EOT meter for OEM oil cooler

D

dsinned_imp

Been there
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Just took delivery of my new 2014. Kudos to HONDA for designing a truly great motorcycle. It's almost flawless! Does many things really well.

Just ordered my first mod. A Trail Tech temperature meter for the OEM oil cooler. Only $43. Easy to install and mounts to handlebars. Accuracy is supposedly +/- 1 degree F, based on a thermocouple inserted between fins in the cooler. Unfortunately, LCD has no back lighting, but quite visible in the daytime.

http://www.trailtech.net/722-ef6

Next project (experimental) is to install a "pusher" type fan made by SPAL, a company in Italy. Just ordered this from Amazon as well as a temperature sensor with integrated SPST switch to control the fan On/Off operation automatically. The fan blade size is 130mm - a bit oversize - with 240 CFM rating (at zero static pressure). It draws ~4.5A from a 12V battery.

Since its a front mounted fan, I selected one with a finger guard. Front wheel still can turn from lock to lock unobstructed.

I did a very similar mod to my 2015 Triumph Bonneville, except there was room to mount a "puller" fan behind the oil cooler on that bike. Before the fan, measurements of EOT (while riding) were alarmingly high even when OAT was only in the 70s. With the fan running, I realized a significant drop in peak EOT.

I don't think the CB1100 will work out quite as well because of the disadvantage of a pusher fan, but the same basic principles apply, the parts are not expensive, so I'm going to give it a try.

Stay tuned . . .
 
Very cool little project, really interested in what you find out . . .

I'm in Houston, OAT pretty warm most of the time. The heat coming up from the engine seems really hot at times, really hot. I know it's an oil cooled engine, not water cooled, but it is warm indeed.

So really curious if you'll get reasonable temperature drops from the pusher fan. I'm staying tuned . . .

dsinned_imp said:
Just took delivery of my new 2014. Kudos to HONDA for designing a truly great motorcycle. It's almost flawless! Does many things really well.

Just ordered my first mod. A Trail Tech temperature meter for the OEM oil cooler. Only $43. Easy to install and mounts to handlebars. Accuracy is supposedly +/- 1 degree F, based on a thermocouple inserted between fins in the cooler. Unfortunately, LCD has no back lighting, but quite visible in the daytime.

http://www.trailtech.net/722-ef6

Next project (experimental) is to install a "pusher" type fan made by SPAL, a company in Italy. Just ordered this from Amazon as well as a temperature sensor with integrated SPST switch to control the fan On/Off operation automatically. The fan blade size is 130mm - a bit oversize - with 240 CFM rating (at zero static pressure). It draws ~4.5A from a 12V battery.

Since its a front mounted fan, I selected one with a finger guard. Front wheel still can turn from lock to lock unobstructed.

I did a very similar mod to my 2015 Triumph Bonneville, except there was room to mount a "puller" fan behind the oil cooler on that bike. Before the fan, measurements of EOT (while riding) were alarmingly high even when OAT was only in the 70s. With the fan running, I realized a significant drop in peak EOT.

I don't think the CB1100 will work out quite as well because of the disadvantage of a pusher fan, but the same basic principles apply, the parts are not expensive, so I'm going to give it a try.

Stay tuned . . .
Click to expand...
 
Thread starter
1st Progress report . . .

Today, I did a feasibility test of mounting a "pusher" type fan in front of the oil cooler. I received the Spal 5.2" fan I intend to use for this mod and it fits quite well with no interference or wiring problems whatsoever. I did a quick mounting of the fan and powered it up to test the concept with my bike stationary in my garage.

With the fan flush mounted to the front of the cooler, offset to the left hand side, there is a good amount of air flowing directly to the rear of the cooler. I choose this mounting location because the fan has three asymmetrical mounting bosses and in this position they optimally align with convenient places to tie wrap the fan to the cooler.

There is even more air flow to the top of the engine, because this fan is a bit oversize and overlaps the top of the cooler by about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. It's flush with the bottom. This puts some air onto the oil return line as well.

I also tested to see if any air flows around the engine and back to where the rider's legs would be. There was very little, an insignificant amount really, so this does not seem to be an issue.

This Spal fan is quite powerful for its size. I tested it on the bench and measured 6050 rpm and a current draw of 4 amps (4.6A with significant back pressure). It's noisy, loud enough to be heard above an idling engine, but not that loud it can be heard riding the bike.

I plan to wire a 12V indicating status light in parallel with the fan to be located somewhere below the ignition switch or vicinity. When this light in ON, the fan is operating, and Off when its not. I also plan to wire a thermostatic switch in series with the fan to provide automatic control. On at 160F, Off at 145F.

Alternatively, I can use my Trail Tech (programmable) temp meter to control the fan. In which case, I will set the meter to toggle the fan On/Off at 150F (lowest setting). This is because both my temperature sensors are externally in surface contact with the cooler. As such, they can only sense a lower than actual oil temperature due to the thermal gradient between the inside and outside the cooler's enclosure.

Next, I need to take some before an after measurements of an approximation of EOT (using the Trail Tech temp meter. I wish there was a better way to take direct readings of EOT, like I believe the ECU has as a signal input, but this would add a level of complexity to this project that exceeds my technical knowledge of the CB1100's internal workings.

On the road testing to follow in the next few weeks . . .
 
dsinned_imp said:
1st Progress report . . .

Today, I did a feasibility test of mounting a "pusher" type fan in front of the oil cooler. I received the Spal 5.2" fan I intend to use for this mod and it fits quite well with no interference or wiring problems whatsoever. I did a quick mounting of the fan and powered it up to test the concept with my bike stationary in my garage.

With the fan flush mounted to the front of the cooler, offset to the left hand side, there is a good amount of air flowing directly to the rear of the cooler. I choose this mounting location because the fan has three asymmetrical mounting bosses and in this position they optimally align with convenient places to tie wrap the fan to the cooler.

There is even more air flow to the top of the engine, because this fan is a bit oversize and overlaps the top of the cooler by about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. It's flush with the bottom. This puts some air onto the oil return line as well.

I also tested to see if any air flows around the engine and back to where the rider's legs would be. There was very little, an insignificant amount really, so this does not seem to be an issue.

This Spal fan is quite powerful for its size. I tested it on the bench and measured 6050 rpm and a current draw of 4 amps (4.6A with significant back pressure). It's noisy, loud enough to be heard above an idling engine, but not that loud it can be heard riding the bike.

I plan to wire a 12V indicating status light in parallel with the fan to be located somewhere below the ignition switch or vicinity. When this light in ON, the fan is operating, and Off when its not. I also plan to wire a thermostatic switch in series with the fan to provide automatic control. On at 160F, Off at 145F.

Alternatively, I can use my Trail Tech (programmable) temp meter to control the fan. In which case, I will set the meter to toggle the fan On/Off at 150F (lowest setting). This is because both my temperature sensors are externally in surface contact with the cooler. As such, they can only sense a lower than actual oil temperature due to the thermal gradient between the inside and outside the cooler's enclosure.

Next, I need to take some before an after measurements of an approximation of EOT (using the Trail Tech temp meter. I wish there was a better way to take direct readings of EOT, like I believe the ECU has as a signal input, but this would add a level of complexity to this project that exceeds my technical knowledge of the CB1100's internal workings.

On the road testing to follow in the next few weeks . . .
Click to expand...
Have you wired the fan into the bike yet, and if so where did you tap into for power?
 
Thread starter
For testing purposes, yes, briefly, directly to the bike's 12 volt battery without the engine running. I powered up the fan initially to see how much air flows to the rear of the cooler. I was pleasantly surprised to find sufficient moving air produced by this "pusher" fan. Now, I'm going to take a ride with no fan to measure the temperature at the oil inlet (supply) side of the cooler using my Trail Tech temp meter. This is to have a baseline reading with respect to the peak temperature measured at the "hot side" of the cooler. The Trail Tech meter stores the maximum temperature recorded after surpassing 130F (with self reset), but I will be able to read the temp in real time as well. After I have this data, then I will reinstall the fan, including all associated wiring to have automatic temperature activated control.
 
dsinned_imp said:
For testing purposes, yes, briefly, directly to the bike's 12 volt battery without the engine running. I powered up the fan initially to see how much air flows to the rear of the cooler. I was pleasantly surprised to find sufficient moving air produced by this "pusher" fan. Now, I'm going to take a ride with no fan to measure the temperature at the oil inlet (supply) side of the cooler using my Trail Tech temp meter. This is to have a baseline reading with respect to the peak temperature measured at the "hot side" of the cooler. The Trail Tech meter stores the maximum temperature recorded after surpassing 130F (with self reset), but I will be able to read the temp in real time as well. After I have this data, then I will reinstall the fan, including all associated wiring to have automatic temperature activated control.
Click to expand...
Thank you, looking forward to hearing about your results.
 
Thread starter
Late this afternoon, the local weather was a bit breezy but otherwise a nice day for a ride (only my 3rd on this new bike). I removed the fan so I could collect some EOC (engine oil cooler) temperature data with my handlebar mounted Trail Tech temp meter. OAT was ~75F during the ride.

I let the engine warm up for about 10 to 15 minutes before the ride. The temp slowly increased to about 160F during that time, then went for a slow paced ride on my neighborhood streets. Surprisingly, the initial reading dropped a few degrees. I think this is b/c the engine dissipates more heat into the cooler ambient air as I was riding along, as opposed to sitting still in my garage where after several minutes of warm up time, it creates a higher local ambient with absolutely no air movement. Eventually, the EOC temp started rising again after a few minutes of riding, while approaching 200F.

At this point I decided to ride up a long windy road that tops out at about 2000 feet above sea level. My average speed was only about 20 mph and due to the steepness of the grade, I stayed mostly in 2nd gear.

The meter temp began slow rising again, until it peaked at 225F at the top of the hill; maybe 5 miles from the starting point. Now, I have a baseline for further testing with the fan using the same road, speed and elevation change over the same distance. With fan running, a peak EOC temp significantly less than 225F is the objective.

If I use the Trail Tech to control the fan, with a programmable set point of 150 to 200F, I now know the meter and companion temp sensor has sufficient range to do the job. However, I have to do additional baseline tests before deciding on an appropriate set point.

Of course, with the fan mounted but not running, the EOC will be less efficient. So, I expect to see an equalization temp probably somewhere North of 200F. (I will arbitrarily use ~45 mph to determine this point.)

After the equalization point is determined, I will have sufficient data to program the set point of the Trail Tech to accomplish two objectives: 1) minimize the duty cycle on the fan, and 2) minimize extra loading on the battery.

As an alternative to using the TT to control the On/Off set point of the fan, I might use a different external EOC sensor with two set points; one with a high turn On temp of 160F, as well as an lower turn Off temp of 145F. This sensor has an integrated thermostatically controlled SPST switch. It has the advantage of keeping the fan running longer after engine shutdown to reduce the overall duration of heat soak.

A simpler approach would be to just hook up a simple, handlebar mounted, On/Off switch (which I already have available) to control the fan manually, using the TT only as nothing more than an EOC temp monitor.

Stay tuned . . .
 
Geezalou, certainly you didn't let it sit there and idle for 10-15 minutes, right? This is an air cooled motorcycle, as you well know, and needs air rushing over cylinders to maintain a suitable temp in cylinders and head. 3-5 minutes at idle is sufficient warm up if the ambient air temp is over 50 degrees and only a minute or two more down into the 30s.
 
With all respect to DIY projects, what is the purpose of this modification? As The ferret said, this bike needs to be moving to keep cool. The oil cooler is only a part of the cooling system, the bulk of the cooling is done as he said by air flowing over the cylinders.

Also the bike is very well-designed, there's no need to modify or monitor this system. The ferret has a boatload of miles as do a few others here; I don't have so many miles but I frequently redline my bike and all the valves were perfect at the 8K mile check. It's holding up beautifully as I understand is also the case with just about everyone else.

So if you have concerns, put your mind at ease and just ride.

OTOH if it's just a fun project, by all means, enjoy.
 
Thread starter
Thanks for your comments.

First, let me just say, I did a similar project already on my 2015 Triumph Bonneville T100. It was the same idea except on that bike, there is sufficient room behind the oil cooler for a fan. Also, on the Bonnie, I was able to gather EOT data directly out of the ECU and it was based on INTERNAL oil temperature readings. I was shocked to find out how extreme the EOT got; very nearly 300F WHILE RIDING THE BIKE! But not riding across the Mojave Desert in the middle of Summer. I had EOT excursions that high from riding during mild Springtime days with OAT only in the mid 70s. Of course, stop and go exacerbates engine temperature on ANY air cooled motorcycle. The Honda CB1100 is no exception.

Long story short, I was able to reduce EOT significantl, especially during adverse riding conditions, with just the addition of a retrofitted EOC fan. In fact, it is exactly the same fan I'm using again on my CB, except it's a pusher not a puller. I am using an Italian made Spal 5.2" fan in both cases. This particular fan is quite powerful for its size and does a good job flowing air thru the oil cooler especially when riding at relatively slower speeds. At higher speeds, obviously a fan is not really needed, and can be turned off, but does not create much of an obstacle to natural air flow.

As you have rightfully pointed out, what is undeniable in the design of ANY air cooled motorcycle engine is the importance of MOVING AIR! However, we cannot control everyday riding situations and sometimes stop and go traffic is unavoidable. This is where a fan provides supplemental cooling benefits to an air cooled engine. Understandably, they are commonly used on dirt bikes oil coolers.

What I was shocked to read on this forum was from a fellow member who claimed the only overheating protection we have on our bikes is a little idiot light that illuminates at 340F! A warning at that point, is too late IMHO! Thus, this is the reason I began this project with an inexpensive temperature monitoring mod, which I have already validated its effectiveness this afternoon.

Unfortunately, there are no OEM "fan kits" for the CB1100. Nor for the Bonneville either. I don't know why as there are appropriate fans available - fairly inexpensive - well up to this task that can be easily mounted either behind or in front of the EOC "as is". Mounting the fan is easy to do merely using tie wraps and a pair of wires to the 12V battery. With the addition of a simple SPST switch to the handlebars, the fan can be operated by the rider as necessary, and certainly of usefulness while stuck in stop and go. All the parts needed for this DIY mod don't even add up to 100 bucks. Managing to keep the oil cool(er) will also pay big dividends with respect to the overall reliability of the bike (e.g. keeping rubber and plastic hoses and oil seals from wearing out and leaking).

The fan mod turned out very successful on my air cooled Triumph, so it might be just as worthwhile to try out again on my Honda. No guarantee, of course, but that is what I am trying to determine and the rationale for this project.
 
On my water cooled N1k the fans where set from the factory to come on @ 210. After the ECU flash the # was reduced to 200. Just FYI general highway riding @ 60mph with temps in the low 80's the bike will run 170-175. Because the CB runs hotter 190 would seem to be a good # for the fan to kick on.
 
Well I am interested in your project and data, do please keep posting data. Also please post the details of the fan and temperature sensor.

I do not see how this can hurt other than maybe reducing air flow if fan fails. Question is how well does it help.

However I would suggest not letting bike idle for so long as a warm up for the good of your bike.

Keep going, as projects like this help all that are interested.

Facts and data can never hurt.
 
Elipten_imp said:
Well I am interested in your project and data, do please keep posting data. Also please post the details of the fan and temperature sensor.

I do not see how this can hurt other than maybe reducing air flow if fan fails. Question is how well does it help.

However I would suggest not letting bike idle for so long as a warm up for the good of your bike.

Keep going, as projects like this help all that are interested.

Facts and data can never hurt.
Click to expand...
That was my only point, don't let the bike sit there and idle for 10 to 15 minutes. The project will return some valuable info for the owner, and may return some benefit on engine longevity if he would end up keeping the bike long enough and ride enough miles.

Even with a fan I would not let my bike idle for extended periods of time. When I get in heavy traffic or stopped, as were were at the rally by construction, I turn the bike off so that those plugs are not firing producing heat for which there is no air movement to carry the heat away. Once traffic ahead starts to move I will fire it up again and get air moving thru the oil cooler and over the cylinder fins.

I do believe the manufacturers know what they are doing and I know of no over heating issues with air cooled bikes except on some Harley Davidson models with the rear V cylinder when not moving, and I believe there was a modification from the factory for that, and if memory serves me it involved shutting down of the rear cylinder. Maybe someone else can remember.

Even Harleys and BMW's partial addition of water cooling is directed at the heads where the spark plugs are firing and not directed to the cylinder walls.

by all means continue with your project and report your findings.
 
My Buell has a factory fan and sounds like a vacuum when it kicks on. Stays on even after I turn off bike until it reaches a certain temperature.
 
Thread starter
I DO plan to continue working on this project. I'm a retired electronics component engineer, and in the Navy I was an Electrician, so these kind of DIY projects interest me and within my skills set. Again, this is my second air cooled bike to be modified with an EOC fan. The first was a complete success. However, I ran into a lot of "resistance" to the idea (on another forum). A lot of guys expressed sentiments of basically, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it", or words to the effect that I have too much idle time on my hands. Guilty as charged! :-))

As to aschem comment, that is one of the secondary benefits of a fan, i.e. keep the fan running for a while after turning off the ignition to aid in engine cool down and helping to prevent heat soak.
 
On the CB, running the fan after the engine is off is only going to cool the oil in the cooler.

The results of your experiments are interesting though and I too am waiting to see what you come up with. Knowledge is a good thing :)
 
Thread starter
Elipten, here are the details of the Spal fan I'm using: http://www.spalautomotive.com/eng/products/view_axial.aspx?id=VA37-A101-46S

And here are the details of the American Volt thermostatic temp sensor: Amazon.com

And the On/Off handlebar rocker switch: Amazon.com
popgun, that's true, but the fan running after shutdown also moves a lot of air behind the cooler in and around the front of the engine. Not a lot, but enough to aid in cooling down the heads and exhaust ports. E.g., on my other bike with a fan, I am able to touch the header pipes without burning my fingers within minutes after engine shutdown. This is because of the rapid cool down effect of the fan. This comes in handy when its time to change the oil and filter.
 
Thanks

I love it when people post the details to the supplies for projects like this. Makes it easier.

I have a Spal fan mod to do on my BMW one of these winters as the BMW part is junk and not for exposure to the elements.

When you get bored after this project us old K-bike owners could use a smart electronics man to develop a ECU replacement for our bikes! Lol
 
dsinned_imp said:
Elipten, here are the details of the Spal fan I'm using: http://www.spalautomotive.com/eng/products/view_axial.aspx?id=VA37-A101-46S

And here are the details of the American Volt thermostatic temp sensor: Amazon.com

And the On/Off handlebar rocker switch: Amazon.com
popgun, that's true, but the fan running after shutdown also moves a lot of air behind the cooler in and around the front of the engine. Not a lot, but enough to aid in cooling down the heads and exhaust ports. E.g., on my other bike with a fan, I am able to touch the header pipes without burning my fingers within minutes after engine shutdown. This is because of the rapid cool down effect of the fan. This comes in handy when its time to change the oil and filter.
Click to expand...
Yes you are right. I didn't think about that. Should have though. Lots of times I park my bike in the garage and put a fan, sometimes 3, on it to aid in cooling.
Ferret, I've read of HD shutting down the rear cylinder too. Plus, you can get the 'parade fan' option from HD or from aftermarket sources.
Ferret, I've read of HD shutting down the rear cylinder too. Plus, you can get the 'parade fan' option from HD or from aftermarket sources.
 
Thread starter
Today, i went for a longer ride of about 60 miles, including another up hill climb 7 miles long on a different road from yesterday's ride. The OAT was in the mid 70s, little to no wind today. This time the highest EOC temp reached was 205F, 20 degrees less than yesterday. I think it was a bit cooler outside today compared to yesterday's ride.

The CB1100 has a much less stressed engine than my Triumph Bonneville. The low end torque and gearing is much better too for slow paced rides. The CB can cruise almost effortlessly from 2000 to 3000 rpm. These factors contribute to a cooler running engine with less heat load on the oil cooler.

I'm almost now of the opinion, having gotten use to my new bike, that mounting a pusher fan for riding under relatively "pleasant" conditions is unnecessary.

Nevertheless, I decided to be more conservative and try a smaller, low power pusher fan that I obtained for another project but never used. It only draws about 10 watts with an unspecified air flow rating probably around 100 cfm. This fan is super quiet, comparable to a fan used in a desktop computer, although of more rugged construction. It is in a 120 mm square frame with seven paddle blades about 4.5" in diameter and overall depth of about 32 mm. It's quite cheap too, only $19 on Amazon, made by a Chinese company named GooFit.

Amazon.com: iWonow Motorcycle 7/8 Inch Universal Handlebar Mounting Switch DC 12V for Motorbike Fog Lamp Head Light Electrical System : Automotive

I was able to mount this fan in the center of the oil cooler taking up only 1/3rd of the total frontal area. It was much easier to mount as well and fits the front of the cooler perfectly. It has a much lower profile than the Spal fan and is made of black plastic so it blends in with the CB1100's OEM oil cooler quite well.

I wired the fan to the 12V battery using the Trail Tech temp meter as its controller for automatic On/Off operation. Also, I moved the meter to the center of the handlebar directly behind the ignition switch. Btw, the meter can also display battery voltage as an added perk!

I haven't road tested the fan yet - hopefully tomorrow - but programmed the Trail Tech's On/Off set point to 150F, so that I can make sure it works. Ideally, the optimum set point should be higher, say 180F to reduce the duty cycle of the fan.

Frankly, I don't think this less powerful fan has enough air flow to make much difference. However, the 5.2" Spal fan is quite possibly too much fan and puts a rather heavy load on the battery. I now believe Spal's 4" pusher fan might be about right for this application. Unfortunately, I only have a 4" puller and its not reversible. Spal's pusher costs $45 on ebay. At this point, it will be very easy to swap fans if and when necessary to complete this project.
 
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