Sam Mac_imp
Running like a top
Thread starter
Another one bites the dust.
https://rideapart.com/articles/ebr-goes
https://rideapart.com/articles/ebr-goes
EBR to close
- Thread starter Sam Mac_imp
- Start date
Sad news. Buell has a certain cachet and will be missed.
So hard on the employees and their families.
So hard on the employees and their families.
the Ferret
Road warrior
Shame, he has tried so hard.
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
This is a brutal business. First Victory, now Buell. I think unless you have a global marketing presence and cost-effective manufacturing, the financial viability of manufacturing and selling niche motorcycles is a challenge. Buell couldn't line up enough dealers willing to carry its bikes. How is Motus going to survive?
the Ferret
Road warrior
what are you doing...trying to get Stichill all riled up? lol
j/k Stichill
j/k Stichill
physics-teacher_imp
Running like a top
But after reading this, if Eric came to you and asked for a few million to help him get started AGAIN, would you loan him money? I don't want stock in any bank that would!
LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Agreed, I wouldn't either.
Elipten_imp
Road warrior
It is the issue of dreams versus reality. Many great products do not make it. Hard to overcome established brands even if not the best design. There is a lot to be said for a large dealer network and parts availability.
Hence the success of the Miata versus exotic sports cars as one example.
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Hence the success of the Miata versus exotic sports cars as one example.
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F800GT_imp
Running like a top
When Harley killed Buell, it did not kill only a brand, it killed the only chance the USA had to build a sport motorcycle. Based on the article of the OP, the thing that makes EBR close is the lack of dealers willing to sell EBR. And guess who has the largest network of dealers in the USA ? Harley. This is too sad.
nhawk7504_imp
Been there
How do you get past Ducati having the same bikes already? Not the same technology but a bike and motor people buy year in and year out. I still see more Harleys on the Northeast roads and almost none of anything else. People drive cars. We are also not awash in cash as a society these days. 25-30% of what you make goes to taxes of all kinds, if not more. Add in Health insurance premiums and deductibles, cars and insurance, rent or mortgage, condo fees, food, gas, and there is not much left. Median U.S. income $51,000.
Elipten_imp
Road warrior
That is the truth and hence now possible to get car loans of 7 years. When I was young car loans were 2 or 3 years nothing more!
Most young people over buy to feed there desires and extend the loan period. Me I buy only what I can pay cash for.
So a motorcycle is too expensive for most young people. Heck you can buy a Spark for what that CB1100 costs.
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Most young people over buy to feed there desires and extend the loan period. Me I buy only what I can pay cash for.
So a motorcycle is too expensive for most young people. Heck you can buy a Spark for what that CB1100 costs.
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LongRanger_imp
Road warrior
Income taxes used to be higher than 25-30%, and interest rates on vehicle loans were higher too. But it seems the price of new bikes has risen much more quickly than median incomes. $30k for a Goldwing or HD? That's more than the price of a family sedan. I don't recall that always being the case, but I could be mistaken.
Elipten_imp
Road warrior
Two thing have happened at least to increase vehicle prices, people want more features, and all the safety and environmental requirements.
The less units sold the more expensive design and fabrication costs are per unit.
So a bike from the 1970s is not an equal comparison to a bike today.
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The less units sold the more expensive design and fabrication costs are per unit.
So a bike from the 1970s is not an equal comparison to a bike today.
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the Ferret
Road warrior
Longranger the average family sedan these days is probably in the $37,000 range. A new Accord will actually set you back about $34K (my wife has been shopping for a new one)
I'm not sure how it all works out, but for comparison, the year I graduated, 1968, I know you could buy a new CB 750 for $1299 (a Bonneville, Commando or new Harley was more), a VW Beetle for $1899 (a Chevelle or Mustang was 25% more) and I was making $1.60 an hour.
1968
Average Cost of new house $14,950.00
Average Income per year $7,850.00
Average Monthly Rent $130.00
Gas per Gallon 34 cents Average
Cost of a new car $2,822.00
Movie Ticket $1.50
The Federal Hourly Minimum Wage $1.60 an hour.
Postage stamp .06
According to what I can find online in 2016 averages
Buy a house $379,800
monthly rent $1300
household income $55,755
movie ticket $10.49
postage stamp .47
Minimum wage $7.25
Cost of a new car $33,560
According to this inflation calculator
Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value From 1913-2026
if you paid $1299 for a 750 Honda in 1968, today that bike would cost $8960.00
conversely if you paid $12,199 for a bike today (msrp of a new 2017 EX?) in 1968 that bike would have cost $1768.80.95
picking up a new 2014 left over for $7500 is like paying $1087.47 in 1968 or way less than a new CB750 then
I'm not sure how it all works out, but for comparison, the year I graduated, 1968, I know you could buy a new CB 750 for $1299 (a Bonneville, Commando or new Harley was more), a VW Beetle for $1899 (a Chevelle or Mustang was 25% more) and I was making $1.60 an hour.
1968
Average Cost of new house $14,950.00
Average Income per year $7,850.00
Average Monthly Rent $130.00
Gas per Gallon 34 cents Average
Cost of a new car $2,822.00
Movie Ticket $1.50
The Federal Hourly Minimum Wage $1.60 an hour.
Postage stamp .06
According to what I can find online in 2016 averages
Buy a house $379,800
monthly rent $1300
household income $55,755
movie ticket $10.49
postage stamp .47
Minimum wage $7.25
Cost of a new car $33,560
According to this inflation calculator
Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value From 1913-2026
if you paid $1299 for a 750 Honda in 1968, today that bike would cost $8960.00
conversely if you paid $12,199 for a bike today (msrp of a new 2017 EX?) in 1968 that bike would have cost $1768.80.95
picking up a new 2014 left over for $7500 is like paying $1087.47 in 1968 or way less than a new CB750 then
Elipten_imp
Road warrior
But no $900 cell phones and $100/mo cell plans back then
But I recall a color 25" tv was serious money back then.
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But I recall a color 25" tv was serious money back then.
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F800GT_imp
Running like a top
A 2017 Accord Sedan LX 6-Speed Manual (assuming everyone on this forum can drive Manual) starting at $22,455 MSRP. If one doesn't go crazy with all the bell and whistles, one should be able to get a Honda Accord for about $26,000 OTD. If one doesn't mind a 2016 model, it should be less than 26k OTDThe ferret_imp said:
Source : http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan
Or one can get a Ford Fusion for less money than the Accord.
So going back to the point, any motorcycle above $17k buy you a very decent car. Only a handful of people can afford a motorcycle in the $20k - $30k range.
the Ferret
Road warrior
Lol yea you are not going to get my wife to drive a stripped down manual shift car. Neither do most people. 95% of all cars sold in the US are automatics and most are going to have plenty of ammenitities.
Harley Davidson sold about 168,000 motocycles last year, Indian Chiefs, GS and K model Beemers, Gold Wings, Touring and ADV Guzzi's, top shelf ADV and sport Ducati's, a Motus, a new Norton, etc and you'd be surprised how many people are willing to shell out $20K + for a motorcycle.
Boats, airplanes, vacation homes, overseas travel. Some people this coming weekend will be shelling out thousands for a single seat to watch a football game. The point being, cars are expensive, motorcycles are expensive, lots of things are expensive, yet people find a way to buy what they want to buy.
Harley Davidson sold about 168,000 motocycles last year, Indian Chiefs, GS and K model Beemers, Gold Wings, Touring and ADV Guzzi's, top shelf ADV and sport Ducati's, a Motus, a new Norton, etc and you'd be surprised how many people are willing to shell out $20K + for a motorcycle.
Boats, airplanes, vacation homes, overseas travel. Some people this coming weekend will be shelling out thousands for a single seat to watch a football game. The point being, cars are expensive, motorcycles are expensive, lots of things are expensive, yet people find a way to buy what they want to buy.
the Ferret
Road warrior
Yea we've had 3 four cylinder Accords. First one (1991) I put 283,000 miles on it and gave it to my daughter, who drove it another couple of years including 2 cross country trips. Second one (1996) I put 120,000 on, sold it to my son, who put another 100,000 on it and he sold it to his brother in law who put another 40,000 on it. The third (2006) she is driving now with 244,000 miles on it. (We've also had 2 Civics, a CRV, an Odyssey Van and my current Ridgeline) . All went over 200,000 miles (except my truck that has 42,000 on it, but since I retired I barely ever drive it... < 1000 miles last year). We are kinda Honda people lol.
We have just had excellent service out of our Hondas which is why she is looking at another for her retirement car. Problem with the 4 cyls now, unless you get the 5 speed stick shift, it comes with a CVT trans which we don't want. So it's either an V6 EX or a V6 Touring to get the regular gear driven transmission.
We have just had excellent service out of our Hondas which is why she is looking at another for her retirement car. Problem with the 4 cyls now, unless you get the 5 speed stick shift, it comes with a CVT trans which we don't want. So it's either an V6 EX or a V6 Touring to get the regular gear driven transmission.
