Gear shift indicator stuck on 4

[pekingduck]

There are 2 similar but unrelated failures in this thread.

The first is bflint's complaint about the indicator displaying gear position 4 all the time, which is likely a fault in the gear position switch causing it not to rotate.

The second is E11evenhunnit's complaint that the neutral light does not come on AND the gear position indicator show ( - ). Both are controlled by the rotation of the shift drum, through 2 different switches, doing 2 different functions, that occur intermittently but simultaneously.

This tells me the shift drum is not returning to the neutral position or to a positive gear position. This can be caused by an incomplete shift, or binding in the shift lever pivot bolt, a very easy thing to check.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Pekingduck is correct of course.

Did I mix up threads? Someone mentioned the bike wouldn’t start unless the sidestand was up.

 

[pekingduck]

Thinking a bit more about E11evenhunnit's complaint, it occurs on a cold start. Maybe he is encountering this scenario:

Comes to a stop and shuts off the engine in neutral, puts the kickstand down, and then puts it in gear so it won't roll. But when the engine is stopped, it's possible it doesn't snick fully into 1st gear, hence no neutral light, and a ( - ) to indicate it's in between gears.

If that's the case, shut the engine off in gear to avoid the problem.

 

[E11even_Hunnit]

Thinking a bit more about E11evenhunnit's complaint, it occurs on a cold start. Maybe he is encountering this scenario:

Comes to a stop and shuts off the engine in neutral, puts the kickstand down, and then puts it in gear so it won't roll. But when the engine is stopped, it's possible it doesn't snick fully into 1st gear, hence no neutral light, and a ( - ) to indicate it's in between gears.

If that's the case, shut the engine off in gear to avoid the problem.

Good thinking outside the box but not quite... As this happens with more and more frequency(happened an hr ago while leaving work) I have decided to take a video for reference... stay tuned folks

 

[pekingduck]

Thinking a bit more about E11evenhunnit's complaint, it occurs on a cold start. Maybe he is encountering this scenario:

Comes to a stop and shuts off the engine in neutral, puts the kickstand down, and then puts it in gear so it won't roll. But when the engine is stopped, it's possible it doesn't snick fully into 1st gear, hence no neutral light, and a ( - ) to indicate it's in between gears.

If that's the case, shut the engine off in gear to avoid the problem.

Good thinking outside the box but not quite... As this happens with more and more frequency(happened an hr ago while leaving work) I have decided to take a video for reference... stay tuned folks

Good thinking outside the box but not quite... As this happens with more and more frequency(happened an hr ago while leaving work) I have decided to take a video for reference... stay tuned folks
Can we assume that it would start with the clutch lever pulled in?

 

[E11even_Hunnit]

Thinking a bit more about E11evenhunnit's complaint, it occurs on a cold start. Maybe he is encountering this scenario:

Comes to a stop and shuts off the engine in neutral, puts the kickstand down, and then puts it in gear so it won't roll. But when the engine is stopped, it's possible it doesn't snick fully into 1st gear, hence no neutral light, and a ( - ) to indicate it's in between gears.

If that's the case, shut the engine off in gear to avoid the problem.

Good thinking outside the box but not quite... As this happens with more and more frequency(happened an hr ago while leaving work) I have decided to take a video for reference... stay tuned folks

Good thinking outside the box but not quite... As this happens with more and more frequency(happened an hr ago while leaving work) I have decided to take a video for reference... stay tuned folks
Can we assume that it would start with the clutch lever pulled in?

Good thinking outside the box but not quite... As this happens with more and more frequency(happened an hr ago while leaving work) I have decided to take a video for reference... stay tuned folks
Can we assume that it would start with the clutch lever pulled in?
Yes and no, I carefully cranked it without having the clutch lever pulled(kickstand down and then up) knowing there was a slight possibility that it was in gear and the bike would move forward

Kickstand goes up...starts right up and the second the engine is running the green N light on the tach comes on... or at least this happened after work today

I get that probably not every situation I've encountered has been the exact same.
For context, the very first time I encountered this irregularity went something like this:

7AM & 40° outside - I have a routine of turning the bike on as soon as I get to it before I put on my lid and gloves and find a music playlist on my phone before I clip on the bike and take off(all in efforts to give it at least some time to warm up)

1.) I pop the key in the ignition, wait a sec for tach needles(and fuel pump to cycle)
2.) then make sure green N light is on before I crank, by either finding it or because it's already there(all while the bike is still on the stand)
3.) Bike cranks, starts, then maybe 2 seconds into engine running it shuts off.
Initial thoughts are fuel, then I realize there's 1/2 tank left...then I think maybe battery is starting to act funny and on it's way out, but then when I got it on neutral and cranked it, It didn't seem sluggish...It left me thinking a bit but I just took off as I was running a bit late for work and didn't think much of it

Here I am 1 month later roughly, with this happening more frequently than I'd like, and even during not-so-cold temps.

I strongly believe this right here just about sums it up though

Got a PM from Doc which says in part

The switch 35759-MGC-N21 for 2014 model is suspect or the activating mechanism may have crud in it.

Glad to see popgun on it.

I have promised myself to not log onto any forum after this month.

 

[Cormanus]

Got a PM from Doc which says in part

The switch 35759-MGC-N21 for 2014 model is suspect or the activating mechanism may have crud in it.

Glad to see popgun on it.

I have promised myself to not log onto any forum after this month.

I hope that doesn’t mean we will never see Sportster Doc again.

 

[Bheezy27403_imp]

Agreed. His knowledge and experience would be missed.

 

[pekingduck]

Re: E11evenhunnit's complaint:

7AM & 40° outside - I have a routine of turning the bike on as soon as I get to it before I put on my lid and gloves and find a music playlist on my phone before I clip on the bike and take off(all in efforts to give it at least some time to warm up)

1.) I pop the key in the ignition, wait a sec for tach needles (and fuel pump to cycle)
2.) then make sure green N light is on before I crank, by either finding it or because it's already there(all while the bike is still on the stand)
3.) Bike cranks, starts, then maybe 2 seconds into engine running it shuts off.
Initial thoughts are fuel, then I realize there's 1/2 tank left...then I think maybe battery is starting to act funny and on it's way out, but then when I got it on neutral and cranked it, It didn't seem sluggish...It left me thinking a bit but I just took off as I was running a bit late for work and didn't think much of it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This scenario is different from the no neutral light/gear display ( - ) described earlier. It is one where the engine starts willingly, but dies after a few seconds, but unrelated to what's happening on the dash.
I always suspect battery terminal tightness or the battery itself. If it's the original battery, it's 6 years old. The battery on my 2013 went bad in 4-1/2 years even though it lived on a Battery Tender. (Symptom on my battery was that it wouldn't crank/restart warm, but easily bump-started.)

 

[max]

3.) Bike cranks, starts, then maybe 2 seconds into engine running it shuts off.
Initial thoughts are fuel, then I realize there's 1/2 tank left...then I think maybe battery is starting to act funny and on it's way out, but then when I got it on neutral and cranked it, It didn't seem sluggish...It left me thinking a bit but I just took off as I was running a bit late for work and didn't think much of it


.....................When the engine shuts off after 2 seconds is the green neutral light still on?

( You're doing a stellar job as usual PD ! )

 

[E11even_Hunnit]

Re: E11evenhunnit's complaint:

7AM & 40° outside - I have a routine of turning the bike on as soon as I get to it before I put on my lid and gloves and find a music playlist on my phone before I clip on the bike and take off(all in efforts to give it at least some time to warm up)

1.) I pop the key in the ignition, wait a sec for tach needles (and fuel pump to cycle)
2.) then make sure green N light is on before I crank, by either finding it or because it's already there(all while the bike is still on the stand)
3.) Bike cranks, starts, then maybe 2 seconds into engine running it shuts off.
Initial thoughts are fuel, then I realize there's 1/2 tank left...then I think maybe battery is starting to act funny and on it's way out, but then when I got it on neutral and cranked it, It didn't seem sluggish...It left me thinking a bit but I just took off as I was running a bit late for work and didn't think much of it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This scenario is different from the no neutral light/gear display ( - ) described earlier. It is one where the engine starts willingly, but dies after a few seconds, but unrelated to what's happening on the dash.
I always suspect battery terminal tightness or the battery itself. If it's the original battery, it's 6 years old. The battery on my 2013 went bad in 4-1/2 years even though it lived on a Battery Tender. (Symptom on my battery was that it wouldn't crank/restart warm, but easily bump-started.)

I get why you'd think the battery is suspect, and while I'm not trying to defend it, I have had no reason to believe it's in bad condition given the overall functioning of the electronics without issue whatsoever. I'm no battery guru, but I have had batteries go bad in other bikes I've owned over the years, and there is usually symptoms associated with a dying battery, none of which I've seen on the CB. That being said, It's definitely in my plans to go Ballistic/Shorai sometime in the near future, but not because this is the underlying cause of my current situation

3.) Bike cranks, starts, then maybe 2 seconds into engine running it shuts off.
Initial thoughts are fuel, then I realize there's 1/2 tank left...then I think maybe battery is starting to act funny and on it's way out, but then when I got it on neutral and cranked it, It didn't seem sluggish...It left me thinking a bit but I just took off as I was running a bit late for work and didn't think much of it


.....................When the engine shuts off after 2 seconds is the green neutral light still on?

( You're doing a stellar job as usual PD ! )

It wasn't. and that's how I now know that initial hiccup is related to the now reoccurring issue.
The bike also didn't move an inch for those who might think it somehow actually ticked itself into gear.

I presume the sensor(s) sensed this had taken place hence the shutoff but it didn't physically happen



Anywho, bike did it again this morning as it's becoming more and more normal. I did take a clip for you all to see, will post it sometime today since I'm currently @ work

 

[bflint]

My six speed 2014 CB1100 DLX just started acting up today when getting on freeway. Came off the SoCal on ramp in 4th and ran mph up to 70 (about 500o rpm) and then shifted into 5th then 6th. However gear shift indicator is stuck on 4. Turned everything off. Started up but still show 4 no matter what gear. Refueled and reset odom hoping this might do something …. but still shows 4. Any thoughts …. I have shop manual so I will look for something there also. Cheers ….

Thanks everyone for feedback. Per Mr PeekingDuck, I assume my problem is the rotary switch ($90). Was going to try self service, but also need valve check/adjustment done so will also have switch checked/replaced at same time this weekend at El Cajon Motoworld.

 

[the Ferret]

keep us informed

 

[pekingduck]

My six speed 2014 CB1100 DLX just started acting up today when getting on freeway. Came off the SoCal on ramp in 4th and ran mph up to 70 (about 500o rpm) and then shifted into 5th then 6th. However gear shift indicator is stuck on 4. Turned everything off. Started up but still show 4 no matter what gear. Refueled and reset odom hoping this might do something …. but still shows 4. Any thoughts …. I have shop manual so I will look for something there also. Cheers ….

Thanks everyone for feedback. Per Mr PeekingDuck, I assume my problem is the rotary switch ($90). Was going to try self service, but also need valve check/adjustment done so will also have switch checked/replaced at same time this weekend at El Cajon Motoworld.

Thanks everyone for feedback. Per Mr PeekingDuck, I assume my problem is the rotary switch ($90). Was going to try self service, but also need valve check/adjustment done so will also have switch checked/replaced at same time this weekend at El Cajon Motoworld.
It appears that the switch is not being turning since it displays the same gear '4' while the shift drum rotates. The gear indicator display is simply an LCD display that has no memory. If the wire for 4th gear was pinched, it would display 4 all the time but would also light the segments for the other gears as the bike was shifted. That's why I don't think it is an electrical fault.

There are 2 bolts that hold the switch in place. If they have backed off for some reason, and the switch backed out, that also could also cause it. Unfortunately, dealer techs hate going in to repair something twice - likely they will order the part and install it regardless if it just came loose or is easily repairable.

To access it, you would pull the shift linkage off the shaft and remove the countershaft cover. It should be forward of the shift shaft. If the switch is replaced, you are entitled to the old part. I'm really curious on what the cause and the cure is, and maybe a picture of the broken part or fault. Good luck.

 

[bflint]

The gear position switch is a simple rotary switch with 6 contacts inside. It is mechanically rotated by the gear shift drum. If it displays the same gear position (4) as you shift normally, the switch is simply not turning. It is not a wiring problem or a short or open.

It relies on a little roll pin pressed perpendicularly into the rotating shaft of the switch, which aligns with a slot in the end of the shift shaft. When the switch is installed at the factory, it must be aligned by eye before bolting it in place. It is easy to get it miss-aligned, which could bend or break the roll pin.

The switch is underneath the sprocket cover.

Mr PeekingDuck … you hit it on the nose. Mechanic said the roll pin loosened and fell out to the bottom of the case. They ordered a new switch which I am ok with

 

[pekingduck]

The gear position switch is a simple rotary switch with 6 contacts inside. It is mechanically rotated by the gear shift drum. If it displays the same gear position (4) as you shift normally, the switch is simply not turning. It is not a wiring problem or a short or open.

It relies on a little roll pin pressed perpendicularly into the rotating shaft of the switch, which aligns with a slot in the end of the shift shaft. When the switch is installed at the factory, it must be aligned by eye before bolting it in place. It is easy to get it miss-aligned, which could bend or break the roll pin.

The switch is underneath the sprocket cover.

Mr PeekingDuck … you hit it on the nose. Mechanic said the roll pin loosened and fell out to the bottom of the case. They ordered a new switch which I am ok with

Mr PeekingDuck … you hit it on the nose. Mechanic said the roll pin loosened and fell out to the bottom of the case. They ordered a new switch which I am ok with
That's good news, an easy fix. The little roll pin fell to the bottom of the case somewhere, and surrounded by the relatively thick oil, will live its life stuck like glue in a little crevice, out of the way. It won't move when you hit a bunch of bumps, won't get into the oil system, and can't get into the gears.

 

[the Ferret]

Awesome! Glad it was something simple and not too expensive.

 

[Obleo]

Awesome guys on here,very smart.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Congrats PekingDuck et BFlint!

 

[pekingduck]

Any word back from E11evenhunnit on his complaint?