Engine Sound Changed After Service

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

Has anyone dropped their bike off for service and picked it up sounding different/worse?

Had the 8,000 mile service done yesterday. Other than dirt/salt/farkles, the bike sounded and ran the same as the day I bought it from the dealer. I dropped it off at the same dealer on Monday afternoon, and then I picked it up on Tuesday evening. After turning it on, I noticed a "clicking". Basically, an additional sound on top of the regular engine sound. It was present at all RPMs. I immediately turned it off and walked back inside. Manager said the tech also noticed it and it sounded like the air intake valve, but that it wasn't broken. They said I was welcome to ride it around and bring it back later if it still bothered me. After riding it around town, it is best described as a "gurgle" from the front / maybe leftish side of the bike.

NOTES: the valves didn't need adjusting at all and the spark plugs were not replaced; brake line was flushed and the oil was changed.

:biker:

 

[Lord Popgun]

Did the clicking vary with RPMs? A SWAG--did they mess with the cam chain tensioner? Did they use 10W40 oil? There have been engine noises reported by some when using that oil.

 

[the Ferret]

just curious, did they pull the plugs and look at them, or just assumed they were good? (BTW I have 19,000 on my original plugs)

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

I requested that they use the recommended Honda oil. They had pulled the plugs to look, but didn't have any replacements in stock. They are still fine and should be good till the next service or till I order some.

Service manager said the tech said it sounded like the "air intake valve". Anyone know about it? The bike sounds more like it spent a little to much time with Harleys or a Royal Enfield.

 

[Django]

Does the ticking get louder, when you open the throttle and the engine is pulling? Does it disappear, when you close the throttle and the motorcycle is pushing the engine?

In my oppinion, you can ignore these wrong-oil-causing-this-tickle discussions. That's only rumors.

I observed discussions about this issues now for a couple of times. I also experienced it myself after the 12,000 km service at my bike, done by the Honda dealership. They fixed it the other day.

It appears after opening and closing of the cylinderhead cover, for checking the valves. If they checked the valves, there is a pretty chance, that this might be the cause.



No. 8 in this picture is a reed valve, a membrane. It opens, when flue gas is leaving the outlet valve, to add fresh air for the catalytic. If you close the throttle, there is no combustion and no flue gas, the membrane closes to avoid popping.

If the cover is opened/closed, it may produce some contact of the membrane parts to the head and cause, that you hear the membrane clicking. You can fix this by reopen and close and try to find the right position of the cover.

Another cause could be, by removing the ignition cables to be able to open the cylinderhead cover, some cable get damaged and now produces a spark to the frame, which sounds like a clicking.

The drawing of the cylinderhead cover is token from:
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2013-honda-cb1100/o/m155484#sch793027

If your dealership does not find the root cause, they should ask their Honda support/backup. As this issue appears quite often, Honda should have a solution in their problem database.

HTH.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Django,

Great explanation on the reed valve operation.

However, the oil weight thing is not rumor. A number of people have reported this, on the board here and in the UK, since the bike came out. It may not be a factor, but it has happened and been reported that switching back cured their problem. WHY? Well I don't know, and no one else seems to either.

I do like your suggestion better than "wrong" oil weight though. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

Does the ticking get louder, when you open the throttle and the engine is pulling? Does it disappear, when you close the throttle and the motorcycle is pushing the engine?

In my oppinion, you can ignore these wrong-oil-causing-this-tickle discussions. That's only rumors.

I observed discussions about this issues now for a couple of times. I also experienced it myself after the 12,000 km service at my bike, done by the Honda dealership. They fixed it the other day.

It appears after opening and closing of the cylinderhead cover, for checking the valves. If they checked the valves, there is a pretty chance, that this might be the cause.



No. 8 in this picture is a reed valve, a membrane. It opens, when flue gas is leaving the outlet valve, to add fresh air for the catalytic. If you close the throttle, there is no combustion and no flue gas, the membrane closes to avoid popping.

If the cover is opened/closed, it may produce some contact of the membrane parts to the head and cause, that you hear the membrane clicking. You can fix this by reopen and close and try to find the right position of the cover.

Another cause could be, by removing the ignition cables to be able to open the cylinderhead cover, some cable get damaged and now produces a spark to the frame, which sounds like a clicking.

The drawing of the cylinderhead cover is token from:
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2013-honda-cb1100/o/m155484#sch793027

If your dealership does not find the root cause, they should ask their Honda support/backup. As this issue appears quite often, Honda should have a solution in their problem database.

HTH.

Yes! This describes the presence/behavior of the sound exactly, Django. And they did indeed check the valves as recommended.

I will return to the dealer tomorrow.

They also did the 600 and 4000 mile services, so I *assume* the oil is the same as before.

Sent from my XT1019 using Tapatalk

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

They were unable to completely fix the sound. They took it apart and put it back together again. It was a little quiet at idle, but clear as day when they engine is pulling. They will be checking with Honda support.

Django - do you know if your dealer did anything more specific than using it apart and putting it back together?

Sent from my XT1019 using Tapatalk

 

[paul kellam_imp]

please keep us up to date thanks

 

[Lord Popgun]

I hope Django checks back in here after tearing up the Autobahn on his new ride!

Looking at the parts diagram above, and at the service manual, the reed valve assembly is not complicated. The cover, the reed valve, and the port plate. I can't tell if it is possible to install the port plate backwards. Maybe a possibility? There is a good pic of it in the service manual, but hard to tell. Django, any ideas?

 

[Inhouse Bob]

Unless Django has dropped his account, you could still reach him with a PM or even an email, so maybe we haven't entirely lost him to his new love.

 

[Django]

popgun, I'm sorry. I don't have more details as I already have written so far.

I hope, your dealership does get help from the Honda support. It should be a known problem there.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Thanks Django.

I hope EarsOnWheels gets it straightened out. And if mine starts after service I will know where to look!

 

[Gumby 1100_imp]

I hope Django checks back in here after tearing up the Autobahn on his new ride!

Looking at the parts diagram above, and at the service manual, the reed valve assembly is not complicated. The cover, the reed valve, and the port plate. I can't tell if it is possible to install the port plate backwards. Maybe a possibility? There is a good pic of it in the service manual, but hard to tell. Django, any ideas?

From what I remember about my VTX1800, it may have been possible to install the REED valve membranes upside down (The PAIR system on many Hondas is very similar). In that case it would be venting during the exhaust cycle through the PAIR Valve Plumbing.

To verify if this is the case, I would disconnect the PAIR Valve hoses from intake ports 3 and 4 as shown in Django's posted illustration and briefly fire up the engine. In theory, you should then see/feel exhaust leaving through these ports if the membranes are upside down/backwards. At least with the hoses off, you might be able to hear if that is the source of the clicking. Then, it would be a simple matter to correct or adjust the membranes and you shouldn't have to remove the valve cover to do this.

Actually, there should be no reason to disassemble the REED valves at all when doing a valve inspection/adjustment (at least no reason that I am aware of). For that reason alone, I am starting to doubt that the REED valves may be the source of your noise, but hey, you never know!

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

Thank you. The sound is bugging me. Dealer had promised to check with Honda Support and update me.

Any additional insight is appreciated.

Sent from my XT1019 using Tapatalk

 

[CIP57_imp]

Thank you. The sound is bugging me. Dealer had promised to check with Honda Support and update me.

Any additional insight is appreciated.

Sent from my XT1019 using Tapatalk

Where is the sound coming from lower end or on top. What does it sound like and can you post a video. If its coming from the lower right near the crankcase its the oil blend they used. This would not by an electrical sound, more of a knock or rattle in the lower end which increases with rpm's. All Honda dealers use 10-40 its the most common oil to use in bulk. There not going to go out to the shelf for 10-30 which by the way most do not even carry in dino. You have to use full synthic to get that grade in the dealership. Without hearing it its hard to diagnosis the problem.

Edit:
Listen to the second video in this thread, does it sound like this ???

Getting ready for the riding season greeted by bad sounds....

 

[Toddman_imp]

My engine didn't sound as smooth after the first oil change. I'll report back as the spring change is coming up and I will use a better oil after the break in. Maybe with a premium oil in, it will sound a little better. I don't worry about issues like this but I did think it a bit strange.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

What ever happened with this?

 

[EarsOnWheels_imp]

Dealer couldn't figure it out. (ugh) After the *next service*, it sounded a little less loud. I got a little bit used to it, kinda, but it still sucked to buy something new and then have something go awry, especially something you were fond of.

BOTTOM LINE: bike never went back to sounding like it did in the first 8,000 miles, but it didn't seem to affect performance.

I've since upgraded to a DLX (from Motogeezer), and the engine sounds normal to me.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Thanks for the update.

I'd bet they rushed and did *something* wrong...

I took my valve cover off and swapped it for one I stripped and clear-coated- with no change on sound, but I also take my time to make sure everything is 100% correct and tq wrench used, etc...