Clutch Lever Full Engagement

O

odelegacy_imp

First service completed
Thread starter
I've noticed that my clutch won't fully disengage unless I pull the clutch lever all the way to the handlebar. So, if I'm pulling with two fingers and keeping two on the handlebar, my two fingers on the handlebar don't allow it to be pulled back all the way. This causes the gears to catch at the end of the shift.

I've tried adjusting the pull on the clutch lever, but feel like I'm missing something else to fix this issue.
 
my master on the clutch side actually got water in it and a gritty jelly looking stuff i cleaned it and flushed with dot 4 and it was like new
 
I tried it today. Pulled clutch lever with 2 fingers and it still shifts smoothly, but I didn't care for the lever banging into my other 2 fingers lol. Think I'll keep clutching with all 4 fingers.
 
I think the problem is that the levers are too long. You might need one of the adjustable shorty levers like CRG RC2 (or one of the many inexpensive copies).
CRG's shorty lever is 1-1/2" shorter than standard.

The clutch lever is same as 2004-2007 CBR1000RR and 2014 and later VFR800F, and all VFR1200s. The brake lever is same as 2014 and later VFR800F, and all VFR1200s.

Of course, you could always cut a stock lever down a couple inches.

Good luck getting RLETs to fit though......
 
Thread starter
I took it for a spin and rode with 2 fingers and then all 4. Using all 4 and pulling the lever all the way back makes it shift smoothly and find neutral easily. The last half inch of the pull seems to be where all of the issues lie.

I tried it on settings 1 through 5 with 2 fingers and it didn’t make a noticeable difference. Getting a short lever may be the ticket. Although, the ferret didn’t seem to have issues with 2 finger pull beyond the comfortability.
 
Just measured my clutch handle on setting 5 which is the closest to the handle setting and after the freeplay of 20 mm ( 3/4 inch ) measured at the end of the lever it engages the clutch basket.
The total distance of travel of the handle is 90 mm. at setting 5, so the handle moves the clutch basket for 70 mm. of it's travel, does yours have the same result?
I removed the oil filler cap and i can feel the basket move with my pinky finger, pretty much after the 20 mm. freeplay, the basket started to move as the handle was pulled in further, if your basket is not moving at that amount there could be air trapped in the hydraulic clutch line which compresses but does not transfer the hydraulic pressure to the clutch slave piston until all the air is compressed.
Unlike the brakes the hydraulic lines are higher than the bleed points and air needs to be purged out at a speed higher than the air can rise to the top, i.e. a speed bleeder which injects fluid under pressure or vacuum, several systems could do this job with success.

Just some baseline figures for you to compare, cheers.
 
Max, you're not in the US, so I can understand you might take it for granted. But in the US, you can't assume we would have the common sense to have the engine off when checking the clutch with our pinkie as you did. The spray of hot oil out the filler cap may not be enough warning for us. :huh:

I have seen so many mangled and chewed off dipstick tips, I fear for the survival of our species.
 
You know it had crossed my mind to mention the " engine off " part but somehow i thought it overkill:P

So i purposely left it out of the long explanation that ensued, but it is very refreshing to know that an experienced and appreciated forum member stepped into the breach and completed the set of instructions so precariously left bare by me:rofl: moreover reads the post that others may just skip over, so yet again i appreciate the warm assistance by yours truly.

What a team we all make!

Now let's see if all the help will be of any assistance to our new chap.
 
max_imp said:
You know it had crossed my mind to mention the " engine off " part but somehow i thought it overkill:P

So i purposely left it out of the long explanation that ensued, but it is very refreshing to know that an experienced and appreciated forum member stepped into the breach and completed the set of instructions so precariously left bare by me:rofl: moreover reads the post that others may just skip over, so yet again i appreciate the warm assistance by yours truly.

What a team we all make!

Now let's see if all the help will be of any assistance to our new chap.
Click to expand...
Not overkill (am I allowed to say overkill?). We need all the help we can get. Much can be explained if you just Google "Florida Man".
 
Thread starter
Hey Max, I’ll measure that up tomorrow. Thanks for checking that out for me.

Jtopiso- yeah, I definitely think I need to tweak something. I shouldn’t have any issues using the clutch with two fingers.
 
I've been tryin to get MY clutch to work better. The shifts are a little rough only sometimes but I know it isn't right. I've bled and bled to no avail. The lever feels ok when stationary and not much different when moving. If I pull the lever slowly it's better, more quickly it's not so good. That tells me there might be air trapped somewhere but there is only so many places it can hide. It has been somewhat like this since I purchased in 2017 but ridable. Are the any recalls on this or known fixes (alteration/mods) that work.
Any help is appreciated. TM
 
I have done that and will check back later, no time this morning to look. Another 'trick" I learned from a Honda mechanic and shop owner is to wiggle the lever, reservoir open, and watch the bubbles come up from the piston. Don't pull it all the way in, just wiggle. That has worked many many times but this one is stubborn. On the center stand the clutch is clearly dragging. Yes, I changes the oil too. I have never had one give me so much trouble before. Must be hidden traps in the there or my luck has run out. LOL.
Thanks for the reply. TM
 
STLTHMSTA_imp said:
I have done that and will check back later, no time this morning to look. Another 'trick" I learned from a Honda mechanic and shop owner is to wiggle the lever, reservoir open, and watch the bubbles come up from the piston. Don't pull it all the way in, just wiggle. That has worked many many times but this one is stubborn. On the center stand the clutch is clearly dragging. Yes, I changes the oil too. I have never had one give me so much trouble before. Must be hidden traps in the there or my luck has run out. LOL.
Thanks for the reply. TM
Click to expand...
That method works fine with a system like the front brake where the air can rise to the top of the system and escape.

The clutch fluid line on our bikes however has a high point under the fuel tank in which the air can rise and is then trapped in that spot.

By changing the fluid in the normal way the air follows the fluid towards the slave cylinder but can keep rising between strokes and collect in the same area.

To clear the air out you will have to move the fluid faster than the air can rise to the top of the system, by either using a vacuum bleeder or a syringe with enough capacity to collect all the fluid from the reservoir and motivate the air out of the system.

Once the air is removed you can do a regular slow change with the lever only, hope this helps.
 
Thanks for that bit of info. I was suspicious of such a thing but didn't think the line was bend in such a way. The tie wrap method didn't work. I have been using a vacuum bleeder as I have on all my bikes and cars.
This one really takes the cake. I even took the slave cylinder off and turned the bleed valve to 12 o'clock thinking the slight tilt might be doing it. Nope. I will pull the tank tomorrow and get to searching. I may even look to find a fluid PUMP that'll push from the bleed valve up but will have to watch the master cylinder to keep the mess to a minimum. I'll report back, thanks. If this works I may fall in love with this bike again. TM
 
Bleeding the clutch is not exactly like bleeding brakes. When you pull the clutch lever in, it goes to the bar, so a much larger amount of fluid is pushed to expand the slave cylinder, and stubborn air bubbles can be trapped inside the expanded slave cylinder.

I have bled clutch systems by taking the slave cylinder off, but still connected, as you did, and using a small portable drill press vise, prevented the piston from expanding outward, and bleeding it with the same resistance you would feel in the brakes.

If you don't have a small vise, a heavy C-clamp should also work. With the clutch cylinder restrained, you should also bleed both upper and lower banjo bolts, as air gets trapped there also.

Max is correct in saying there are high points under the tank, but the line is one piece from the master to the slave cylinder. You can move a large amount of fluid by back-bleeding the system. With the clutch cylinder off and the piston all the way in, pull the clutch lever in once only, then manually push the piston back in. That should be enough to push most of the fluid in the line u back into the reservoir.

Make sure you have the master cylinder covered, and the level is low fluid before back-bleeding. Also a good idea to cover the gas tank whenever the brake or clutch master cylinders are accessed. If you get brake fluid on any painted surface, seal up master cylinder and flush the area with water to dilute it.
 
Some very good advice there PD, since the old fluid is usually darker in the clutch system i also tend to expel the old stuff by c clamping and compressing the slave piston ( which has a spring ( 11 ) behind it to take up any slack ) all the way in and replace the fluid in the line first before releasing the piston slowly thereby filling the slave cylinder with fresh fluid.
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/a/hon/511a8dddf870022e4ccd3277/left-rear-cover
Also provides for a chance to check for any fluid leaks and corrosion development.

Also found that removing the bleednipples and applying some BLUE ( NOT red ) loctite on the threads prevents air and fluid escaping when the nipple is opened ( only a quarter of a turn ) to pass fluid, speedbleeders are doing the same, the loctite makes for a good seal during this job and still allows for movement, afterwards i also put a brake cleaner straw into the nipple, put a rag around it and clear all brake fluid out to prevent corrosion in that area before replacing the rubber cap on the nipple..

Other things to consider are to protect the cavity of the slave cylinder with a suitable grease like silicon paste against fluid which can creep past the seal and collect inside that cavity, same with the area under the rubber boot where the pushrod is behind the master cylinder.
Both areas can get messy if left unchecked but silicon grease can help protect the mostly aluminum surfaces and steel circlip over time.

Partsfish can be very helpful in finding out what the parts look like inside before working on them;
https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/l/hon/511a8ddbf870022e4ccd326c/2013-cb1100a-ac-parts
 
Good advice Max!

You brought up a good point about sealing the bleed nipples. A vacuum power bleeder used on the bleed nipples will often pull air past the threads, and it looks like it will never bleed cleanly. I have used Teflon plumbing sealant tape on the bleed nipple threads so that no air sneaks through at the threads.
 
Update: I tried all suggestions (though I'm really not new at this). i didn't really see any high spots in the line when I took the tank off as suggested here. So I took the slave cylinder off and hung it from the line down to the flood. I pushed the piston in with a c-clamp. Tapped gently up and down the line to jar any bubbles up to the master. No luck, so I'm convinced that there is no air bubs left in the system. Looking in the fill hole it sure does look like the pressure plate isn't moving a lot but could be enough. I tried the foil in the bushing trick but no help. BTW, those little devils are $11+ each.
Next move might be to pop the clutch cover off to have a look. If someone has something else I'm all ears (and yes). Thanks, TM
 
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