Doesn?t rev past 6000rpm, dies when riding

[grm24_imp]

Hey all,

Recently picked up a 2013 standard with 1300 miles. Bike is in excellent condition aesthetically, and seemed like it was perfect mechanically as well. Previous owner did all the maintenance and fluids and always kept in garage on a tender. Test rode a short distance and it is was fine.
After riding for about an hour, the bike seemed to start hesitating. When I pulled out of the highway it died at the light, didn’t really want to start back up but did, and kept dying as I would stop. Put fresh gas and injector cleaner but hasn’t made a difference.

The other day I went to ride again and it won’t rev past 6k after it’s warmed up. When cold, it’ll pull hard to redline, and doesn’t have any issues, but after warm, it wants to die and hesitates/sluggish. I was on the highway and downshift to pass, and it seemed like it just cut off/died and I started to pull off the highway but popped the clutch to see if it would bump start and then it picked back up and I was able to keep going.

Other day it died when I pulled off the highway and wouldn’t start, kept clicking like the battery was dead. I think the battery is okay since I don’t render it and it starts without issues when cold, even after a week or two with no riding.


No idea what’s going on or what to look for as I’ve usually worked on carbureted engines.

Anyone have this issue before?

 

[LongRanger_imp]

My 2014 did this exact thing once about two years ago, but not since then. I assumed it was bad gas, so I tanked up from a different station and the problem has never returned. Is it fixed? I have no idea.

 

[SportsterDoc]

My 2014 did this exact thing once about two years ago, but not since then. I assumed it was bad gas, so I tanked up from a different station and the problem has never returned. Is it fixed? I have no idea.

1. What is battery voltage at idle?

2. What is battery voltage at ~3,000 RPMs?

3. What is condition of both ends of both battery cables?

4. Re LongRanger's suggestion, how fresh is the fuel?

5. What is condition of spark plugs and cables?

 

[pekingduck]

Ditto Sportsterdoc.

Check the battery and battery connections first. You have running issues AND cranking issues. Unless it was changed, that battery is 6 years old already, and likely due for retirement.

 

[grm24_imp]

My 2014 did this exact thing once about two years ago, but not since then. I assumed it was bad gas, so I tanked up from a different station and the problem has never returned. Is it fixed? I have no idea.

1. What is battery voltage at idle?

2. What is battery voltage at ~3,000 RPMs?

3. What is condition of both ends of both battery cables?

4. Re LongRanger's suggestion, how fresh is the fuel?

5. What is condition of spark plugs and cables?

1. What is battery voltage at idle?

2. What is battery voltage at ~3,000 RPMs?

3. What is condition of both ends of both battery cables?

4. Re LongRanger's suggestion, how fresh is the fuel?

5. What is condition of spark plugs and cables?
I’ll have to get a new multimeter as mine is busted. But the battery cables look fine, no corrosion. I’ll have to pull the plugs and inspect them as well. Haven’t actually gotten into it yet, wanted to hopefully get a direction of where to start.

Ditto Sportsterdoc.

Check the battery and battery connections first. You have running issues AND cranking issues. Unless it was changed, that battery is 6 years old already, and likely due for retirement.

I’ll report back with the battery date.

 

[pekingduck]

Last year, the battery on my 2013 failed 100 miles from home with no prior warning. Starter relay would only chatter when trying to start, but it bump started and got me home without incident. Battery is always on a maintenance charger, and when I got home, voltage was 13.1, but dropped to 12.7 after an hour, so it got replaced.

In your case, you had problems taking off from a stop, where battery voltage may be lowest as it had been idling and the brake light was drawing power.

Battery Tender makes a nice digital voltmeter for about $15. It plugs into the charger cord for a really quick check, but it won't indicate with the engine revving. I now carry it in my Darien jacket (along with a pocket Li-ion jumper battery and cables).

.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

If not the battery, then check cabling for breakage and connectors. Sometimes heat and/or vibration can agitate an otherwise marginal electrical connection or subtle short to ground.

Think ignition and associated electrical, kill switch, fuel-related sensors, etc.

 

[Obleo]

I think the battery is toast, get a new one. Also I would put in about 3.5 ounces of sea foam and run it thru at least one tank maybe two , also find some ethanol free gas and try that.

 

[grm24_imp]

Took a look at the battery yesterday and it didn’t have a date on it, but it does look like the original battery. Looked at the cables and they seem fine. Going to try swapping in a new battery from another bike and seeing if that does it. I’ve ran sea foam through it once but plan on doing it another time. Will also try ethanol free gas.

It currently has a delkevic slip on, would that cause issues? I assume it would lean it out but not sure how the fuel map on these work to compensate for it.

 

[pekingduck]

Took a look at the battery yesterday and it didn’t have a date on it, but it does look like the original battery. Looked at the cables and they seem fine. Going to try swapping in a new battery from another bike and seeing if that does it. I’ve ran sea foam through it once but plan on doing it another time. Will also try ethanol free gas.

It currently has a delkevic slip on, would that cause issues? I assume it would lean it out but not sure how the fuel map on these work to compensate for it.

I certainly wouldn't worry about the fuel metering at this point. If the starter relay is chattering, it's a low voltage problem.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Took a look at the battery yesterday and it didn’t have a date on it, but it does look like the original battery. Looked at the cables and they seem fine. Going to try swapping in a new battery from another bike and seeing if that does it. I’ve ran sea foam through it once but plan on doing it another time. Will also try ethanol free gas.

It currently has a delkevic slip on, would that cause issues? I assume it would lean it out but not sure how the fuel map on these work to compensate for it.

I certainly wouldn't worry about the fuel metering at this point. If the starter relay is chattering, it's a low voltage problem.

Yep, post 3, questions 1-3

 

[grm24_imp]

Took a look at the battery yesterday and it didn’t have a date on it, but it does look like the original battery. Looked at the cables and they seem fine. Going to try swapping in a new battery from another bike and seeing if that does it. I’ve ran sea foam through it once but plan on doing it another time. Will also try ethanol free gas.

It currently has a delkevic slip on, would that cause issues? I assume it would lean it out but not sure how the fuel map on these work to compensate for it.

I certainly wouldn't worry about the fuel metering at this point. If the starter relay is chattering, it's a low voltage problem.

Yep, post 3, questions 1-3

Yep, post 3, questions 1-3
Going to pick up a new multimeter and get check on this. Cables seem fine.

 

[Jfro5687_imp]

I know its not the same but a couple of years ago my otherwise 100% reliable petrol car (that i had put 80k miles on BTW) started running roughly all of a sudden. Then it stalled and wouldn't start, wouldn't even turn over? Thankfully i was near home. After much head scratching i went with a friend and bought a new decent quality battery. Fitted it and touched nothing else. Fired up straight away and was perfect.

Battery was the original, about 6 years old i guess. Seems when they die, they die.

 

[SportsterDoc]

In the desert, battery life in a car or truck is usually only about 2 years.
Although there are exceptions, anything over 4 years on a M/C is doing very well.

However, I hesitate declaring a battery is needed without some basic checks.

Not that replacing a battery over 4 years old is not a reasonable investment, but good to check for no corrosion under the negative cable to motor/frame, even if it appears secure, etc.

We will probably learn that the battery is well under 12.6 volts, key off and drops below 10.5 when trying to start (bad cell).

 

[Houtman_imp]

Just get a new batterie , keep it simple as sooner or later it will be gone and you could be stranded and spend more than a new batterie. 4 years max and less in a very hot climate.

 

[grm24_imp]

In the desert, battery life in a car or truck is usually only about 2 years.
Although there are exceptions, anything over 4 years on a M/C is doing very well.

However, I hesitate declaring a battery is needed without some basic checks.

Not that replacing a battery over 4 years old is not a reasonable investment, but good to check for no corrosion under the negative cable to motor/frame, even if it appears secure, etc.

We will probably learn that the battery is well under 12.6 volts, key off and drops below 10.5 when trying to start (bad cell).

Didn’t check the voltage, just said screw it and got a new battery but it didn’t fix the issue. While riding today, issue started up again after riding for about 15-20 minutes. No issue of stalling just didn’t want to rev past 6k and if I down shift to where it was past 6k, it just hesitated and doesn’t accelerate anymore. Next step is pulling off the tank and investigating everything.

 

[max]

There are two temperature sensors on the engine;
1 ; engine oil temperature sensor ( sets a code and flashes orange cel when disconnected )
2 ; intake air tempreature sensor ( maybe sets a code and flashes orange cel when disconnected ).

We have not had an identical fault on this forum so i am a bit lost with this one, each one of those sensors can be disconnected individually and the engine may then run in a " limp home" mode that could well limit the engine to 6000 rpm.
This will be a very defined point on the rev couter and point to this particular mode.

The eot sensor is mounted on the oil channel on the back of the cylinders and has delicate contacts inside it, be careful not to mis-align these when plugging the connector back in. see pic.





The ait sensor is located opposite the air filter intake cover on the right hand side of the bike;



You could run the bike to operating temperature and disconnect one sensor at a time, if you disconnect one sensor and there is no difference in operation that may be the cause of the fault.

Just thinking that one sensor operates but is out of range or disconnected somehow for the ecm and puts it in limp mode.

Just thought it may be worth a try before removing the fuel tank ( bit involved ) and finding nothing wrong.

The fact that you stated the bike runs fine when cold makes me think all is functioning fine until the ecm gets the wrong information and limits the engine to a safe level.
Is this situation happening every time or just sometimes?

 

[Cormanus]

6K RPM seems high for limp home mode.

 

[max]

Cormanus you made me think, remember Dave had his breather tube blocked?
Could be the case here, to test this idea maybe go for a ride, wait until it slows down and open the fuel cap, if the air rushes in we have more things to consider.
This bike could also have the evap system that we don't have, who knows..........
Anyway here's a link that finds the article buried deep deep into that thread; http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=8120&pid=206115#pid206115
Another hint; this suction effect would show up sooner with a full tank of fuel and less so with a low fuel level in the tank.

 

[pekingduck]

I hope the new battery got rid of the cranking problem at least. There may be more than one problem, as it now isn't dying out.

When a bike is cold, it is given a slightly richer mixture until the engine warms up. A faulty temp sensor, one that is giving an inaccurate reading, will not give an FI code. Codes only appear when either sensor is unplugged, not if the sensor gives a wrong reading. Then the ECM falls back on a default value that would cause it to run safely, but not optimally. It would not allow it to die out or sputter, or to do something inconsistently. Sensors rarely fail.

If you pull the tank off, there is always the possibility that mice or other creatures may have chewed some wires and you're getting intermittent signal. Also check the air filter for blockage, like a possible nest. If you pull the plugs out, be very careful as they are small diameter threads, and could break easily if forced. They are also expensive, but you are very unlikely to need to replace them.

Check the fuel tank vent line for pinching or blockage - unplug it at the tank and blow into the line into the evaporative cannister under the bike. If that line were pinched/blocked, it could cause the fuel pump to deliver lower pressure. There is a fuel pump flow test that the manual outlines.

These things, plus what Max had said in post #17 won't cost anything. Let us know what you find.