High mileage and oil consumption

[Jurlie_imp]

Hi folks,

My '13 has 59.5k miles on its clock, and the last couple of oil changes I noticed that oil level before the change is on the minimum mark (the last time even slightly below than that) besides I always fill it up to the upper mark. To be precise, after filling the new oil I let the bike heat up, then cool down for 5 min, check the oil level (usually it's slightly less than upper mark), and add up to the upper mark again.

So, my question is: does the engine start to wear out and this means something will have to be done some time soon (like piston rings, valve oil seals)?

What is the oil consumption do you guys have at the bikes with higher mileage?

I use Honda GN4 10w40 oil, if that matters.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

I recall the CB1100 [maybe] burning a wee bit of oil, but nothing unusual for ownership of inline-4s of the past. I was never concerned for the '14 CB1100.

As with all my past inline-4s, the oil would darken quickly. This is not the case for twins (except the '76 Yamaha RD400 two-smoker) and singles I have had.

 

[Jurlie_imp]

I recall the CB1100 [maybe] burning a wee bit of oil, but nothing unusual for ownership of inline-4s of the past. I was never concerned for the '14 CB1100.

As with all my past inline-4s, the oil would darken quickly. This is not the case for twins (except the '76 Yamaha RD400 two-smoker) and singles I have had.

I would think so, as well, but the thing is it was never consuming a drop when it was newer (say 30-40k miles).
Anyway, I agree, before I have to add 500 ml to make it to the next oil change, there's no major concern, perhaps.

 

[j3gq_imp]

@Jurlie, a couple of points:
- it is one of those subjects, where you get 13 opinions, when asking 12 owners,
- technically, an air-cooled engine usually does (but does not need to) burn more oil than a water-cooled one,
- oil burn is not necessarily steady, or going up steadily with age,
- but most important - and regardless of advice from self proclaimed experts - even high oil burn rates for a long time should not make you worry - unless there is other signs of damage (sparks, etc.). The risk of taking the engine apart, and have it develop other problems afterwards, is just not justified by "high oil burn".

Now tell me
- in which temperature (extremes) do you typically operate ?
- lots of inner city riding, or steady 50mph on country roads ?
- did you recently change oil because it's been 1y from the last change, or because of miles you rode ?

To give you a house-number, I'd say even that if my Honda burned 1 quart every 50 hours of operation, I would not become concerned. After all it's not an aircraft, where an engine failure causes a forced landing or a ditch.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Using 1/2 quart between changes, you may want to consider 10W50, such as Castrol Power 1 RS.
Riding in the east bay area, 20W50 (easier to find) would work.
BTW 10W40 is only rated for up to 104F

I am currently using 10W50 in my Yamaha Bolt, but having difficulty getting 2 more quarts from O'Relllys for next oil change. After that, I plan to run 20W50, since, unlike Ferret, I am not likley to start a ride below 50F.

Oil Comparison ?

 

[Tev62]

I recall the CB1100 [maybe] burning a wee bit of oil, but nothing unusual for ownership of inline-4s of the past. I was never concerned for the '14 CB1100.

As with all my past inline-4s, the oil would darken quickly. This is not the case for twins (except the '76 Yamaha RD400 two-smoker) and singles I have had.

That is no surprise on the CB1100 given that 1 litre of oil gets left behind with every oil change.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

I recall the CB1100 [maybe] burning a wee bit of oil, but nothing unusual for ownership of inline-4s of the past. I was never concerned for the '14 CB1100.

As with all my past inline-4s, the oil would darken quickly. This is not the case for twins (except the '76 Yamaha RD400 two-smoker) and singles I have had.

That is no surprise on the CB1100 given that 1 litre of oil gets left behind with every oil change.

That is no surprise on the CB1100 given that 1 litre of oil gets left behind with every oil change.

 

[Jurlie_imp]

@Jurlie, a couple of points:
- it is one of those subjects, where you get 13 opinions, when asking 12 owners,
- technically, an air-cooled engine usually does (but does not need to) burn more oil than a water-cooled one,
- oil burn is not necessarily steady, or going up steadily with age,
- but most important - and regardless of advice from self proclaimed experts - even high oil burn rates for a long time should not make you worry - unless there is other signs of damage (sparks, etc.). The risk of taking the engine apart, and have it develop other problems afterwards, is just not justified by "high oil burn".

Now tell me
- in which temperature (extremes) do you typically operate ?
- lots of inner city riding, or steady 50mph on country roads ?
- did you recently change oil because it's been 1y from the last change, or because of miles you rode ?

To give you a house-number, I'd say even that if my Honda burned 1 quart every 50 hours of operation, I would not become concerned. After all it's not an aircraft, where an engine failure causes a forced landing or a ditch.

Thanks, those are valid points.
Here the answers:
1. 10C (50F) to 44C (110F) is usual range of operation, as I’m in California.
2. Mostly energetic interstates and country road riding, 4-8k rpm
3. Miles.

I have no problem to add half a quart to a quart oil in the engine occasionally. The bigger problem would be if I needed to check the oil before every bigger day ride (say 300+/- miles) or during the multiday trip where could be 300-800 miles a day. The latter would be especially annoying, as I’d have to take in account places to get oil in addition to gas.

 

[SportsterDoc]

@Jurlie, a couple of points:
- it is one of those subjects, where you get 13 opinions, when asking 12 owners,
- technically, an air-cooled engine usually does (but does not need to) burn more oil than a water-cooled one,
- oil burn is not necessarily steady, or going up steadily with age,
- but most important - and regardless of advice from self proclaimed experts - even high oil burn rates for a long time should not make you worry - unless there is other signs of damage (sparks, etc.). The risk of taking the engine apart, and have it develop other problems afterwards, is just not justified by "high oil burn".

Now tell me
- in which temperature (extremes) do you typically operate ?
- lots of inner city riding, or steady 50mph on country roads ?
- did you recently change oil because it's been 1y from the last change, or because of miles you rode ?

To give you a house-number, I'd say even that if my Honda burned 1 quart every 50 hours of operation, I would not become concerned. After all it's not an aircraft, where an engine failure causes a forced landing or a ditch.

Thanks, those are valid points.
Here the answers:
1. 10C (50F) to 44C (110F) is usual range of operation, as I’m in California.
2. Mostly energetic interstates and country road riding, 4-8k rpm
3. Miles.

I have no problem to add half a quart to a quart oil in the engine occasionally. The bigger problem would be if I needed to check the oil before every bigger day ride (say 300+/- miles) or during the multiday trip where could be 300-800 miles a day. The latter would be especially annoying, as I’d have to take in account places to get oil in addition to gas.

That is the ideal range for 20W50.
104F is beyond the maximum range for 10W40.
50F is generally considered the minimum range for 20W50
If riding colder, then 10W50.

 

[Jurlie_imp]

Using 1/2 quart between changes, you may want to consider 10W50, such as Castrol Power 1 RS.
Riding in the east bay area, 20W50 (easier to find) would work.
BTW 10W40 is only rated for up to 104F

I am currently using 10W50 in my Yamaha Bolt, but having difficulty getting 2 more quarts from O'Relllys for next oil change. After that, I plan to run 20W50, since, unlike Ferret, I am not likley to start a ride below 50F.

Oil Comparison ?

From what you say I conclude it’s better not to operate the bike with 10w50 or 20w50 if it gets colder than 50F (it’s not uncommon in the early morning in the East Bay in colder season), right?

Upd. I see, thanks.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Using 1/2 quart between changes, you may want to consider 10W50, such as Castrol Power 1 RS.
Riding in the east bay area, 20W50 (easier to find) would work.
BTW 10W40 is only rated for up to 104F

I am currently using 10W50 in my Yamaha Bolt, but having difficulty getting 2 more quarts from O'Relllys for next oil change. After that, I plan to run 20W50, since, unlike Ferret, I am not likley to start a ride below 50F.

Oil Comparison ?

From what you say I conclude it’s better not to operate the bike with 10w50 or 20w50 if it gets colder than 50F (it’s not uncommon in the early morning in the East Bay in colder season), right?

Upd. I see, thanks.

50F is minimum recommended temp (sources may vary) for 20W50. If the bike is garaged, then a few degrees lower outside ambient should not be an issue.

10W50 is good below freezing.

This chart is from my 2018 Yamaha Bolt owner's manual, but the temperature range is the same, regardless of application.

 

[Cormanus]

Interesting. Thanks for posting that, Doc.

 

[SportsterDoc]

BRP (CanAm) has their own oil, XPS
For 10W40, XPS states Ambient temperature operating range: -13°F / 104°F (-25°C / 40°C)

 

[Jurlie_imp]

Using 1/2 quart between changes, you may want to consider 10W50, such as Castrol Power 1 RS.
Riding in the east bay area, 20W50 (easier to find) would work.
BTW 10W40 is only rated for up to 104F

I am currently using 10W50 in my Yamaha Bolt, but having difficulty getting 2 more quarts from O'Relllys for next oil change. After that, I plan to run 20W50, since, unlike Ferret, I am not likley to start a ride below 50F.

Oil Comparison ?

From what you say I conclude it’s better not to operate the bike with 10w50 or 20w50 if it gets colder than 50F (it’s not uncommon in the early morning in the East Bay in colder season), right?

Upd. I see, thanks.

50F is minimum recommended temp (sources may vary) for 20W50. If the bike is garaged, then a few degrees lower outside ambient should not be an issue.

10W50 is good below freezing.

This chart is from my 2018 Yamaha Bolt owner's manual, but the temperature range is the same, regardless of application.

I believe the applicability chart may vary between different bike manufacturers, as they can use different alloys for the engine and design different tolerances between the moving parts. But that more regards to the brand new engine. Anyway, for the well worn-in engine it shouldn’t be an issue.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Using 1/2 quart between changes, you may want to consider 10W50, such as Castrol Power 1 RS.
Riding in the east bay area, 20W50 (easier to find) would work.
BTW 10W40 is only rated for up to 104F

I am currently using 10W50 in my Yamaha Bolt, but having difficulty getting 2 more quarts from O'Relllys for next oil change. After that, I plan to run 20W50, since, unlike Ferret, I am not likley to start a ride below 50F.

Oil Comparison ?

From what you say I conclude it’s better not to operate the bike with 10w50 or 20w50 if it gets colder than 50F (it’s not uncommon in the early morning in the East Bay in colder season), right?

Upd. I see, thanks.

50F is minimum recommended temp (sources may vary) for 20W50. If the bike is garaged, then a few degrees lower outside ambient should not be an issue.

10W50 is good below freezing.

This chart is from my 2018 Yamaha Bolt owner's manual, but the temperature range is the same, regardless of application.

I believe the applicability chart may vary between different bike manufacturers, as they can use different alloys for the engine and design different tolerances between the moving parts. But that more regards to the brand new engine. Anyway, for the well worn-in engine it shouldn’t be an issue.

A manufacturer may recommend different viscosity ranges as appropriate for engine tolerances (or striving for more fuel economy to meet EPA standards). For example, both of my Triumphs, air cooled and watercooled specified 20W50.

However the Yamaha chart is a decent guide for viscosity versus temperature ranges.

Moto Guzzi recommended 10w60 for the V7II, which held only 2 liters, but did very well in southern Nevada
The ambient indicated in the photo is 116F at 4 PM on June 21, 2017

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

BRP (CanAm) has their own oil, XPS
For 10W40, XPS states Ambient temperature operating range: -13°F / 104°F (-25°C / 40°C)

I can attest 10W40 in the CB1100 will operate normally at air ambient -25C without issue. It may chug a wee bit more at stone-cold start-up, but it will purr after the oil starvation scraping phase has been quenched with ice-cold oil.

Ultimately I ended up using 5W40 synthetic in the CB1100 lump.

 

[Nachodaddy]

As our temperature reached a record 115F today and rarely goes below 40, I think 30W50 will work in my bike. But I have 10W40 in it now and I'm not running it, so not changing it. I suspect the engineers at Honda built in a little leeway for us on this subject.

 

[j3gq_imp]

Still assuming that your engine is fine, I think it is "a possibility" that your oil burn comes from borderline too high temps (for that particular oil) and relatively high rpm/s (compared to many riders taking it a little more easy). Why would this be ? A tiny amount of oil gets past the piston rings on every revolution. Two times as many revolutions per mile means two times as many times that amount. Add to this the almost too thin oil (viscosity at high temps, outside temps plus higher engine temps), not only does it no longer do its best job cooling the engine and lubricating it, it also has it slightly easier to get past the piston rings. Added all up, this could explain your data. Try different oil as proposed above, and take it a little easier on the throttle when the thermometer goes past 100F. A few months should show the difference.

 

[1973cb750]

i have used with success lucas upper cylinder lube to help valve guides stay lubed with todays dry gas valve guides and seal need all the help they can get maybe worth a try

 

[Jurlie_imp]

Thanks guys for the recommendations. Now, before the summer season I've put 10W50 Motul 7100 in it. Let's see how it goes thru summer. Now sure, I'll put my usual 4k miles during it, as I got yet another toy recently...