Clutch Point of Engagement & Front End Vibration

[2017EX_imp]

I am no newbie to Motorcycles with 15 owned over the years, so I do not know if the two issues I have with my 2017 EX are mechanical adjustments or just getting used to a different bike. I traded in a Harley to get the EX. The Harley clutch started to grab with the lever about 1/4 inch off the grip. When I rode the EX home from the dealer, the clutch did not start to grab until the clutch lever was between 1/2 to 2/3 released. I also noticed slight up/down vibration on the front end that kicked in around 38 MPH. Back to the dealer, and dropped it off a week later, for the day. Now, my old High School motorcycle buddy has worked on every Honda imaginable over the years. He just bought a new 214 Standard. He told me he does a hydraulic flush and slave bleed every two years on his bikes, and since his new bike had sat for at least 3 years ( mine sat for about 5 months since manufacture ) he did a flush and bleed with new fluid. Afterwards, he said his clutch started to grab with the lever about 1/4 inch off the grip. I told the dealer about this. Picked my bike up and rode home. The dealers response was to set the clutch lever adjuster at the last setting, #5 ( it had been at the middle setting #3 ). The grab point has improved some, but still starts to grab at about half release of the lever. The front end up/down vibration, which is now even worse, was addressed by the dealer by setting the fork preload adjustment to the 4th ring which is even softer than the spec setting of 3rd ring on the adjuster, and letting 1 LB. of tire pressure out of both tires! I had just set both tire pressures at spec, cold the day before with a digital tire gauge. For some reason the fork preload factory setting is second ring on the adjuster for the Standard model, whereas the factory setting for my EX is the 3rd ring. So, is this a getting used to it situation, a dealer mechanic not doing the right thing, or both?

 

[Lord Popgun]

I'm not really going to be able to help with proper fork pre-load, etc, but those who can will need to know your weight.

I only weigh ~150lbs and the stock setting is good for me, but I did go up one click on the shocks. The lever adjustement is for reach and I have girl size hands (and feet ) and set both mine at 4. That would make the apparent engagement point move. But the clutch is hydraulic and there is no adjustment for it.

Like your buddy, I change the fluid in the clutch and brakes every 2 years. Its hydroscopic so its a good idea to do so, and is easy.

 

[curlyjoe]

The '17 CBs have a slipper clutch so maybe the point of engagement you are seeing is normal vs the older CBs.

Maybe the up/down vibration is due to the front wheel being out of balance? Since it's a spoked wheel, it's possible it needs to be trued too.

 

[2017EX_imp]

Thanks to popgun and curlyjoe for the input. I think I will live with the clutch and try to get used to it, at least until the first service. I would be curious as to where the clutch starts to grab for other members though. Since it is a hydraulic clutch, with no adjustment, the clutch slave bleed my buddy did on his might be the only other factor, it is much better than it was, and the #5 setting on the clutch lever is the last one with no more settings past that. That said, it is not slipping, so we shall see. At 190, I weigh 40 Lbs. more than popgun. This morning I set the fork preload back to factory, and tire pressure back to spec. Remember, the dealer had set preload even softer ( 4th ring, stock is third ring ) and let out 1 Lb. pressure from both tires, which was worse than original settings, to the extent my mirrors were vibrating on the way home. It occurred to me that with the dealer softer preload being worse, the stiffer stock preload may have had a dampening effect, as the up/down vibration does not start until 38-40 mph. The dealer said he jacked up the front end and spun the front wheel, and the wheel was true. Then it dawned on me...there are no wheel weights on the rim or spokes. Just as curlyjoe suggested, I think the front wheel may well be out of balance. Every spoke wheel bike I have ever owned had balance weights attached to one or more spokes, and even my Harley mag front wheel had a stick on balancing weight on the rim. Back to the dealer this week for a front wheel balance.

 

[Lord Popgun]

2017EX, I see. I though you were taking about suspension setup. I would agree with you that the wheels are not balanced for some reason.

And to be clear, Curly was not talking about a SLIPPING clutch, but a SLIPPER clutch. Here is a link to a Motorcyclist magazine video that explains them, if you don't already know.

 

[2017EX_imp]

No worries popgun, I knew curlyjoe was referring to a clutch slip mechanism to avoid downshift braking problems at too high an rpm. So, when I referred to my clutch not slipping, I was referring to proper up-shift function. We are on the same page, my thanks, for checking, and glad you did.

 

[flynrider]

Since the '17 clutch is different from any previous years, you'll probably want to compare it's behavior with other '17 models.

Personally, I thought the same about the clutch on my '13 when I first got it. I set the lever adjustment to grab as early as possible. It still seemed a bit to far out for me, but there wasn't much I could do about it and soon got used to it. My previous bike had a cable operated clutch and I always adjusted it to hit the friction point very early.

 

[the Ferret]

Without going out for a test ride, I can't tell you where my clutch engages lol

As far as settings and tire pressures

Front brake I have on 4
Clutch I have set on 3
Front fork I have 4 rings showing
Rear shocks are on softest setting (in deepest slot)

I have Michelin PR3 tires with
Front 36 pounds
Rear 40 pounds

I weigh 182 out of the shower and 204 in riding gear if memory serves me... Right around 200 at any rate

I would describe my riding style as quick and smooth, without using a lot of rpms. Usually a gear higher than others. Deep apexer maintaining a lot of cornering speed.

 

[SpamJ_imp]

I picked up my CB 1100 on Friday and also have a rhythmic front end vibration. When I talked to the dealer on Saturday they said it might be related to tires as the Dunlops have been returned on occasion. I will be looking for either a balance or a new tire during my first service.

 

[the Ferret]

Ok just rode 41 miles. After 39 1/2 miles I still couldn't tell you where my clutch engaged because I wasn't thinking about it, just riding, and truth be told on this mornings loop, there aren't very many stops, and it's difficult to tell in normal shifting lol. So when I got to my street, I stopped and checked a couple of times. Maybe 1/2 way out maybe a little more? 2014 CB dlx

 

[itstuantran_imp]

Mine is just somewhere before 1/2, not very clear but you will get used to with it soon. (RS2017). For the front suspension, no idea, as though it's both SDBV but the front supension on the RS looks much fatter, and so far i have no issue with its performance.

Tuan

 

[tinboatcapt_imp]

My "New old stock" 2014 standard had a substantial imbalance for the first 1K miles or so. I assumed it was because it had been sitting on the tires for three years and had developed flat spots. Now that I have a little over 1K miles on it the vibration is now largely gone. Yesterday I was caught in a heavy rain. I was not impressed with the wet performance of the Dunlop D205F tires. They will be replaced this winter, regardless of miles.

In time, the suspension may get some attention as well. The bounce and rebound valving on the front could use some work. The spring rates are fine for my 160 pounds.

As to the clutch lever: I have had a number of bikes over the years. Only two have had hydraulic systems. Both of those only begin to engage in the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the lever movement. Put another way, to release the clutch to shift requires only a quick "bump" of the lever.

The older cable actuated clutches had a much greater "throw". I would call it "smoother" because they are easier to slip, but require a greater movement of the lever to release the clutch to shift. Perhaps beginning to grab in the first 1/4 of the lever movement.

jim

 

[SpamJ_imp]

I noticed last night when cleaning the rear wheel that there are 6 stick on wheel weights (3 per side). That might have something to do with my vibration.

 

[2017EX_imp]

Having owned 15 different bikes since 1968, from my experience, the experience of motorcycle friends plus responses here, I am convinced the front end vibration has three possibilities or a combination ( the spoke wheel being out of tru has supposedly been eliminated by the dealer at this point ): The tire is out of round, incorrectly mounted on the rim, or the assembly is out of balance. I can find no other logical explanations for why everything is smooth as glass up to 38-40 mph, where the front end vibration ( up & down ) kicks in. As we all know, this type of vibration does not occur until the wheel is spinning fast enough for it to show up. The clutch from all indications, and feedback, is just the nature of the beast for hydraulic clutches and I will get used to it ( I have only owned one other hydraulic bike to compare to ). The front end vibration is a whole different ball game. While no one would expect a brand new bike to be test ridden at the factory, I would question why the wheels are aparantly not spin balanced prior to mounting on the bike by Honda, which would expose any of the possible vibration causes discussed here. The 6 stick on weights SpamJ described, seem like a lot on his 2017 1100EX. Unknown whether the weights were dealer installed, or factory. I would suspect, knowing Hondas reputation for superb engineering, that it was not factory, as I think that many weights might indicate a problem that needed to be fixed by replacing the tire, truing the rim ( if a spoke wheel ), or the tire to rim mounting. His example, the vibration experience of a few others here, and my situation, is very concerning. With front end vibration at 40 mph bad enough to vibrate my mirrors, something is not right. As I am a stickler for correct new engine break in, I have not taken it past 50 mph to this point, and do not want to until the vibration issue is solved. Now dont get me wrong, I am a huge Honda fan and LOVE the bike, but to me this is a safety, control, and distraction from paying attention to safe operation issue. I certainly do not know everything there is to know about motorcycles, but anyone with a fair amount of time in the saddle, can tell when something is not right. At the very least, I hope my post will alert members to watch out for this possibility, and get their dealer to fix properly if it is noticed. I expect any new machine to have some hiccups that need to be fixed, provided the fix is done the right way. My thanks to all for the input.

 

[Houtman_imp]

I have no weights on my 2017 front wheel but 4 on the rear (left side )
No vibration at all.