Electric vehicle charging in winter

[ride4now_imp]

Has anyone seen the most recent ‘Long Way’ series on Apple TV... Long Way Up? We’ve seen all 3 Long Way treks and thought this one was really good. With the current bitter cold in Texas and much of the country, it got me thinking about the problems that they were having on the show with getting the bikes to take a charge when it was so cold at the start of their trip. Unless that was a Harley issue, it sure seems to me that electric vehicles might not be very practical in winter, especially where it gets very cold, unless you have a heated garage. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

It has been known for a few decades in Canada. It started with the hydrogen fuel cell which might be best suited for Vancouver, BC. Fuel cells have a water byproduct which can be problematic in sub-freezing climates.

As many know, battery chemistry is challenged in sub-freezing climates. Toronto, Ontario in winter is no exception. Sure you still see Teslas and old Chevy Volts, etc. and they run. However, their range is curtailed significantly not because of the battery warm-up overhead, but the passengers need heat too and it isn't coming from any dino-burnin' internal combustion engine.

Charging batteries are difficult at -25C daytime temperatures. In terms of technology, we have some ways to go.

 

[Houtman_imp]

Electric cars leave me cold......

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

Electric cars leave me cold......

I suppose if people have nowhere to go (e.g. a small land mass country, or an island), electric for most folks makes more sense.

 

[Houtman_imp]

Electric cars leave me cold......

I suppose if people have nowhere to go (e.g. a small land mass country, or an island), electric for most folks makes more sense.

I suppose if people have nowhere to go (e.g. a small land mass country, or an island), electric for most folks makes more sense.
You mean in that situation they can just use a long extension cord when driving around ?

 

[LouA_imp]

I've often wondered about e-cars's heat. Do they have any kind of a/c for the summer? Don't own one and not shopping for one!

 

[jimgl3_imp]

it's funny, I was just thinking this morning, wonder how all the electric cars are doing amid the mid-west crisis...

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

lol - "extension cords" - Houtman.

Yeah, heat and A/C are not free on an EV.

A/C is not free on a dino-burnin' cage either, but at least the engine can motivate the compressor and generate extra electricity, where needed.

 

[bioman_imp]

We have a Tesla Model 3 for 2 years now, and sure enough: it is not a perfect Canadian winter vehicle. Main limitation is its range during colder (sub-zero) days: basically it will drop in half. It still does fine for my wife's 75km (one-way) daily commute. In summer it is true to its claimed range, so A/C doesn't seem to use as much energy as heating.

So far I have not observed any issue with the charging in our (unheated) garage. Possibly it is slower but that doesn't bother me as we typically charge the car overnight.

All in all: we are very happy with the car, despite all the critical notes I read on the omniscient internet. It drives soooo smoothly!

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

We have a Tesla Model 3 for 2 years now, and sure enough: it is not a perfect Canadian winter vehicle. Main limitation is its range during colder (sub-zero) days: basically it will drop in half. It still does fine for my wife's 75km (one-way) daily commute. In summer it is true to its claimed range, so A/C doesn't seem to use as much energy as heating.

So far I have not observed any issue with the charging in our (unheated) garage. Possibly it is slower but that doesn't bother me as we typically charge the car overnight.

All in all: we are very happy with the car, despite all the critical notes I read on the omniscient internet. It drives soooo smoothly!

There is no doubt the implementation will improve with technology. It will just take time like anything else.

 

[the Ferret]

Consumer reports did a test with a Tesla 3 and a Nissan Leaf and in 0-10 degree weather they got approx 1/2 the advertised range. They also took longer to charge. They also said a heated steering wheel and seats will warm you up faster than the heaters in the cars.

 

[jimgl3_imp]

I'm still stuck on the mental picture of someone running a gas or diesel genny to charge their electric car because the power is out!

and on the news last night they had some poor woman that unplugged everything in her home and only ran heat to warm home and electric bill was $600 !!! think if she had charged a car!

 

[Houtman_imp]

There is a lot of "electrifying " news these days.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

There is a lot of "electrifying " news these days.

... and most grids around the world are not ready for the extra loads of everyone with an EV in their driveway or an "eCB1100" in the garage.

Of course, the grid can be ready - but that would require upgrades. Those costs funding will come from, well, you know who.

 

[Houtman_imp]

We do save some power by not using the electric chairs anymore.....

 

[bioman_imp]

I'm still stuck on the mental picture of someone running a gas or diesel genny to charge their electric car because the power is out!

and on the news last night they had some poor woman that unplugged everything in her home and only ran heat to warm home and electric bill was $600 !!! think if she had charged a car!

Well, our house is also heated by electricity only (via so-called baseboard heaters). This is very common in my part of the woods (rural British Columbia). I don't think it is the most energy-efficient way of heating a house, but it does the job.

Regarding the car-charging + heating costs: we pay about CA $200 per month for electricity. (But we have no other energy costs, e.g. for natural gas). I think this is reasonable.

And in our case the electricity comes from our own little town which has its own hydro-power plant. So the electricity that powers our EV is reasonable green (or at least greener than the fuel that our other (ICE) car is gulping... .



P.S. Please let's not start an "environmental costs of EV batteries" thread!

 

[Houtman_imp]

There are some companies (Porsche and McLaren) working on a new efuel , gasoline made synthetically which is a clean " burning" as an electric vehicle. You have to think from wall to wheel when it comes to propel a car .

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

There are some companies (Porsche and McLaren) working on a new efuel , gasoline made synthetically which is a clean " burning" as an electric vehicle. You have to think from wall to wheel when it comes to propel a car .

I wonder if it would be sustainable? That always seems to be a problem.

 

[peterbaron]

I'm still stuck on the mental picture of someone running a gas or diesel genny to charge their electric car because the power is out!

and on the news last night they had some poor woman that unplugged everything in her home and only ran heat to warm home and electric bill was $600 !!! think if she had charged a car!

Well, our house is also heated by electricity only (via so-called baseboard heaters). This is very common in my part of the woods (rural British Columbia). I don't think it is the most energy-efficient way of heating a house, but it does the job.

Regarding the car-charging + heating costs: we pay about CA $200 per month for electricity. (But we have no other energy costs, e.g. for natural gas). I think this is reasonable.

And in our case the electricity comes from our own little town which has its own hydro-power plant. So the electricity that powers our EV is reasonable green (or at least greener than the fuel that our other (ICE) car is gulping... .



P.S. Please let's not start an "environmental costs of EV batteries" thread!

Well, our house is also heated by electricity only (via so-called baseboard heaters). This is very common in my part of the woods (rural British Columbia). I don't think it is the most energy-efficient way of heating a house, but it does the job.

Regarding the car-charging + heating costs: we pay about CA $200 per month for electricity. (But we have no other energy costs, e.g. for natural gas). I think this is reasonable.
In So/Ontario/GTA we pay monthly average of: C$175 = C$85 gas/heating/hot water tank + C$90 hydro/electric stove.
Conditions: two story-detached, three habitant + a small dog, average inside: +21*C in winter and +23*C in summer when a/c is on, programable thermostat.
No electric vehicles.

 

[Jfro5687_imp]

Funny how as you grow older so many things in life seem to go full circle. Some of the very first cars were electric, like 100 years ago, I just Googled and found the above, a Detroit Model D. That didn’t last.

In the 70’s and 80’s in the UK there was a thing called ‘Economy 7’ home heating that was pushed/promoted heavily. The idea was if you joined the scheme you paid less for electricity overnight and used it to heat up (brick) storage heaters bolted to the walls inside your home. Come daytime the power went off but the hot bricks kept giving off warmth, until night time and the cycle repeated itself. Bought our first house in 1991 and it had these things. Awful. Total crap. Gave it a year to see if we could get used to it but didn’t. It was very very expensive and they didn’t warm the home enough. Like blowing on a candle. So had a firm tear the lot out and had oil central heating installed instead (no gas in the village). Never looked back.

So, the point being, unless and until they (Governments) get the infrastructure right none of this stuff is gonna work.