GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
I think HD threw something together back in the late 70's or probably the early 80's to address a similar market issue and had a similar failing experience - possibly worse because those bikes were lemons.
HARLEY DAVIDSON V-Rod
- Thread starter peterbaron
- Start date
peterbaron
Road warrior
Thread starter
Has HD ever been of a high quality like Japanese bikes??
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
IMHO, HD holds the high bar for top-shelf finishes. For production bikes, the hardware and surfaces are sweet. I really cannot think of another manufacturer who cares that much in the details. Of course, you will pay for this. If that and the art of noise is your thing, then there is a HD for you.peterbaron_imp said:
In terms of performance, comfort, meh, that is much in the eye of the owner. Take-off torque is there; an erotic two seconds of spurt and the thrill is gone. I personally find the rides hard.
The CB1100 fit 'n' finish is the highest that I can recall for this class of Honda. Sure, the Gold Wing is top shelf, but the CB is very good. And we all know there is more: Handling, take-off, luxurious cruising, passing, economy, low environmental impact, low cost-of-ownership, dependability, and so on.
Moto Guzzi finish quality might be about equivalent to this Honda. But things drop off from there: Cost-of-ownership, dependability, some performance inefficiencies, and etc.
I think "quality" will vary by the eye of the owner. Let some live the fantasy.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Moto Guzzi finish quality > Moto Guzzi build quality.
cblais19_imp
Running like a top
I have a V7 II sitting in the garage beside my DLX. It’s really quite a decent little bike, but the fit and finish is nowhere near as nice as the CB. Does have a nice shaft drive though. Build quality on the newer v7s is quite solid. Minimal or no issues for the owners I’ve seen - and super simple maintenance.
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
You had to bring up shaft ...cblais19_imp said:
Guzzis have some wonderful attributes.
cblais19_imp
Running like a top
Yup, the CARC is pretty great.
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
I enjoyed mine for 7,000 miles in about 6 months, but fueling was annoying.LongRanger_imp said:
https://image.ibb.co/eofZxm/2016_Moto_Guzzi_V7_II_Stone.jpg
Ride a Sportster 1200 SportGoldOxide_imp said:
Stage 1 = 75 ft lbs of torque
110 MPH comes quick in the first 4 gears
I wore the rear tire slick in 3 months
http://sportsterpedia.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/sportster_history:2002_xl1200s.jpg
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
I enjoyed mine for 7,000 miles in about 6 months, but fueling was annoying.SportsterDoc_imp said:
https://image.ibb.co/eofZxm/2016_Moto_Guzzi_V7_II_Stone.jpg
The V7 is indeed a classy, solid feel, great looking ride.
Your HD has nice looks too - so very HD.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
I'm not knocking Moto Guzzi -- I owned two V7's and thought they were endearing bikes, but they looked better than they were built. If it wasn't for the dismal dealership situation in the U.S., I'd probably still own one of them and not my DLX.
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
Endearing is a good word choice!LongRanger_imp said:
I was in love when I first got it, then the cold nature of warm starts wore on me and the Las Vegas dealership changed owners from good guy brothers to an accountant with zero manners. This was my report on the Sportster forum:
2016 Moto Guzzi V7 II Stone
540 mile / 17 day report:
1. Love the low end torque...and I am already accustomed to H-D Sportsters.
2. Love the 5 1/2 gallon fuel tank
3. Love the light weight (436#)
4. Love accessibility for checking spark plugs
5. Love the black powder coated alloy wheels (does not show grime and I really appreciate tubeless tires)
6. Love key access to seat removal (two bolts on Bonneville and one bolt on Sportsters)
7. Love the seat height...not too low...not to high
8. Love the storage under the seat for a small tool bag, spare fuses, spare spark plugs, 6x9 zip lock bag of schematics, etc.
9. Love readability of the gauges...although the numbers could be a tad bigger for 70 year old eyes
10. Love the ground clearance and lean angle capabilities
11. Love the shaft drive
12. Air filter (AP8104924) is inexpensive at $8 - $9
13. Spark plugs (NGK CPR8EB-9) can be ordered from O'Reilly's for $4.49 each
14. Yuasa YTX14-BS battery equivalent is stocked at my local O'Reillys (ETX14), a factory filled AGM for $102.99
15. The 3 relays (headlight on after startup, start and injectors) are the same part number (AP8224462) and are only about $7
16. Appreciate easy access to air filter, fuses and battery, although 3 relays are under the fuel tank
17. Most sensors (and injectors) are easy access (right head temp, oil pressure switch, engine RPM, etc), but some are not (neutral switch, TPS, coils)
18. Seat has been comfortable for up 6 hour days, thus far; whereas both Sportsters and Bonneville seat required upgrades for more than 50 miles. Can better evaluate after a 300+ mile, 5 hour+ run to Stove Pipe Wells in Death Valley, planned for the end of March.
19. This is the first bike which may remain absolutely stock, other than a Dart Marlin flyscreen, removal of decals and stickers and LED tail/stop 1157. (I did add small side cases)
https://image.ibb.co/eLcMtk/left.jpg
20. Only negatives are:
Major
A. the lean mixture, both cold start (likes 2 minutes +) and even after a "warm" start after only a few minutes shutdown, which likes almost a full minute after re-start.
Minor
B. a few things are crowded under the tank/between the heads (throttle body, coil, etc.)
A ECM program update made the warm starts not quite as bad, but still very annoying.
peterbaron
Road warrior
Thread starter
LR, are you trying to tell all members that you've gotten your lovely CB by mistake?LongRanger_imp said:
:
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Doc, I'm surprised you didn't mention the harsh rear suspension. Easily remedied but a common V7 complaint.
PB, not at all. My CB is awesome. But my growing frustration with MG parts and service finally pushed me to look elsewhere because I knew it couldn't be a sustainable relationship. I always fancied the DLX. It was a no-brainier.
PB, not at all. My CB is awesome. But my growing frustration with MG parts and service finally pushed me to look elsewhere because I knew it couldn't be a sustainable relationship. I always fancied the DLX. It was a no-brainier.
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
I had not yet taken it to Clarkdale, AZ, about a 700 mile roundtrip.LongRanger_imp said:
The rough asphalt on 89A from Ash Fork to Chino Valley was a harsh ride, but most of the time it was not really an issue. It cornered very well going over Mingus Mountain on 89a from Prescott through Jerome.
It did develop a no-idle-without-throttle issue going through Jerome, which made it awkward giving rides to grandkids, but that went away, after sustained high speeds on I40.
I did report it as being harsh on the wildguzzi forum, but that was more of a side comment: V7 series- What did you change/add from original and why?
...and this forum, last March: CB1100EX for a new rider? (my daughter)
I had zero issues with either Sportsters, other than dealer induced:
Ventura H-D failed to lube clutch cable and it went dry on a remote canyon ride. Only one of two "first services" I paid (wasted) $ on. They spent time checking the obvious (horn and lights work, etc) but did not follow the H-D check list.
The other "first service" was on the M-G and I thought it may have been worth the $ for the ECM program upgrade. It helped, but not enough.
Simi H-D changed tires (Dunlop soft K-591 wore quick), drove out the rear axle and did not replace wheel bearings after subjecting them to impact side load. Bearings almost seized the next day on freeway somewhere in Anaheim. Also, I rode only a block before rattling alerted me to the front wheel axle pinch bolt being loose. General manager and I had a long talk. Later he bought the dealership, which had been owned by Ventura H-D and I heard that the shop vastly improved thereafter.
Both the new 2003 XLH883 and used 2002 XL1200 Sport were trouble free at 1,000 miles per month. Long stroke motors not only have good torque, but longer burn time = good mileage. The 1200 (dual plug heads, w grind cams) got 59 MPG before I rejetted it.
Both ran good after rejetting and not bad before rejetting. Rejetting mainly lowered the oil temp at sustained WOT pulling long grades. The Keihin CV40 carb was easy access.
Great suspension, adjustable front and rear on the 1200 Sport. Probably saved my life coming up to the top of Balcomb Canyon to a blind very sharp curve.
Google Maps
Picture hitting better than 90 MPH south on the relative straightaway, slowing to 60-70 MPH on the left sweeping turn, cranking the throttle and then recognizing, at the last moment, that the blind right is almost 90 degrees. No warning that I recall southbound, but from the other direction is is labeled 10 MPH!
Google Maps
Google Maps
Before the areas of the super low Sportsters, it had the lean angle to lean really low and great suspension, as well as being a very narrow 1200cc. I do not know my speed, but I really thought it was not going to negotiate that turn.
These were the last two years of lighter weight non-rubber mounted motors (2004 up) and carbs were replaced with EFI in 2007.
As much as some forum members feel the need to bash H-D or criticize the Vrod, I very much liked my Sportsters and would have bought another, but as with many things I like, my preferences were discontinued.
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
(+1) on the dealer situation.LongRanger_imp said:
I didn't know they had questionable reliability or sustainability. I thought those years were behind them some ten or more years ago. Mind you, back then the dealerships were more abound.
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
Triumph and Moto Guzzi both have issues keeping dealers. If the CB1100 were not available, I might have gone back to Triumph (my 2012 Bonneville was faultless), but the Las Vegas dealer is the same as for Moto Guzzi and same owners for BMW. At that point, my options were Yamaha or Honda.GoldOxide_imp said:
And I already pursued the Yamaha option before getting the Moto Guzzi
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php...334&page=8
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Still fortunately for us on north shore Lake Ontario, there are many Triumph dealers. In fact, all my gear is Triumph, but I don't own a Triumph because the CB came along.
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
Triumph has VERY good build quality.
865 cc had a lot of low end torque and pulled strong throughout the RPM range.
67 HP @ 7500, 50 ft lbs at 5800 and 495#, but it did feel cross wind gusts.
It was 112 and climbing on the Extraterrestrial Highway, wind calm, when a sudden gust from the north blew me from the middle of the W/B land to the middle of the E/B lane.
When they introduced EFI, there were some lean issues, which is why I asked the dealer to install the richer Arrow tune, but it may have been solved by then.
The dealer, in Simi Valley, did not charge for that.
When I learned no tool kit, they put one together for me.
Very much respect for that dealership.
If I were to get another Triumph, I would gladly drive 300 miles to get it and hope no service needed in Las Vegas.
You guys are a bad influence, here I am talking about another bike...
865 cc had a lot of low end torque and pulled strong throughout the RPM range.
67 HP @ 7500, 50 ft lbs at 5800 and 495#, but it did feel cross wind gusts.
It was 112 and climbing on the Extraterrestrial Highway, wind calm, when a sudden gust from the north blew me from the middle of the W/B land to the middle of the E/B lane.
When they introduced EFI, there were some lean issues, which is why I asked the dealer to install the richer Arrow tune, but it may have been solved by then.
The dealer, in Simi Valley, did not charge for that.
When I learned no tool kit, they put one together for me.
Very much respect for that dealership.
If I were to get another Triumph, I would gladly drive 300 miles to get it and hope no service needed in Las Vegas.
You guys are a bad influence, here I am talking about another bike...
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Sorry Sportster Doc.SportsterDoc_imp said:
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Most of us can probably point to a bad influence for getting us started in motorcycling.
Doc, I hope someday, somehow, you're able to get back on the road. You can blame all of us.
Doc, I hope someday, somehow, you're able to get back on the road. You can blame all of us.
