Front brake lever ROCK hard

[ichiban_imp]

Hey guys, I was bleeding the front brakes on my CB1100 18 YM. Everything is routine, cracked the 8mm bolt and start bleeding after a few pumps later there is no fluid coming out and the front lever is rock hard.

I have tried both front calipers and both have no fluid coming out! What the hell has happened any clues?

Never seen this on any bike I have owned.

 

[pekingduck]

Hey guys, I was bleeding the front brakes on my CB1100 18 YM. Everything is routine, cracked the 8mm bolt and start bleeding after a few pumps later there is no fluid coming out and the front lever is rock hard.

I have tried both front calipers and both have no fluid coming out! What the hell has happened any clues?

Never seen this on any bike I have owned.

Yours is a 2017 ABS model I recall.
When you started bleeding one side, got a little fluid out before it went solid, and then closed the bleeder. At this point, was the lever still solid?
Then when you went to the other side, did the lever move? Did any fluid come out?

Did the lever go in at any point after the initial lever lockup on the first side?

 

[ichiban_imp]

Hey guys, I was bleeding the front brakes on my CB1100 18 YM. Everything is routine, cracked the 8mm bolt and start bleeding after a few pumps later there is no fluid coming out and the front lever is rock hard.

I have tried both front calipers and both have no fluid coming out! What the hell has happened any clues?

Never seen this on any bike I have owned.

Yours is a 2017 ABS model I recall.
When you started bleeding one side, got a little fluid out before it went solid, and then closed the bleeder. At this point, was the lever still solid?
Then when you went to the other side, did the lever move? Did any fluid come out?

Did the lever go in at any point after the initial lever lockup on the first side?

Yours is a 2017 ABS model I recall.
When you started bleeding one side, got a little fluid out before it went solid, and then closed the bleeder. At this point, was the lever still solid?
Then when you went to the other side, did the lever move? Did any fluid come out?

Did the lever go in at any point after the initial lever lockup on the first side?
Hi pekingduck, Yeah it's ABS but not the combined ABS like previous models. Yup a small amount of fluid came out(left caliper) then the lever was rock hard. Closed the bleeder lever was the same, went to the other side, and no fluid either.

Yes, the lever did not budge after the first lock-up. Looked in the service manual and it points to a potentially seized caliper. well it was fine before I bleed it

 

[Gone in 60]

Maybe try a vacuum pump to extract instead of pumping the lever?

 

[ichiban_imp]

Maybe try a vacuum pump to extract instead of pumping the lever?

Thanks for the suggestion, I have left a few velcro strips on the lever hoping any airlock will clear overnight. I will have to buy a vacuum bleeder as last resort.

 

[Gone in 60]

When I had BMWs, I remember a tech once telling me that a vacuum pump should be used rather than pumping the lever to change and bleed brake fluid for fear of upsetting the ABS system. But, that was BMW, which can be weird.

To see if you've got a frozen caliper, if you've got fluid in the sytem and plenty in the reservoir, and hopefully no air in the lines, I'd remove the caliper mounting screws and rock the calipers back and forth to let the rotors push the pads back into the calipers a bit. Then, reattach the calipers, squeeze the lever gently, and see if you can push the pads back against the rotors without any resistance. If you can't get the pads to move, then something in the system is upset, and your calipers are locking up for some reason.

 

[pekingduck]

Is the lever all the way in, or back out to normal. The lever/master cylinder piston may be seized, because, with the bleeder valve open, it was able to travel far further than in normal use.

I would cover the tank with plastic or lots of other protection, then try wrapping a rag around the master cylinder hose bolt. Slowly loosen the bolt and see if the lever will pump fluid out bolt area of the master cylinder. The master cylinder is suspect since it does the same on both sides.

 

[ichiban_imp]

Got a vacuum pump and that made no difference at all, after cracking the master cylinder banjo bolt and squeezing the lever nothing. This leads to the point, the brake master cylinder is goosed. I will have to get the dealers involved as I have a warranty on this bike. Shame just got the bike and this has happened.

such is life!

 

[Gone in 60]

That is a shame. Hope the dealer is able to help. If it happened to my ‘13 with no warranty support, I’d order a master cylinder rebuild kit, tear it down, clean everything, make sure there was no wear or corrosion on the moving parts, replace the seals and put it back together.

 

[ichiban_imp]

That is a shame. Hope the dealer is able to help. If it happened to my ‘13 with no warranty support, I’d order a master cylinder rebuild kit, tear it down, clean everything, make sure there was no wear or corrosion on the moving parts, replace the seals and put it back together.

Yeah totally agree, I would have done the same if I did not have the warranty, the master cylinder repair kit is not that expensive either. This slight issue will not put me off the bike, Thanks for all your help really appreciate it.

 

[pekingduck]

I would unbolt thebrake lever and take the pivot pin out, make sure they are not what have frozen up.

 

[The Gecko_imp]

Hi ichiban,
there is a long thread about your model and ABS brakes, which may help. To me it reads as if you have been both experiencing the same or at least a similar problem. Might be worth reading carefully

The url is cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=17589&pid=311169#pid311169
(I don't know how to add an in-forum short link)

Let us know if it helps !

 

[the Ferret]

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=17589&pid=311169#pid311169

 

[pekingduck]

But if the lever doesn't move with the brake hose loosened at the master cylinder, the problem is within the master cylinder.

 

[ichiban_imp]

Thanks, guys, for the links and suggestions really appreciate it. However, that post is nothing definitive other than conjuncture, and having read the workshop manual for this model and spoken to a few honda shops both confirm that the 2016 CB1100 does not have an ABS bleed sequence or a mode you can put them by SCS shorting the pump for a bleed sequence. I have a 2017 CBR600RR that has a bleed sequence well defined in the workshop manual that took me over 4 hours there are over a dozen bleed nipples all over the bike and a complete cluster F""K of a job by the end of, I had Tourette Syndrome , I won't be doing that every two years.

The supplying dealer is coming tomorrow to fetch the bike and they can assess what on earth is wrong with it and you guys will be the first to know.

 

[Gone in 60]

Glad to hear that the dealer will get it sorted for you. Man, the procedure for the CBR600RR sounds brutal! My BMWs had a similar procedure, but I had purchased the infamous GS911 tool, and was able to replicate the dealer ABS bleed-down function. Still, had enough problems with BMW ABS that it swore me off ABS completely for a few years!

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Thanks, guys, for the links and suggestions really appreciate it. However, that post is nothing definitive other than conjuncture, and having read the workshop manual for this model and spoken to a few honda shops both confirm that the 2016 CB1100 does not have an ABS bleed sequence or a mode you can put them by SCS shorting the pump for a bleed sequence. I have a 2017 CBR600RR that has a bleed sequence well defined in the workshop manual that took me over 4 hours there are over a dozen bleed nipples all over the bike and a complete cluster F""K of a job by the end of, I had Tourette Syndrome , I won't be doing that every two years.

The supplying dealer is coming tomorrow to fetch the bike and they can assess what on earth is wrong with it and you guys will be the first to know.

Good to read the dealer is supporting you.

 

[STLTHMSTA_imp]

Oh No! Don't swear off ABS, it's a$$ saver. I shopped until I got and ABS model for the right price. I won't buy a bike without it unless it's a classic. BTW, I've not had any problems bleeding brakes related to ABS. Just sayin'. TM

 

[ichiban_imp]

Hey Guys,

The dealer just rang me and they have had a look at this issue, They have found the front part of the ABS unit is in a locked status from the front brake pipe circuit and the rear circuit is fine.

As they are sealed units they can't just repair the front end the entire unit will need to be changed. In the UK the ABS unit is just a mere £2,153.15 plus labour and consumables. What if I bought this bike privately I would not have had this 6-month warranty with the bike, so it is a little concerning the unit is a quarter of the value of the bike.

So the question is guys how many other ABS unit failures have we seen here?

 

[Lord Popgun]

I believe yours is the first reported failure.