computer to the rear shock, telling it that it just went over a bump and to get ready for it? And what happens when something goes wrong? How does an owner trouble shoot that, to determine just where the problem lies? Answer is, he can't. Back to the dealer it goes and probably waits three weeks for parts from Germany. Are the shocks going to cost $2,000 each to replace, along with a $4,000 computer? Their clutch jobs already cost $4,000, and final drives over $2,000.
ChipBeck_imp
Road warrior
Gentlemen,
Time marches on and as tech gear gets cheaper we will see it added to more and more bikes. When it gets added to enough bikes legislation will make it mandatory (like air bags and ABS in cars). I bought a CB1100 because I like the elemental simplicity of the bike. To me it's as much a piece of art as it is a machine to ride. Because I live in AZ with our super low humidity and high heat, carburetors dry up quickly during storage and require rebuilding so I love the fuel injection. And electronic ignition sure beats points and condenser. I chose a non-antilock CB for myself but I paid for antilock on my sons Ducati.
Computer controlled suspension, stability control, ride by wire, and 7 different riding mode power and throttle control settings are things I'm not ready for or excited about. But I'm an old guy who likes old stuff. Sometimes bow hunting is more fun than high power rifle hunting with a laser range finding variable power scope. Cheers.
Chip
Time marches on and as tech gear gets cheaper we will see it added to more and more bikes. When it gets added to enough bikes legislation will make it mandatory (like air bags and ABS in cars). I bought a CB1100 because I like the elemental simplicity of the bike. To me it's as much a piece of art as it is a machine to ride. Because I live in AZ with our super low humidity and high heat, carburetors dry up quickly during storage and require rebuilding so I love the fuel injection. And electronic ignition sure beats points and condenser. I chose a non-antilock CB for myself but I paid for antilock on my sons Ducati.
Computer controlled suspension, stability control, ride by wire, and 7 different riding mode power and throttle control settings are things I'm not ready for or excited about. But I'm an old guy who likes old stuff. Sometimes bow hunting is more fun than high power rifle hunting with a laser range finding variable power scope. Cheers.
Chip
HikerToo_imp
Road warrior
There is room for both and all.......technology advances have always been met with skepticism and resistance.....takes all types, luckily everyone is not a nay-sayer and against change or we would still be on horses and wagons.
The Spaceman_imp
Road warrior
I'm all for advancing technology in bikes, cars, toasters, sex aids...wherever it can be applied. The article almost presents the issue as an either/or choice: should we either increase rider training or spend on tech? I say do both.
I'll admit that if I had TC on the CB it would probably be in the max setting 99% of the time, but if I had a superbike I'd probably use the system in conditions like rain etc.
Its easy to wax nostalgic about the days when manly men managed a bikes power with raw reflex and speed, but I can't help but wonder if Wayne Rainey wishes he'd had TC at that Italian Grand Prix.
I'll admit that if I had TC on the CB it would probably be in the max setting 99% of the time, but if I had a superbike I'd probably use the system in conditions like rain etc.
Its easy to wax nostalgic about the days when manly men managed a bikes power with raw reflex and speed, but I can't help but wonder if Wayne Rainey wishes he'd had TC at that Italian Grand Prix.
Pterodactyl_imp
Road warrior
There you go. The answers are complex. Depends on your world view I suppose, or more accurately, your view on the essence of motorcycling. Ambivalence is everywhere, especially in me. I don't want a super high tech bike but I prefer, apart from the odd nostalgia hit, to ride my CB (non ABS) than my Bonneville ('61). Would I have liked ABS on my CB (not available on models sold in Oz)? Probably. So with that outlook am I a Luddite? I don't think so. Maybe a Luddite Light 
.
Technology can be a two edged sword. Spaceman, Chip, Classic, Hiker, you all make good points. However, there is one aspect that disturbs me - "Regulation". Regulate rider training, not a bad thing in my view. Regulate the design and construction of motorcycles to make them perfectly safe (Pterodactyl proof)? Or even a lot safer than they are now? Compulsory high tech for our own, and other road users safety? Not for me. Could that happen? I believe so. The thin edge of the wedge is already there. The PC brigade would have us in one seat, high tech Toyota Econoboxes, if they could.
Cheers
WARNING: If you own a Toyota Econobox do not take my remarks regarding these fine vehicles personally.
. Technology can be a two edged sword. Spaceman, Chip, Classic, Hiker, you all make good points. However, there is one aspect that disturbs me - "Regulation". Regulate rider training, not a bad thing in my view. Regulate the design and construction of motorcycles to make them perfectly safe (Pterodactyl proof)? Or even a lot safer than they are now? Compulsory high tech for our own, and other road users safety? Not for me. Could that happen? I believe so. The thin edge of the wedge is already there. The PC brigade would have us in one seat, high tech Toyota Econoboxes, if they could.
Cheers
WARNING: If you own a Toyota Econobox do not take my remarks regarding these fine vehicles personally.
flynrider
Road warrior
I'm kind of a luddite where bike technology is concerned. I was a bit leery back in the early 80s when I bought my first bike with electronic ignition, but a few hundred thousand miles brought acceptance and appreciation. I haven't touched my dwell meter since then.
The CB1100 is my first bike with a car-like ECU and EFI. I'm pretty comfortable that these are proven technologies, even though the mass of wires snaking around the bike worry the wrencher in me. Compared to the electrical system on my old CB750, it's quite a bit more complex.
When it comes to gadgets like traction control, stability augmentation etc.., I'll pass. I don't think my riding style really require those sort of devices. Gadgets that don't provide a benefit (for me), but have a maintenance penalty are not what I'm looking for in a bike.
I've noticed a trend in cages over the years to provide more and more flashy electronic gadgets. They're impressive when you first buy the cage, but can become a real nightmare as the cage ages. I prefer my bikes to have as little gadgetry as is practical. I tend to keep vehicles til they wear out, so it makes a difference to me (My '99 Nissan pickup with hand crank windows and manual door locks still works like new).
The CB1100 is my first bike with a car-like ECU and EFI. I'm pretty comfortable that these are proven technologies, even though the mass of wires snaking around the bike worry the wrencher in me. Compared to the electrical system on my old CB750, it's quite a bit more complex.
When it comes to gadgets like traction control, stability augmentation etc.., I'll pass. I don't think my riding style really require those sort of devices. Gadgets that don't provide a benefit (for me), but have a maintenance penalty are not what I'm looking for in a bike.
I've noticed a trend in cages over the years to provide more and more flashy electronic gadgets. They're impressive when you first buy the cage, but can become a real nightmare as the cage ages. I prefer my bikes to have as little gadgetry as is practical. I tend to keep vehicles til they wear out, so it makes a difference to me (My '99 Nissan pickup with hand crank windows and manual door locks still works like new).
rboe
Road warrior
First bikes were pedal start. Total loss oiling, exposed rockers, no air filter, skinny leak prone tires, hand shifted, hand ignition advance and if you had a horn you had to squeeze it. If you desired to tour on it people would consider having you committed.
It wasn't no horse.
It wasn't no horse.
Obliviontoad
Running like a top
The "tick tick tick" of the EFI system on the CB is a reminder to me of how little I can do to this bike as opposed to my 40year old mechanical wonders. But, in the end, I have no choke, little warm up, straight up power when needed, and aside from one dead battery episode, has never stranded me.
I don't see a new bike on the horizon for me, but I am always looking for another old bike to wrench around on. It's not nostalgia, just what I was brought up on. Feels correct in a way.
I don't see a new bike on the horizon for me, but I am always looking for another old bike to wrench around on. It's not nostalgia, just what I was brought up on. Feels correct in a way.
furious_blue_imp
Been there
Us older folk are the only ones who, if stranded on a deserted island, with enough of the right natural resources, could eventually build a running motorcycle because we've worked on them before they ever became dependent on semiconductors.
I guess the only problem is that nowadays there ARE no deserted islands, so we're useless anyhow...
I guess the only problem is that nowadays there ARE no deserted islands, so we're useless anyhow...
Elipten_imp
Road warrior
Well I work all over the world. And a lot of it is very remote still with low educated populations. So one trip in the remote of Africa the Land Cruiser died, the 2 drivers were clueless, and the other members of the party. I checked the fuel, then spark. Found points were extremely worn. Took out a penny, rubbed it on the point surfaces for a Bit getting a copper coating, off we went. New stuff works great but my high school auto shop buddy tells me there are a lot of dead machines because cannot get the electronic modules for snow mobiles, lawn mowers and etc that are between 20 and 30 years old. Old stuff is fun and I understand, but the day is passing just like we all don't have a horse out in the shed. I bet men 100 years felt the same, they understood the horse, and not the first cars.
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furious_blue_imp
Been there
I hope all attendees were suitably impressed !Elipten_imp said:
While it was good to know about the old machines, I will admit that I do not miss AT ALL, having to kneel down every 3,000 miles with a file and a screwdriver to make my offering to the breaker point gods.
Elipten_imp
Road warrior
You bet, I like the old but electronics, and FI are great.
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redbirds_imp
Road warrior
I don't miss breaker points or carbs. Modern ignition systems and FI give us cleaner running motors with more power and better fuel mileage. What's not to like?
However, the ability to repair the older systems with simple tools, even at the roadside, was a plus. In an area of the World where access to service and parts was limited or unavailable, I would prefer the old systems knowing I could do the repair without need of specialized parts or test equipment.
However, the ability to repair the older systems with simple tools, even at the roadside, was a plus. In an area of the World where access to service and parts was limited or unavailable, I would prefer the old systems knowing I could do the repair without need of specialized parts or test equipment.
Elipten_imp
Road warrior
+1
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shdwghst457_imp
Been there
Well on the note of bikes and modern technology, I revived a relatively abandoned 2011 CBR1000RR this past weekend. Just needed a battery, air in the tires, and someone determined to get it to fire once it had power. A carbureted bike would have needed a bit more attention.
Now, coming from the Shadow 750, the CB1100 is a massively powerful bike, much more capable of lifting the front wheel than said Shadow. That said, the CBR is simply bat sh*t crazy. While I enjoyed riding it briefly, I could never imagine owning one, and the insurance was 12x higher than for the CB, but I realize now that just because our beloved has an 1140cc 4 cylinder doesn't mean it has anything on modern literbikes. I now know how overpowered the CB1100 isn't!
Now, coming from the Shadow 750, the CB1100 is a massively powerful bike, much more capable of lifting the front wheel than said Shadow. That said, the CBR is simply bat sh*t crazy. While I enjoyed riding it briefly, I could never imagine owning one, and the insurance was 12x higher than for the CB, but I realize now that just because our beloved has an 1140cc 4 cylinder doesn't mean it has anything on modern literbikes. I now know how overpowered the CB1100 isn't!
