Dealer shenanigans or it's how things are done?

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Came close to pulling the trigger today on a 2014 CB1100 Std. The dealer was advertising the bike at $9397 which, compared to all the other ads seemed like a really good price. I also learned that it included a Yoshimura RS-3 slip- on that was installed by the dealer. Sounds great, right? I get a finance break down and see the usual suspects: tax, license, doc, and freight fees. I also see a $575 "ADM" fee. I balk at the fee, not knowing what it is and am told it's an "additional dealer mark up" fee that covers putting the bike together (front wheel plus tightening bolts) and to "keep the store alive."

In the end, I called a time out. It just didn't feel right. Felt like I had been duped. Lured in by the "low price" only to have them add some arbitrary fee based on who knows what. I'd rather have seen the higher price up front without the fee that gets added on after the price is negotiated and agreed upon. Am I just naive? Is this what all dealers do? I looked at the paperwork for my VFR and there's nothing like this listed.

 

[Stealth128_imp]

Yes some dealers charge for shipping and set up. You may be able to talk them down. There not much mark up on a new bike. Perhaps they should have called it setup and freight. I don't think it's a bad deal plus you get a slip on. Harley charges crazy set up and freight perhaps they have them flown in by helicopter and have a well known celebrity put them together.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

Yes some dealers charge for shipping and set up. You may be able to talk them down. There not much mark up on a new bike. Perhaps they should have called it setup and freight. I don't think it's a bad deal plus you get a slip on. Harley charges crazy set up and freight perhaps they have them flown in by helicopter and have a well known celebrity put them together.

Thanks. But these guys already had, in addition to this fee, a freight charge. And set up consists of putting the front tire on and tightening bolts. I don't know that they were including the time it took to add the slip- on (they didn't say that was part of it), but they took it upon themselves to add it. I didn't ask for it. So, if freight is already being charged (just over $300), and "set- up" is minimal, it just feels like a sneaky way to get deeper into my pocket. And at a point when you're so close to riding away with the bike, they know most people will just eat it. Maybe I should have too. Guess that's what I'm trying to figure out.

I do appreciate your feedback! Maybe they'll let me pick the celebrity I want to do the set- up if I go back! I wonder how good Kate Upton is with a wrench. Who am I kidding, I'll check the bolts later just to watch her fiddle around with my bike.

 

[flynrider]

Came close to pulling the trigger today on a 2014 CB1100 Std. The dealer was advertising the bike at $9397 which, compared to all the other ads seemed like a really good price. I also learned that it included a Yoshimura RS-3 slip- on that was installed by the dealer. Sounds great, right? I get a finance break down and see the usual suspects: tax, license, doc, and freight fees. I also see a $575 "ADM" fee. I balk at the fee, not knowing what it is and am told it's an "additional dealer mark up" fee that covers putting the bike together (front wheel plus tightening bolts) and to "keep the store alive."

In the end, I called a time out. It just didn't feel right. Felt like I had been duped. Lured in by the "low price" only to have them add some arbitrary fee based on who knows what. I'd rather have seen the higher price up front without the fee that gets added on after the price is negotiated and agreed upon. Am I just naive? Is this what all dealers do? I looked at the paperwork for my VFR and there's nothing like this listed.

In any other business this would be called overhead and would be included in the price of the product. To this day, the "doc" fee still cracks me up. A dealer friend of mine refers to it as the "extra profit fee".

Don't get me wrong, I think dealers should make a profit on every bike they sell. I just take exception to the practice of luring buyers with a low price, then attempting to tack on all of their profit at the finance desk. When I shop I ask for an out the door price. They can include whatever fees by whatever name they want to call them, as long as the OTD price remains the same. That's really the only way to know the price of a bike before you sit down to sign.

While the fee game is almost ubiquitous in cars sales, thankfully most bike dealers I've dealt with choose not to play it.

 

[Blockhead_imp]

I guess I'm fortunate that in my neck of the woods there are alot of dealers competing for business and I've been able to avoid paying additional "freight or ADM" type fees...I've bought three bikes in the last three years and have never paid any added fees other than tax and title.

 

[Elipten_imp]

Look elsewhere, bad dealer.


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[kDiqq_imp]

I feel your pain. If there had been a CB1100 close to me, other than the one I have, I would have done it. Asking was something like $9200. After all the BS fees and taxes, $11900!!! I flipped out. Told him $10k out the door or I walked. Finally settled on $10.5k out the door. I said okay, I will talk to the bank. Next day the sales rep is texting me info about the bike and busts out with 'hey can your bank hurry, someone else is looking to buy your bike'. I lost it. The bank already approved my loan. I ripped in to the guy hard. He then said 'oh he left, I can pull it off the showroom floor'.

The fun didn't stop there.

My bank gets in touch, all work is done. I drive 1.5hrs in traffic to get there and pick it up and some 19 year old punk in finance is finishing my paperwork. He told my bank to book my loan for 10964. 464 over what we agreed. I, again, lost it. He starts getting an attitude with me and starts saying I'm full of crap and need to come back Monday to get the bike. No. You're fixing this and I'm riding this weekend. More talking. Finally he says I will come Monday for reimbursement check and I can take the bike. Picking up the bike and some service tech is asking how I want the throttle adjusted. Which is cool cause I asked early in the day if they would take the horrible lash out. Good to see it getting done now.

The fun still hasn't stopped.

I call Monday to let them know I'm an hour away and coming to get my check. Punk kid says 'yeah bro we will have it ready'. When I get there he tells the receptionist to go make it. She explains it takes a while and she will do it tomorrow. He makes her do it that day but only after I've arrived. How long does it take it get a check? 1 hour. How long does it take for his supervisor to walk over from next door cause he doesn't want to bother him? An additional 2 hours. I lost it again.

My intent was not to have a missing contest but to let you know, you're not alone. If you ever have the chance, find a dealer who is interested in taking care of you. And at least I haven't heard of anyone getting dragged through the mud like I did. Most unprofessonal place in the world. Honda of Houston.

 

[HikerToo_imp]

what was the total OTD price, that's what it comes down too?
If you're OK with it or not.
And if possible compare at another dealer to see if they are in line
Although it does seem odd a dealer adding aftermarket pipes on a Honda, never seen that before?

 

[CIP57_imp]

We have a few dealer in the metro NY area the do the same thing. After years of buying bikes you weed them out. There is one dealer NEW YORK HONDA YAMAHA in Long Island City the owner name Darin, straight shooter the price advertised is out the door plus tax. I usually shop by phone and than go to my dealer with the lowest price.

 

[emptysea]

I guess I'm kind of with Flynrider on this, at least to the extent that it comes down to the OTD price. What difference does it make in the long run if you were lured in by one price, but get the bike at a price you are willing to pay?

I don't know of any vehicle type, other than possibly a riding mower, that advertises the out the door price. You go in, negotiate a price, and either walk out or ride out. In fact, having the ADM listed gives you power because you know that they can knock some or all of that off and still make money on the bike.

Still, though, I'm a big proponent of going with your gut and if you were getting a bad feeling about how the dealer was handling the transaction, then walking away is probably the right thing.

 

[ClassicVW_imp]

I wish everyone would stop defending the dealer. Yes, he's entitled to make a profit. Yes, he can charge $5000 over MSRP if he feels like it. (See- VW New Beetle and many years of Harley wait lists) What he can't do is post one sale price and then spring another on you at the last minute. If there are extra fees they have to be mentioned in the fine print of whatever ad the buyer saw the price in. Anything else is not legal.

The ad gets you in, and then they can work you over saying- "This is the price. Do you really want to schlep to other dealers and waste your time only to find the bike has been sold, or they also have these fees? You're already here, we may as well do the deal now, no?"

 

[pechorin75_imp]

I tend to agree about the dealer fee stuff. I don't know if it's false advertising per se (there's undoubtedly some tiny print somewhere in the ad), but it's certainly misleading, and wouldn't give me a good feeling about a dealership. That said, the others are correct that in the end, it's the bottom line that counts, however they arrive there. In this day and age I'd call or email about the OTD price, no wishy-washy, before I ever set foot in the place...no reason to walk into the showroom if you don't need to.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

I guess I'm kind of with Flynrider on this, at least to the extent that it comes down to the OTD price. What difference does it make in the long run if you were lured in by one price, but get the bike at a price you are willing to pay?

I don't know of any vehicle type, other than possibly a riding mower, that advertises the out the door price. You go in, negotiate a price, and either walk out or ride out. In fact, having the ADM listed gives you power because you know that they can knock some or all of that off and still make money on the bike.

Still, though, I'm a big proponent of going with your gut and if you were getting a bad feeling about how the dealer was handling the transaction, then walking away is probably the right thing.

You're absolutely right. Bottom line is OTD price. And, in the end, it was still at a price I could afford and was willing to pay. I walked because it didn't sit well with me that they were deceptive in their pricing. I'll pay more if it's to someone I can trust. That goes for mechanics, electricians, hitmen, and certainly car and motorcycle dealers. I don't want to give my money to someone who is trying to get over on me. Even if, after all is said and done, they come out the same or even less than the competition. I know it's nothing personal and it's a sales tactic. Still ...

 

[DGShannon_imp]

I tend to agree about the dealer fee stuff. I don't know if it's false advertising per se (there's undoubtedly some tiny print somewhere in the ad), but it's certainly misleading, and wouldn't give me a good feeling about a dealership. That said, the others are correct that in the end, it's the bottom line that counts, however they arrive there. In this day and age I'd call or email about the OTD price, no wishy-washy, before I ever set foot in the place...no reason to walk into the showroom if you don't need to.

Fully agree. Fortunately, I live in Houston where there are several dealers. It took me almost two months of communicating back and forth, relating my best price from dealer X to dealer Y to see if they would beat that. Once I had a new low price, I would start the round robin again. All said and done with, I ended up with a 2013 fresh from the crate, for $8,678 out the door. Didn't matter to me what fees were in that total number. In fact, there was all sorts of stuff in there, but the magic was that there were $1,100 worth of dealer incentive credits added in to offset the cost.

 

[kDiqq_imp]

I tend to agree about the dealer fee stuff. I don't know if it's false advertising per se (there's undoubtedly some tiny print somewhere in the ad), but it's certainly misleading, and wouldn't give me a good feeling about a dealership. That said, the others are correct that in the end, it's the bottom line that counts, however they arrive there. In this day and age I'd call or email about the OTD price, no wishy-washy, before I ever set foot in the place...no reason to walk into the showroom if you don't need to.

Fully agree. Fortunately, I live in Houston where there are several dealers. It took me almost two months of communicating back and forth, relating my best price from dealer X to dealer Y to see if they would beat that. Once I had a new low price, I would start the round robin again. All said and done with, I ended up with a 2013 fresh from the crate, for $8,678 out the door. Didn't matter to me what fees were in that total number. In fact, there was all sorts of stuff in there, but the magic was that there were $1,100 worth of dealer incentive credits added in to offset the cost.

Fully agree. Fortunately, I live in Houston where there are several dealers. It took me almost two months of communicating back and forth, relating my best price from dealer X to dealer Y to see if they would beat that. Once I had a new low price, I would start the round robin again. All said and done with, I ended up with a 2013 fresh from the crate, for $8,678 out the door. Didn't matter to me what fees were in that total number. In fact, there was all sorts of stuff in there, but the magic was that there were $1,100 worth of dealer incentive credits added in to offset the cost. I'm just curious, since I'm in Houston as well, which dealer did you go to?

 

[DGShannon_imp]

I tend to agree about the dealer fee stuff. I don't know if it's false advertising per se (there's undoubtedly some tiny print somewhere in the ad), but it's certainly misleading, and wouldn't give me a good feeling about a dealership. That said, the others are correct that in the end, it's the bottom line that counts, however they arrive there. In this day and age I'd call or email about the OTD price, no wishy-washy, before I ever set foot in the place...no reason to walk into the showroom if you don't need to.

Fully agree. Fortunately, I live in Houston where there are several dealers. It took me almost two months of communicating back and forth, relating my best price from dealer X to dealer Y to see if they would beat that. Once I had a new low price, I would start the round robin again. All said and done with, I ended up with a 2013 fresh from the crate, for $8,678 out the door. Didn't matter to me what fees were in that total number. In fact, there was all sorts of stuff in there, but the magic was that there were $1,100 worth of dealer incentive credits added in to offset the cost.

Fully agree. Fortunately, I live in Houston where there are several dealers. It took me almost two months of communicating back and forth, relating my best price from dealer X to dealer Y to see if they would beat that. Once I had a new low price, I would start the round robin again. All said and done with, I ended up with a 2013 fresh from the crate, for $8,678 out the door. Didn't matter to me what fees were in that total number. In fact, there was all sorts of stuff in there, but the magic was that there were $1,100 worth of dealer incentive credits added in to offset the cost. I'm just curious, since I'm in Houston as well, which dealer did you go to?

Wild West Motorsports. Came down to them and Lunsford. The others (Pasadena Honda, Stubbs) just didn't want to sell theirs bad enough yet.

 

[kDiqq_imp]

Did you check out Mancuso? They have had one for centuries.. Collecting dust lol I went there to have my bike looked at. I also considered Lunsford, but I was picky and demanded a 6 speed

Congrats on the CB! Hopefully we cross paths sometime.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

There must be a hundred different factors to consider from the dealer's perspective...but in the end I guess it's sort of a gamble when it comes to pricing on a bike that isn't in strong demand. I was looking at lightly used '13s back in February. One in particular (which I ended up buying) was $7,750. At the time, a local dealer had a leftover new '13 listed at $9,000 (not including tax, tag, etc.). I'd have paid extra to have a brand-new bike, but wasn't prepared to pay $1250 extra, so I checked to see if they'd come down. Told them the situation, said I'd seriously consider their bike at $8,500. Nope...absolutely weren't gonna budge on that price.

So I thanked them for their time, said to let me know if they changed their mind, etc. Never heard back. The same bike is still sitting there, now listed at $7,500 going into the winter.

 

[metallyguitarded_imp]

There must be a hundred different factors to consider from the dealer's perspective...but in the end I guess it's sort of a gamble when it comes to pricing on a bike that isn't in strong demand. I was looking at lightly used '13s back in February. One in particular (which I ended up buying) was $7,750. At the time, a local dealer had a leftover new '13 listed at $9,000 (not including tax, tag, etc.). I'd have paid extra to have a brand-new bike, but wasn't prepared to pay $1250 extra, so I checked to see if they'd come down. Told them the situation, said I'd seriously consider their bike at $8,500. Nope...absolutely weren't gonna budge on that price.

So I thanked them for their time, said to let me know if they changed their mind, etc. Never heard back. The same bike is still sitting there, now listed at $7,500 going into the winter.

You're probably right. I'm sure there are considerations I'm just not aware of. It seems to me that the main consideration is and should be, make a profit while treating the customer right. Build a relationship with the customer so that he/she comes back. And, as we all know, motorcyclist tend to come back for new bikes over and over, long before our current bikes need to be replaced.

I'm going to decide upon an OTD price I'm willing to pay. I have time on my side. The '15's are right around the corner. This same dealership has '13's still on the showroom floor. I imagine the '14 I'm eyeing has been there for a while. They don't seem to be flying out the door around here. If they were, I'd understand the "additional dealer markup." Wouldn't like it, but I'd understand it. You want a hot commodity, you're going to have to pay more for it. Even more than mfg. suggested in some cases.
My thread is really negative, huh? Sorry about that. Didn't mean to inject that into the forum. Enough of me whining! I'm in love with the CB1100. it will be mine. Not sure when, but in the near future. Lesson learned on my part. Thanks for all the input.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

There must be a hundred different factors to consider from the dealer's perspective...but in the end I guess it's sort of a gamble when it comes to pricing on a bike that isn't in strong demand. I was looking at lightly used '13s back in February. One in particular (which I ended up buying) was $7,750. At the time, a local dealer had a leftover new '13 listed at $9,000 (not including tax, tag, etc.). I'd have paid extra to have a brand-new bike, but wasn't prepared to pay $1250 extra, so I checked to see if they'd come down. Told them the situation, said I'd seriously consider their bike at $8,500. Nope...absolutely weren't gonna budge on that price.

So I thanked them for their time, said to let me know if they changed their mind, etc. Never heard back. The same bike is still sitting there, now listed at $7,500 going into the winter.

You're probably right. I'm sure there are considerations I'm just not aware of. It seems to me that the main consideration is and should be, make a profit while treating the customer right. Build a relationship with the customer so that he/she comes back. And, as we all know, motorcyclist tend to come back for new bikes over and over, long before our current bikes need to be replaced.

I'm going to decide upon an OTD price I'm willing to pay. I have time on my side. The '15's are right around the corner. This same dealership has '13's still on the showroom floor. I imagine the '14 I'm eyeing has been there for a while. They don't seem to be flying out the door around here. If they were, I'd understand the "additional dealer markup." Wouldn't like it, but I'd understand it. You want a hot commodity, you're going to have to pay more for it. Even more than mfg. suggested in some cases.
My thread is really negative, huh? Sorry about that. Didn't mean to inject that into the forum. Enough of me whining! I'm in love with the CB1100. it will be mine. Not sure when, but in the near future. Lesson learned on my part. Thanks for all the input.

I didn't think it was particularly negative. I'd have had the same reaction to being blindsided by a nearly $600 fee at the last minute.

Unrelated note, does anybody else find it odd that a dealer would install an aftermarket pipe on a brand-new bike?