Engine rebuild...

[QUINTtastic_imp]

I have a 2014 DLX and after only 4 years and 11 thousand miles, it’s at the dealer for new pistons, rings, valves and honing of the cylinder wall.

I was experiencing massive vibes making my hair stand on end from head to toe. Then a loss of 5 mpg.

Heck it vibed more than my 1978 CB750.

I always use non ethanol (non eth gas station 3 miles from my house and next to my work)

And I always use proper oils, etc etc

Carbon build up on the pistons was so significant that it bent a valve and gouged the cylinder walls.

There was a previous owner, he sold it to me because he wasn’t riding as much as he wanted to, so maybe he was starting it in his garage and the carbon couldn’t burn off? Maybe he just rode it around his block?

All of my trips are at least 15 minutes but generally a half hour to an hour+

Regardless of that.. 4 years and 11 thousand miles on a Honda DOHC? That seems just crazy. Pretty devastating.. and expensive as cuss.

Anybody else have something like this happen?

 

[peterbaron]

First time to hear this, even if engine was neglected should last longer, but you never know what went wrong (was there any oil consumption problem as well, you said??) during first owner possession???
Carbon build up bent some valves???, prior that should have/show some drivability problem, as carbon usually tends to build first around valve transition region and its stem??!!
I always use FI cleaner 1-3 year depending on mileage driven and top tier gas, usually 91.
Hope that dealer diagnose will correct issue, how about new valve seals and valves/seats grinding, checking valve guides = top end as well.
Diagnose it right and fix it at the first time (did they do a leak down and compression tests as well, was the head pulled off to see damage??). Do not intend to interfere with dealer diagnosis, as I do not have this vehicle in my hands.
Good luck and keep us in the loop

 

[the Ferret]

geez i find that hard to believe (not to say you are not telling the truth) but these motors have been super reliable for members of this forum. i mean the technology is 45 years old, and manufacturing materials and standards top shelf. we have one forum member with 100,000 miles, another with 85,000 miles, one with 65,000 miles and several near 50,000 miles without motor issues.

just out of curiosity were the valve clearances inspected at 8,000 miles on your bike?

 

[max]

That is so unusual i have actually never heard of a situation like this, bent valve even.
even if it was overfilled with oil and burning some you would have had some white smoke for the amount of carbon, i putter around mostly and plugs are just perfect, just a small amount of carbon on the top of the pistons.

How many miles did you put on the bike and did the engine vibration start gradually?

Certainly would ask for the pistons and any other parts back to have a closer look.

Sounds like something went wrong and needs to put right, having said that i have seen somebody's car with engine problems, no fault codes and turned out the fuel was the problem, the tech took some out of the tank and spilled on the pavement, half of it never evaporated, it looked and smelled ok but........
new fuel solved the problem immediately, that was in new York as well and recently, never found out what was in the fuel but it makes you think.:huh:

Thanks for posting and best of luck; max

 

[use2b_imp]

pretty bike . other than the common 2nd gear problem with the Honda S65 in the 60's i have never had a single problem with any Honda i have ever owned in 50 years. sad it happened to you man and there must be a 3rd component to this somewhere .

 

[QUINTtastic_imp]

First time to hear this, even if engine was neglected should last longer, but you never know what went wrong (was there any oil consumption problem as well, you said??) during first owner possession???
Carbon build up bent some valves???, prior that should have/show some drivability problem, as carbon usually tends to build first around valve transition region and its stem??!!
I always use FI cleaner 1-3 year depending on mileage driven and top tier gas, usually 91.
Hope that dealer diagnose will correct issue, how about new valve seals and valves/seats grinding, checking valve guides = top end as well.
Diagnose it right and fix it at the first time (did they do a leak down and compression tests as well, was the head pulled off to see damage??). Do not intend to interfere with dealer diagnosis, as I do not have this vehicle in my hands.
Good luck and keep us in the loop

Hey thanks for the input!
I made a note to look into F1 cleaner.
Zero consumption issues before this.
There wasn't any performance issue until the vibes started.
I was just riding one day and all of the sudden thought "Uhh this is unpleasant."
And it was fine the day before.
Also even though it was still quick as he**, the throttle was less sensitive.

Must've been building up and then when the valve bent, the vibes started.
Cylinder 2 had a 53% leakdown.
The dealers senior mechanic is working on it, so that makes me feel a bit better
Just crossing my fingers it can be fixed..

I'm going to post a picture of the pistons in this thread too.
Thought you guys might like to see a bit of inside the bike, hopefully yours will never have to be apart

I wasn't able to take pictures before they honed the cylinder walls

geez i find that hard to believe (not to say you are not telling the truth) but these motors have been super reliable for members of this forum. i mean the technology is 45 years old, and manufacturing materials and standards top shelf. we have one forum member with 100,000 miles, another with 85,000 miles, one with 65,000 miles and several near 50,000 miles without motor issues.

just out of curiosity were the valve clearances inspected at 8,000 miles on your bike?

That was my thought exactly!
I got this bike instead of something vintage so I would have a reliable bike I could take on trips.
(Also I think most new bikes are ugly as sin)
I was like "Really? This is pretty old technology, from HONDA"

And yes, I am a fan of proactive maintenance VS. reactive maintenance
I do everything at the mile markers and I paid for the shop manual as well

That is so unusual i have actually never heard of a situation like this, bent valve even.
even if it was overfilled with oil and burning some you would have had some white smoke for the amount of carbon, i putter around mostly and plugs are just perfect, just a small amount of carbon on the top of the pistons.

How many miles did you put on the bike and did the engine vibration start gradually?

Certainly would ask for the pistons and any other parts back to have a closer look.

Sounds like something went wrong and needs to put right, having said that i have seen somebody's car with engine problems, no fault codes and turned out the fuel was the problem, the tech took some out of the tank and spilled on the pavement, half of it never evaporated, it looked and smelled ok but........
new fuel solved the problem immediately, that was in new York as well and recently, never found out what was in the fuel but it makes you think.:huh:

Thanks for posting and best of luck; max

Yep, definitely not something I thought would happen from a Honda! Especially since it's not some new honda tech.

I've put on a few thousand miles since I've had it, and the issue happened like the flick of a switch. One day it was typical and smooth as can be, the next day the vibes were ridiculous.

pretty bike . other than the common 2nd gear problem with the Honda S65 in the 60's i have never had a single problem with any Honda i have ever owned in 50 years. sad it happened to you man and there must be a 3rd component to this somewhere .

You know, it does seem like there has to be a 3rd component but it's like.. what the heck would that even be? I have opened a file with Honda and hope that even though its out of warranty, if I hassle them enough with politeness they will help.

 

[Houtman_imp]

Did you buy gas between the good day and the bad day ?

 

[Cormanus]

Geez, that sucks QUNITastic. I have nearly 60,000 miles on my 2011 and, other than routine maintenance and one valve adjustment, everything is tickety boo. This is certainly the first report like this I've seen on this forum. I hope you're able to find an explanation. I also hope you soon have the bike running smoothly again.

 

[Haystack_imp]

Sorry to hear about your bike but, something's not right here...

Not to sound like a naive ignoramus, but could the dealer petition Honda Motor Co. to cover the cost of repairs since it's such a low mileage machine with no obvious evidence of neglect or abuse which may indicate a deficiency of materials and or workmanship?

I know of a Yamaha dealer several years ago who did this for a customer's 3 year-old machine and they covered the cost of parts (not labor) in the repair. His machine was out of warranty as well. The manufacturer may have information that has not been disseminated publicly. Wishful thinking?

Just a thought.

P.S. I'm closing in on 87,000 mi. and the motor's not been touched other than a valve check at 18,000 mi. which all were in spec.

 

[QUINTtastic_imp]

Sorry to hear about your bike but, something's not right here...

Not to sound like a naive ignoramus, but could the dealer petition Honda Motor Co. to cover the cost of repairs since it's such a low mileage machine with no obvious evidence of neglect or abuse which may indicate a deficiency of materials and or workmanship?

I know of a Yamaha dealer several years ago who did this for a customer's 3 year-old machine and they covered the cost of parts (not labor) in the repair. His machine was out of warranty as well. The manufacturer may have information that has not been disseminated publicly. Wishful thinking?

Just a thought.

P.S. I'm closing in on 87,000 mi. and the motor's not been touched other than a valve check at 18,000 mi. which all were in spec.

Technically the bike is 3 years out of warranty. But, obviously it’s ridiculous this has happened soo I do have a file opened with Honda and will be pestering them a lot

It’s also like, what’s to stop this from happening again? Say I did neglect it (which I didn’t, when any bike isn’t running perfect I dwell on it incessantly and fix it ASAP)

Wishful thinking in terms of Honda being a business, but good thinking in terms of morals, business or not.

Geez, that sucks QUNITastic. I have nearly 60,000 miles on my 2011 and, other than routine maintenance and one valve adjustment, everything is tickety boo. This is certainly the first report like this I've seen on this forum. I hope you're able to find an explanation. I also hope you soon have the bike running smoothly again.

Hey man, thanks!

Good thing I wasn’t able to go on the cross country trip I had planned this summer. I surely would have been miserable driving thousands of miles with this issue.

 

[use2b_imp]

could this be SUGAR ?
hate even saying that but could sabotage be in the mix ?

 

[QUINTtastic_imp]

could this be SUGAR ?
hate even saying that but could sabotage be in the mix ?

The only person with access to my spare key is my wife and I surely hope not! Seeing as the money would come out of our joint bank account!

It was probably my dog who is really freaking sick of me not having a sidecar to take her on adventures.

 

[use2b_imp]

could this be SUGAR ?
hate even saying that but could sabotage be in the mix ?

The only person with access to my spare key is my wife and I surely hope not! Seeing as the money would come out of our joint bank account!

It was probably my dog who is really freaking sick of me not having a sidecar to take her on adventures.

The only person with access to my spare key is my wife and I surely hope not! Seeing as the money would come out of our joint bank account!

It was probably my dog who is really freaking sick of me not having a sidecar to take her on adventures.
Glad you still have a sense of humor and I hear what you are saying. my Bridgstone 100 got sugared at a football game one night and looked similar but it had a carburetor with a bowl like filter.
with fuel injection , filter , air filter i wonder if it is even possible .
at the same time whatever that stuff is , it got there in your fuel or air supply . good luck and thanks for posting the pictures

 

[jimgl3_imp]

can't help but wonder about octane... not that it would cause this, but still... this just looks like sh*t gas. really does. that sat a long time. also do you short shift a lot and keep rpms low. there actually is something to be said for blowing out the crap every once in a while...

 

[QUINTtastic_imp]

can't help but wonder about octane... not that it would cause this, but still... this just looks like sh*t gas. really does. that sat a long time. also do you short shift a lot and keep rpms low. there actually is something to be said for blowing out the crap every once in a while...

Nahh the gas station I use is on a long twisty road next to Lake Ontario so between the boats and bikes they go through a ton of 90 non-ethanol and they sell top tier gas. Granted I don’t know about the owner before me.

And no, not much short shifting here. My favorite thing about this bike is how much torque there is when I bang through the gears from a stop. I mostly upshift between 4-5k. When the rpm’s are low on this bike it’s a pretty dull ride. The bikes too perfect!

 

[LongRanger_imp]

Bent valve tells me there was water in the gas.

 

[JLEECB]

I had a 1990 Nissan 300zx 10 years ago. Loved that car. Filled it up at a local chain station I had been to several times. Busy station in busy part of town. My car ran wacky as he**. Wouldn't idle for ship, but once it got hotter no problem. I took it to my mechanic straight away and he drained the fuel. It wasn't gasoline. Best guess, pure ethanol. I had a receipt from the station showing i pumped the right fuel. I went after the gas station for repairs, and they begrudgingly did with gift cards to their gas station (real classy). Should have went after them for an engine. found out later it scorched the injectors and created a few other internal issues. I ended up just selling the car and moving to south east Asia. Life altering tank of gas right there.

Case and point, even its a busy station you've been to a hundred times, ship happens.

 

[QUINTtastic_imp]

Bent valve tells me there was water in the gas.

Sorry man, I appreciate the input but that makes zero sense for this problem. Unless someone dumped water in, which they didn’t cause it’s locked

I had a 1990 Nissan 300zx 10 years ago. Loved that car. Filled it up at a local chain station I had been to several times. Busy station in busy part of town. My car ran wacky as he**. Wouldn't idle for ship, but once it got hotter no problem. I took it to my mechanic straight away and he drained the fuel. It wasn't gasoline. Best guess, pure ethanol. I had a receipt from the station showing i pumped the right fuel. I went after the gas station for repairs, and they begrudgingly did with gift cards to their gas station (real classy). Should have went after them for an engine. found out later it scorched the injectors and created a few other internal issues. I ended up just selling the car and moving to south east Asia. Life altering tank of gas right there.

Case and point, even its a busy station you've been to a hundred times, ship happens.

Holy crap, that’s pretty darn crazy! Life huh?

 

[LongRanger_imp]

Bent valve tells me there was water in the gas.

Sorry man, I appreciate the input but that makes zero sense for this problem. Unless someone dumped water in, which they didn’t cause it’s locked

I had a 1990 Nissan 300zx 10 years ago. Loved that car. Filled it up at a local chain station I had been to several times. Busy station in busy part of town. My car ran wacky as he**. Wouldn't idle for ship, but once it got hotter no problem. I took it to my mechanic straight away and he drained the fuel. It wasn't gasoline. Best guess, pure ethanol. I had a receipt from the station showing i pumped the right fuel. I went after the gas station for repairs, and they begrudgingly did with gift cards to their gas station (real classy). Should have went after them for an engine. found out later it scorched the injectors and created a few other internal issues. I ended up just selling the car and moving to south east Asia. Life altering tank of gas right there.

Case and point, even its a busy station you've been to a hundred times, ship happens.

Holy crap, that’s pretty darn crazy! Life huh?

Sorry man, I appreciate the input but that makes zero sense for this problem. Unless someone dumped water in, which they didn’t cause it’s locked
I'm suggesting there could be water in the tanks at the filling station, not that someone popped open the tank on your bike. It happened to a car I once owned (bent valves and connecting rods). I think the carbon build-up is likely unrelated, but I'm certainly no mechanic. Good luck.

 

[QUINTtastic_imp]

Bent valve tells me there was water in the gas.

Sorry man, I appreciate the input but that makes zero sense for this problem. Unless someone dumped water in, which they didn’t cause it’s locked

I had a 1990 Nissan 300zx 10 years ago. Loved that car. Filled it up at a local chain station I had been to several times. Busy station in busy part of town. My car ran wacky as he**. Wouldn't idle for ship, but once it got hotter no problem. I took it to my mechanic straight away and he drained the fuel. It wasn't gasoline. Best guess, pure ethanol. I had a receipt from the station showing i pumped the right fuel. I went after the gas station for repairs, and they begrudgingly did with gift cards to their gas station (real classy). Should have went after them for an engine. found out later it scorched the injectors and created a few other internal issues. I ended up just selling the car and moving to south east Asia. Life altering tank of gas right there.

Case and point, even its a busy station you've been to a hundred times, ship happens.

Holy crap, that’s pretty darn crazy! Life huh?

Sorry man, I appreciate the input but that makes zero sense for this problem. Unless someone dumped water in, which they didn’t cause it’s locked
I'm suggesting there could be water in the tanks at the filling station, not that someone popped open the tank on your bike. It happened to a car I once owned (bent valves and connecting rods). I think the carbon build-up is likely unrelated, but I'm certainly no mechanic. Good luck.

Sorry man, I appreciate the input but that makes zero sense for this problem. Unless someone dumped water in, which they didn’t cause it’s locked
I'm suggesting there could be water in the tanks at the filling station, not that someone popped open the tank on your bike. It happened to a car I once owned (bent valves and connecting rods). I think the carbon build-up is likely unrelated, but I'm certainly no mechanic. Good luck.
Ahh, yeah water would have most likely burned off. What happened is that most likely carbon built up from not burning off which closed the gap between the valve and the piston, or carbon built up on the valve which didn’t let it seat properly. Or, I’m a cursed redhead with bad luck..