Front suspension?

[CIP57_imp]

It seems there's binding in the triples, it's a very easy adjustment. I don't have my shop manual so we need someone to chime in here. You need to loosen the triple to relax the forks and get them back into alignment. If i remember correctly you also have to loosen the bolts on the wheel.

I have a shop manual, but it's over at my other garage, so can't refer to it right away. If you have a minute, would you mind explaining for the suspension illiterate (i.e., myself) the relationship between the binding you're talking about and the fork compression?

I have a shop manual, but it's over at my other garage, so can't refer to it right away. If you have a minute, would you mind explaining for the suspension illiterate (i.e., myself) the relationship between the binding you're talking about and the fork compression?
Sure, when the bike comes from the factory both fork tubes are in alignment through the upper and lower (brackets) triple trees. My guess is that when the bike was dropped against the wall one of the two fork tubes twisted therefore causing a binding. When this happens they work against themselves and would cause the problem your having. You just need to relax the front end ( loosen everything up )and with compression strokes like you just did will put the front end back into alignment.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

Interesting...thanks for the explanation. I'm relieved that it's just a problem with my bike, and not a characteristic of the CB in general! I'll grab my shop manual a bit later and have a look.

 

[CIP57_imp]

Put bike on the center-stand. Loosen the lower triple on both sides (see photo) and the two bolts (see photo ) both sides. I would also loosen the axle bolt two turns not sure if this is necessary. Take the bike off center-stand and with force compress the shocks. See if the reading now comes closer to ferrets at about 2 3/4 with compression backed out to four lines showing. If all is well put bike back on center-stand tighten everything up with a torque wrench to spec. I believe you tighten all the bolts before the axle bolt, refer to manual.

 

[Red Mist_imp]

Remember to work safely and don't do anything beyond your skill level. Leave those jobs to a qualified mechanic!

That said (you've been warned), the quick and dirty way is to leave the top triple clamp bolts torqued, and then (after lifting the front of the bike off the ground with a suitable stand or jack) to loosen the front axle and lower pinch bolts on the triple clamps. This will hopefully relieve any gross tension but it's not really doing it up right.

To really be sure everything is as it should be, you should disassemble the entire front fork assembly. A few of us have done this, which is necessary in order to change the fork oil. By doing the whole shebang you're ensuring it's right.

You'd basically be removing the handlebars and front wheel, along with the brake calipers, to have both fork tubes unencumbered. You'll need a good stand or jack to lift the front end free of the floor, of course. Once both tubes are freed up, you'll be wanting to loosen the bolts on the upper and lower triple clamps (so named because they clamp the two fork tubes to the steering stem, 1,2,3). Slide each fork out of its side of the clamp and inspect it, clean it, and reinstall. Make sure when you slide it back into the clamps that it slides freely with no binding. Also be certain to get those forks aligned to the same height as they were, so take note of this by inspecting the top of the triples for an indexing reference before you remove them.

Reassemble by indexing the fork tube to the correct height, with enough torque on the bolts to hold it in place as you fine-tune it (a buddy can be helpful here). Then torque those pinch bolts to the correct specification (don't guess on this!). Get the specs from your dealer or maybe someone here has 'em.

Reinstall the front wheel and brake calipers. You'll need four new caliper bolts, that will run ya about 20 bucks, but better do it the right way.

You do this right, that front end should be stiction-free and nice and smooth. Set your preload and you should be good to go.

 

[lola_imp]

preload does not change fork travel. that is why you still have the same findings.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

So it sounds to me like CIP57 is describing basically the same "quick and dirty" method you discuss, Red Mist--right?

I'm inclined to go the full monty and take it all apart. That said, I need to ponder whether I really want to attempt it myself. I'm reasonably mechanically inclined, and have a fair bit of experience working on engines and carbs, but suspension stuff is uncharted territory.

Thanks for the detailed info, by the way.

 

[CIP57_imp]

Red Mist is correct, do not touch the upper triple unless you have the equipment and knowledge to disassemble the front end, having said that try the so called dirty way i have explained. If the bike just leaned over in the garage it my solve your problem. They usually don't move in the upper triple unless something is bent.

 

[Red Mist_imp]

So it sounds to me like CIP57 is describing basically the same "quick and dirty" method you discuss, Red Mist--right?

I'm inclined to go the full monty and take it all apart. That said, I need to ponder whether I really want to attempt it myself. I'm reasonably mechanically inclined, and have a fair bit of experience working on engines and carbs, but suspension stuff is uncharted territory.

Thanks for the detailed info, by the way.

Right!:beerchug:

 

[air charlie_imp]

You might want to try MORE. preload. When the forks settle too much under your weight the forks ride to low and the compression valving from the fork fluid will make the forks feel harsh. Try increasing the preload to the second mark and see if that helps. We are about the same weight and that has worked for me.

 

[the Ferret]

Ran over to my brothers to watch the MotoGP race, but while driving I remember there was something different about my 12 DLX's forks than the 13s forks. Um, springs and fluid levels maybe?

wonder if someone with another 13 could check for Pechorin.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

Well, I went ahead and tried the "quick and dirty" method, and I don't really think it changed anything. I saw slightly more compression of the forks (up to about 2 1/4" from 2" even), but I may have been using more force than I was this morning...and anyway, that figure didn't change at all when I adjusted the preload to various settings (unlike Ferret's, which got considerably more compression as he decreased(?) the preload). I wasn't able to test ride to see if there was any change in feel.

Other data points: The fork compression with me just sitting on the bike remained the same as before (about 1 3/8") regardless of the preload setting (this was significantly higher than Ferret's reading).

So...unless you guys have other ideas, I think I'll test ride it next time there's a break in the weather and see if anything's different (I kinda doubt it). Meantime, I'll spend some quality time with the shop manual and decide if I want to tackle this job myself or take it to the pros. The bike should still be in warranty...but am I wrong to assume that something like this probably wouldn't be covered?

Lastly...what do you think about the idea that rather than binding in the triple clamps, it's just an issue of too much fluid in the forks?

 

[CIP57_imp]

Well, I went ahead and tried the "quick and dirty" method, and I don't really think it changed anything. I saw slightly more compression of the forks (up to about 2 1/4" from 2" even), but I may have been using more force than I was this morning...and anyway, that figure didn't change at all when I adjusted the preload to various settings (unlike Ferret's, which got considerably more compression as he decreased(?) the preload). I wasn't able to test ride to see if there was any change in feel.

Other data points: The fork compression with me just sitting on the bike remained the same as before (about 1 3/8") regardless of the preload setting (this was significantly higher than Ferret's reading).

So...unless you guys have other ideas, I think I'll test ride it next time there's a break in the weather and see if anything's different (I kinda doubt it). Meantime, I'll spend some quality time with the shop manual and decide if I want to tackle this job myself or take it to the pros. The bike should still be in warranty...but am I wrong to assume that something like this probably wouldn't be covered?

Lastly...what do you think about the idea that rather than binding in the triple clamps, it's just an issue of too much fluid in the forks?

P,

You should be getting more travel. Sitting on the bike to compressing the shocks is a mere 3/4", I can see why it would be harsh. I doubt the original owner fooled with the hydraulics ( fluids ) but you never know. I'm out of ideas without breaking down the front end.

 

[Guth_imp]

If the forks have been opened, the wrong fluid height would cause this also.

As Ack mentioned, it sounds like there might be too much fork oil installed. This would allow the initial sag to occur when sitting on the bike, but once you've reached maximum compression for the amount of oil in the tubes, I don't believe that it's going to give any more. The end result would be a very small amount of travel left to absorb bumps and such.

 

[Cormanus]

As always on this forum, I'm learning lots. I look forward to pechorin solving the problem and telling us what it was.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

If the forks have been opened, the wrong fluid height would cause this also.

As Ack mentioned, it sounds like there might be too much fork oil installed. This would allow the initial sag to occur when sitting on the bike, but once you've reached maximum compression for the amount of oil in the tubes, I don't believe that it's going to give any more. The end result would be a very small amount of travel left to absorb bumps and such.

Reading the service manual, it would appear that simply removing the forks and checking/correcting the fluid level is a (relatively) simple procedure. And if I'm understanding correctly what the others have said, taking the forks out of the triple clamps entirely ought to resolve any potential binding issues...so I'm thinking that's what I'll try.

 

[Barkingshins_imp]

If the forks have been opened, the wrong fluid height would cause this also.

As Ack mentioned, it sounds like there might be too much fork oil installed. This would allow the initial sag to occur when sitting on the bike, but once you've reached maximum compression for the amount of oil in the tubes, I don't believe that it's going to give any more. The end result would be a very small amount of travel left to absorb bumps and such.

Reading the service manual, it would appear that simply removing the forks and checking/correcting the fluid level is a (relatively) simple procedure. And if I'm understanding correctly what the others have said, taking the forks out of the triple clamps entirely ought to resolve any potential binding issues...so I'm thinking that's what I'll try.

Reading the service manual, it would appear that simply removing the forks and checking/correcting the fluid level is a (relatively) simple procedure. And if I'm understanding correctly what the others have said, taking the forks out of the triple clamps entirely ought to resolve any potential binding issues...so I'm thinking that's what I'll try.
You have to remove the forks from the triple tree to adjust fluid level huh? Is that pretty typical? I don't have to with my old KZ. You just jack the front wheel off the ground, remove the top bolt and measure the distance from the top of the inner tube to the oil level. Then you just add or drain oil till your measurement is at spec.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

If the forks have been opened, the wrong fluid height would cause this also.

As Ack mentioned, it sounds like there might be too much fork oil installed. This would allow the initial sag to occur when sitting on the bike, but once you've reached maximum compression for the amount of oil in the tubes, I don't believe that it's going to give any more. The end result would be a very small amount of travel left to absorb bumps and such.

Reading the service manual, it would appear that simply removing the forks and checking/correcting the fluid level is a (relatively) simple procedure. And if I'm understanding correctly what the others have said, taking the forks out of the triple clamps entirely ought to resolve any potential binding issues...so I'm thinking that's what I'll try.

Reading the service manual, it would appear that simply removing the forks and checking/correcting the fluid level is a (relatively) simple procedure. And if I'm understanding correctly what the others have said, taking the forks out of the triple clamps entirely ought to resolve any potential binding issues...so I'm thinking that's what I'll try.
You have to remove the forks from the triple tree to adjust fluid level huh? Is that pretty typical? I don't have to with my old KZ. You just jack the front wheel off the ground, remove the top bolt and measure the distance from the top of the inner tube to the oil level. Then you just add or drain oil till your measurement is at spec.

I'm not sure...might be able to do it that way, though might need to remove the handlebar, and I'm not sure if measuring at an angle would complicate matters. I was planning on removing them from the triple clamps because of an earlier suggestion that there might be some binding going on at that level.

 

[jodyz_imp]

Because I'm "mass centralized" (saw that in Cycle World as a description of someone with a beer belly), I've considered getting fork springs and rear shocks correctly setup for my weight (~290 lbs light with gear on), but I've yet to search and commit to such a mod. I don't recall seeing anyone on the inter webs changing CB1100 fork springs for such a "pudgy" rider. Oh well... don't have the spare cash to do it now anyway.

 

[Ridem32_imp]

I don't think it forks binding! I would say fork oil. Check oil first. Could be wrong from factory or from PO. Your bike with your weight your forks should move more than that. If your bike tracks straight down the road I really think it's wrong amount of fork oil. I would drain oil and add the correct amount and weight. That way you will know for sure that you have the right amount of fork oil. At factory if done by person or auto filled it could very easy be wrong. JMO. Sounds like a simple thing to me. But let us know.
Michael
Reading the shop manual now! I take it your bike is a 2013?? It's takes 16.7oz in each fork. With forks off bike oil should be 4.6 inches from the top. If it's a 14 model right fork takes 17.1ozs left fork 14.7ozs. Forks off of bike right fork 4.4inches from top left fork 7.3inches from top. One more thing with no weight on your bike if you pull up on your forks do they come up much ? (With just weight of bike) meaning when you sit on it do they go down more than they should then get hard? At any rate I think it's wrong amount of oil in your forks or fork. You can remove forks easy and quickly. If your bike is less than a year old take to a dealer. But it's summer and I know they busy meaning they may have your bike for awhile. Why the 14 has 2 different oil capacitys I'm not sure. May be due to the ABS braking one caliper grabbing more than the other? I will recesrch that
Michael

 

[Aussie_imp]

Does anyone know what the ideal weight / height is for this bike? When Honda design bikes do they have an 'ideal' or average height / weight rider and then factor in differences through suspension settings/fork oil weight etc? For example I imagine they wouldn't set the bike up in an ideal world with a 40kg rider or a 100+kg rider, maybe something in the middle?