Clutch tips

[capz65_imp]

Came across an article on clutch less shifting. Im reluctant to adopt it completely but here's a related question. Out of habit I pull the clutch in all the way to the bar when shifting. Now I see it's not necessary. So after 2nd, how far do you really have to pull the clutch to shift and avoid damaging the gearbox?

 

[the Ferret]

Your personal choice. I always use the clutch when shifting a manual transmission bike and see no upside to not using one, and a possible big downside.

 

[mvk24_imp]

I dont use the clutch for most highway riding especially if I'm cruising with 1 hand.

2014 CB1100, 1981 KZ440 LTD, 1993 Yamaha XJ600 Seca, 1994 Yamaha XJ600 Seca

 

[capz65_imp]

I doubt I'll go clutch less. See no point. But still want to know what's happening mechanically when you shift with the clutch 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 in compared to full.

 

[mvk24_imp]

I doubt I'll go clutch less. See no point. But still want to know what's happening mechanically when you shift with the clutch 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 in compared to full.

You're just playing with the friction zone, you generally don't have to pull the entire way to the handlebar for the clutch to already be at full friction.

2014 CB1100, 1981 KZ440 LTD, 1993 Yamaha XJ600 Seca, 1994 Yamaha XJ600 Seca

 

[LongRanger_imp]

My bikes have Shift Assist (to allow clutchless shifting) but I still disengage the clutch with every shift.

One thing for you to try: when upshifting, lightly preload the shift lever before you intend to shift, but don’t actually shift up. Just apply a little upward pressure with your toe. Then, when you want to shift, quickly disengage the clutch just a bit — just into the friction zone — and apply a bit more upward pressure to the shift lever. Your bike will upshift quickly and smoothly. After a while, this will become second nature and it won’t harm your gearbox or clutch.

BTW, the CB1100 gearbox is one of the nicest and smoothest I’ve experienced.

 

[GoldOxide_imp]

My bikes have Shift Assist (to allow clutchless shifting) but I still disengage the clutch with every shift.

One thing for you to try: when upshifting, lightly preload the shift lever before you intend to shift, but don’t actually shift up. Just apply a little upward pressure with your toe. Then, when you want to shift, quickly disengage the clutch just a bit — just into the friction zone — and apply a bit more upward pressure to the shift lever. Your bike will upshift quickly and smoothly. After a while, this will become second nature and it won’t harm your gearbox or clutch.

BTW, the CB1100 gearbox is one of the nicest and smoothest I’ve experienced.

(+1)

 

[mvk24_imp]

you can chop the throttle and power shift (has to be done quickly) . just needs to unload the shift dogs on the gears. thats how speed shifters work.

Yea thats explained in that video above if you want to see it visually. As soon as you let off the throttle the tension on the cogs is released for a split second

Also for anyone worried if you dont time it right it just won't shift, not destroy anything lol

2014 CB1100, 1981 KZ440 LTD, 1993 Yamaha XJ600 Seca, 1994 Yamaha XJ600 Seca

 

[the Ferret]

worked in the industry for 17 years. Saw the results of transmission dogs and gears that weren't shifted properly WITH a clutch. If you have time to back off the throttle you have time to pull in and release the clutch IMO. Maybe if I were in a road race where every millisecond counted per lap...maybe (but I doubt if I'd do it anyway), but for a 550 pound, 85 hp street bike? What's the point? Just my opinion, your bike, do what you like with it.

 

[mvk24_imp]

worked in the industry for 17 years. Saw the results of transmission dogs and gears that weren't shifted properly WITH a clutch. If you have time to back off the throttle you have time to pull in and release the clutch IMO. Maybe if I were in a road race where every millisecond counted per lap...maybe (but I doubt if I'd do it anyway), but for a 550 pound, 85 hp street bike? What's the point? Just my opinion, your bike, do what you like with it.

Good point ferret I have not had that opportunity to see the damage like you have

2014 CB1100, 1981 KZ440 LTD, 1993 Yamaha XJ600 Seca, 1994 Yamaha XJ600 Seca

 

[the Ferret]

Bent shift forks, chipped gears, rounded dogs, and bikes jumping out of second gear was pretty common from guys " power shifting" into second while riding aggressively. Google " motorcycle jumping out of second gear" and you'll still find lots of threads across many forums about it, although less it seems in the last couple of years, probably due to manufacturers installing specially designed electronic quick shifters on performance models from the factory. My sons MT 10 has a factory quick shifter that works on upshifts only, but not on downshifts. Yamaha still recommends using the clutch for downshifts. Offroads BMW K1600 I think works up or down ( using a micro switch to cut power and thus load on the transmission during gear shifts)

If there is absolutely no load on the trans, it could probably be shifted without a clutch with little to no damage, but first, why bother? what is the upside? And secondly are you absolutely positively sure you are doing it right to insure there is no transmission damage?

Like I said how one treats one's own bike, is one's own business.

 

[mvk24_imp]

Bent shift forks, chipped gears, rounded dogs, and bikes jumping out of second gear was pretty common from guys " power shifting" into second while riding aggressively. Google " motorcycle jumping out of second gear" and you'll still find lots of threads across many forums about it, although less it seems in the last couple of years, probably due to manufacturers installing specially designed electronic quick shifters on performance models from the factory. My sons MT 10 has a factory quick shifter that works on upshifts only, but not on downshifts. Yamaha still recommends using the clutch for downshifts. Offroads BMW K1600 I think works up or down ( using a micro switch to cut power and thus load on the transmission during gear shifts)

If there is absolutely no load on the trans, it could probably be shifted without a clutch with little to no damage, but first, why bother? what is the upside? And secondly are you absolutely positively sure you are doing it right to insure there is no transmission damage?

Like I said how one treats one's own bike, is one's own business.

It sounds like you ALMOST care about the well being of the bike enough to start washing it!

2014 CB1100, 1981 KZ440 LTD, 1993 Yamaha XJ600 Seca, 1994 Yamaha XJ600 Seca

 

[the Ferret]

:rofl:

 

[peterbaron]

Bent shift forks, chipped gears, rounded dogs, and bikes jumping out of second gear was pretty common from guys " power shifting" into second while riding aggressively. Google " motorcycle jumping out of second gear" and you'll still find lots of threads across many forums about it, although less it seems in the last couple of years, probably due to manufacturers installing specially designed electronic quick shifters on performance models from the factory. My sons MT 10 has a factory quick shifter that works on upshifts only, but not on downshifts. Yamaha still recommends using the clutch for downshifts. Offroads BMW K1600 I think works up or down ( using a micro switch to cut power and thus load on the transmission during gear shifts)

If there is absolutely no load on the trans, it could probably be shifted without a clutch with little to no damage, but first, why bother? what is the upside? And secondly are you absolutely positively sure you are doing it right to insure there is no transmission damage?

Like I said how one treats one's own bike, is one's own business.

It sounds like you ALMOST care about the well being of the bike enough to start washing it!

2014 CB1100, 1981 KZ440 LTD, 1993 Yamaha XJ600 Seca, 1994 Yamaha XJ600 Seca

It sounds like you ALMOST care about the well being of the bike enough to start washing it!

:rofl:

Ferret, I like your answer

 

[the Ferret]

Bent shift forks, chipped gears, rounded dogs, and bikes jumping out of second gear was pretty common from guys " power shifting" into second while riding aggressively. Google " motorcycle jumping out of second gear" and you'll still find lots of threads across many forums about it, although less it seems in the last couple of years, probably due to manufacturers installing specially designed electronic quick shifters on performance models from the factory. My sons MT 10 has a factory quick shifter that works on upshifts only, but not on downshifts. Yamaha still recommends using the clutch for downshifts. Offroads BMW K1600 I think works up or down ( using a micro switch to cut power and thus load on the transmission during gear shifts)

If there is absolutely no load on the trans, it could probably be shifted without a clutch with little to no damage, but first, why bother? what is the upside? And secondly are you absolutely positively sure you are doing it right to insure there is no transmission damage?

Like I said how one treats one's own bike, is one's own business.

It sounds like you ALMOST care about the well being of the bike enough to start washing it!

2014 CB1100, 1981 KZ440 LTD, 1993 Yamaha XJ600 Seca, 1994 Yamaha XJ600 Seca

It sounds like you ALMOST care about the well being of the bike enough to start washing it!

:rofl:

Ferret, I like your answer

It sounds like you ALMOST care about the well being of the bike enough to start washing it!

:rofl:

Ferret, I like your answer

Well he has a point

 

[SportsterDoc]

worked in the industry for 17 years. Saw the results of transmission dogs and gears that weren't shifted properly WITH a clutch. If you have time to back off the throttle you have time to pull in and release the clutch IMO. Maybe if I were in a road race where every millisecond counted per lap...maybe (but I doubt if I'd do it anyway), but for a 550 pound, 85 hp street bike? What's the point? Just my opinion, your bike, do what you like with it.

I do not have as much experience as the ferret, but I did some clutch and trans repair when I operated Cycle Tuning Unlimited in 70s and 80s. One was for the owner of a local independent auto parts, where I had an account. He asked if I would check out his son's dirt bike (not a common European brand): Broken dogs, bent shift forks.
I ordered all but one part, a bent shift fork...just not available. I heated and straightened the one that could not be replaced. It should have then been heat-treated, but dad wanted to minimize cost. I think it worked fine for quite some time, but probably shifted thereafter with MUCH more care!

 

[LongRanger_imp]

Doc, long time, no hear.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Doc, long time, no hear.

Yep, 5 months, but no post seemed to benefit from my 2 cents.

How is Evergreen?

Last time I was in Colorado, August 2020, I70 was closed due to fires
Time before was February-March 2019, when I70 was closed due to avalanches.

Thinking just this week about making a trip to Sun Sports Unlimited in Gunnison to purchase a 2022 Yamaha XT250, since I could register it at my daughter's address in Denver. However, local dealer is trying to order one and I want to avoid going around him.

 

[Charlie Bravo_imp]

My bikes have Shift Assist (to allow clutchless shifting) but I still disengage the clutch with every shift.

One thing for you to try: when upshifting, lightly preload the shift lever before you intend to shift, but don’t actually shift up. Just apply a little upward pressure with your toe. Then, when you want to shift, quickly disengage the clutch just a bit — just into the friction zone — and apply a bit more upward pressure to the shift lever. Your bike will upshift quickly and smoothly. After a while, this will become second nature and it won’t harm your gearbox or clutch.

BTW, the CB1100 gearbox is one of the nicest and smoothest I’ve experienced.

I've been shifting like that for years.

 

[j3gq_imp]

@LongRm Let’s say there was a benefit to all this. Now ask yourself, is there a way to shift gears this way and evaluate with certainty whether it does any harm, e.g. affects the lifetime. If the answer is No, and I think it is, why take the risk.
Nevertheless, I agree what you describe works smoothly.
And one question, why is downshifting different?