Charcoal canister removal

[Siggy Javotnik_imp]

My bike has developed a familiar minor surge/hunting at low throttle openings. I say 'familiar' because I've experienced it on bikes with emissions canisters -- shortly before the canister "falls off." I've generally left the tank vent tube to atmosphere and used a vacuum cap for the line from the throttle bodies. QUESTION: has anyone here removed the canister from a CB1100? Where is the thing? Honda did a good job making it inconspicuous! (I searched the forum and the web before posting -- I apologize if there's a thread on this already, I just couldn't find it!).

 

[Randy B]

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way advocating to modification or removal of any emission control device.

 

[flynrider]

Siggy, that roughness at low throttle settings is probably not related to the cannister. Quite a few folks on the forum have noticed it, including myself. Mine has done it since new. I suspect it's a lean condition, most likely related to emission control. On my bike it's roughest about 1800-2K rpm then disappears above that.

 

[dave]

Siggy, that roughness at low throttle settings is probably not related to the cannister. Quite a few folks on the forum have noticed it, including myself. Mine has done it since new. I suspect it's a lean condition, most likely related to emission control. On my bike it's roughest about 1800-2K rpm then disappears above that.

I created a post about the fuel injection problems I am experiencing with my 2014 CB1100 here a few months back. I have not kept it up-to-date, but in summary:
1. The throttle bodies on my bike are not synchronized - I posted a picture of the electronic vacuum gauge reading on this forum.
2. My bike has been returned to the dealer four times - the Honda mechanics claim it runs "fine" - it does not.
3. An electronic diagnostics test has been performed by Honda twice - both times the results were satisfactory.
4. Below 3,000 RPM and at very light loads my bike runs poorly - you can hear it mis-firing.
5. From stoplight to stoplight (one block apart) my bike is annoying to ride. My bike has somehow, mysteriously been running better as the miles have increased (3,000 miles now) - but it still does not run acceptably.
6.On the back roads, in corners, where you let the RPM drop below 3,000 is where it is most noticeable - and annoying. The engine stumbles (slightly) as the throttle is applied below 3,000 RPM, then suddenly comes to life above 3,000 RPM (actually closer to 3,200 RPM).
7. After four visits to the dealer, multiple phone calls to the factory and a threat to invoke the California Lemmon Law, Honda is arranging to have a "factory representative" present when Honda can perform their own vacuum test.
8. I love my bike, and if Honda cannot / does not repair it to my satisfaction then I will repair it myself - contrary to common belief the throttle bodies can be adjusted. I am convinced that synchronizing the throttle bodies on my bike will improve its performance (I have years of experience synchronizing carburetors on 4-cylinder bikes).

 

[Lord Popgun]

Dave,

I believe you meant to say CANNOT be adjusted. I don't know, and think someone like you may be able to do it. It is just that the service manual says not to adjust the screws or it can't be put back. I would imagine that is more for people like me, with no experience syncing carbs or throttle bodies.

I figured they are set at the factory on some kind of flow bench, but I don't know.

 

[ClassicVW_imp]

Having owned approx 10 BMW motorcycles, I am very familiar with the Booster Plug product. I installed one on a couple of bikes and it works. I believe they are only made for BMW, Triumph, Husqvarna and maybe Ducati. But this seems to be what would solve the problem you are describing, if it's ever available for Hondas.

For those that aren't familiar with it, It's a simple plug and play module that eliminates surging and hunting due to lean factory settings. It does this in a very simple way. It tricks the engine management into thinking the outside temperature is 20 deg. F lower than it actually is. The fuel management then automatically compensates for this by making the fuel setting six percent richer. That's it.

 

[dave]

Dave,

I believe you meant to say CANNOT be adjusted. I don't know, and think someone like you may be able to do it. It is just that the service manual says not to adjust the screws or it can't be put back. I would imagine that is more for people like me, with no experience syncing carbs or throttle bodies.

I figured they are set at the factory on some kind of flow bench, but I don't know.

popgun,

Some people believe that they CANNOT be adjusted (I received such a response in my previous post, a few months back, with a reference to the service manual). I stated that CONTRARY to popular believe they CAN be adjusted. I own and read through the official Honda service manual, where they warn you NOT to adjust the throttle body synchronization (it's kinda like those little tags that they sew on your pillow that tell you not to remove under penalty of law). Honda also informed me that they CANNOT be adjusted, and this is when I informed them that if they CANNOT be adjusted then I would like mine replaced (they did not have a response to this statement). Honda had been refusing to even check the synchronization on my bike (they said they didn't know how to do it), but at lease now they have agreed to do so. I am not 100% sure that they can be adjusted, but the service manual shows screws that they warn you not to mess with because to do so will affect the synchronization. I just figured that if I messed with these screws (with the help of a vacuum gauge) that I could just possibly make an improvement. If it was this simple I would have done this by now, and this is why I have been keeping the pressure on Honda to do something for me. Other bikes (my 1998 Honda VFR800) allow you to synchronize the throttle bodies; why would the CB1100 be different? You are probably right, concerning the throttle bodies being adjusted on a flow bench at the factory, but however they are adjusted, mine are not adjusted properly. I have a really, really good feeling that if the throttle bodies on my bike are properly synchronized then the stumbling and mis-firing below 3,000 RPM will be eliminated, or at least reduced to a more acceptable level. I'm not the only one on this forum who has made comments about their bike performing poorly at low RPM, but I believe that I am the only member on this forum who has actually hooked a vacuum gauge up to their bike and made an accurate measurement. If it wasn't for the vacuum test that I had performed by an independent mechanic, then I would most-likely believe that my bike ran the way it did because of leanness due to the emissions standards.

 

[dave]

Dave,

I believe you meant to say CANNOT be adjusted. I don't know, and think someone like you may be able to do it. It is just that the service manual says not to adjust the screws or it can't be put back. I would imagine that is more for people like me, with no experience syncing carbs or throttle bodies.

I figured they are set at the factory on some kind of flow bench, but I don't know.

popgun,

Some people believe that they CANNOT be adjusted (I received such a response in my previous post, a few months back, with a reference to the service manual). I stated that CONTRARY to popular believe they CAN be adjusted. I own and read through the official Honda service manual, where they warn you NOT to adjust the throttle body synchronization (it's kinda like those little tags that they sew on your pillow that tell you not to remove under penalty of law). Honda also informed me that they CANNOT be adjusted, and this is when I informed them that if they CANNOT be adjusted then I would like mine replaced (they did not have a response to this statement). Honda had been refusing to even check the synchronization on my bike (they said they didn't know how to do it), but at lease now they have agreed to do so. I am not 100% sure that they can be adjusted, but the service manual shows screws that they warn you not to mess with because to do so will affect the synchronization. I just figured that if I messed with these screws (with the help of a vacuum gauge) that I could just possibly make an improvement. If it was this simple I would have done this by now, and this is why I have been keeping the pressure on Honda to do something for me. Other bikes (my 1998 Honda VFR800) allow you to synchronize the throttle bodies; why would the CB1100 be different? You are probably right, concerning the throttle bodies being adjusted on a flow bench at the factory, but however they are adjusted, mine are not adjusted properly. I have a really, really good feeling that if the throttle bodies on my bike are properly synchronized then the stumbling and mis-firing below 3,000 RPM will be eliminated, or at least reduced to a more acceptable level. I'm not the only one on this forum who has made comments about their bike performing poorly at low RPM, but I believe that I am the only member on this forum who has actually hooked a vacuum gauge up to their bike and made an accurate measurement. If it wasn't for the vacuum test that I had performed by an independent mechanic, then I would most-likely believe that my bike ran the way it did because of leanness due to the emissions standards.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Dave,

How does the TPS play with throttle body sync? The book says not to mess with that either, and it isn't even avail. as a separate item. I do know that a couple members have adjusted theirs. though.

Also, you said it is misfiring. Wouldn't that indicate that maybe something is wrong in the ingnition or maybe the ECU? I'm not a motorcycle mechanic, just trying to learn

 

[HikerToo_imp]

Now that you guys have described this, I believe my 13 CB does it also.
I think adding the PCV helped by richening the fuel level.
Maybe when Guhl Motors gets my bike on the Dyno later this week he'll notice something that can be tweaked in the ECU or who knows if he even tweaks or measures EFI as mentioned.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Hiker,

I think a lot of us are interested in what Don finds out with your stock bike, and with your Staintune. I know I'm interested in the stock findings.

Ridem says the map that Don does now was an improvement, but I think he mostly had the rev/speed restriction removed and some minor fueling tweeks.

The way I ride (old guy mode) I don't seem to have any problems.

 

[HondaJon_imp]

DAVE,

Sounds like you have a two pronged issue.

Have a competent Honda mechanic check the throttle bodies
Then install a PC V.

The CB is way too lean from the factory. The power commander will correct the lean condition and eliminate the stumble.

 

[The Spaceman_imp]

DAVE,

Sounds like you have a two pronged issue.

Have a competent Honda mechanic check the throttle bodies
Then install a PC V.

The CB is way too lean from the factory. The power commander will correct the lean condition and eliminate the stumble.

Mine is just fine from the factory. There's no stumble or any other indication of lean fueling.

 

[Firstfour_imp]

DAVE,

Sounds like you have a two pronged issue.

Have a competent Honda mechanic check the throttle bodies
Then install a PC V.

The CB is way too lean from the factory. The power commander will correct the lean condition and eliminate the stumble.

Mine is just fine from the factory. There's no stumble or any other indication of lean fueling.

Mine is just fine from the factory. There's no stumble or any other indication of lean fueling.
Same here. Runs great.

 

[HikerToo_imp]

You know...we may have identified the CB's first "bug", some have it, some don't.
But it's quite obvious on mine....feels like it's slightly running out of gas at times, just briefly, usually at certain RPM until you give it more gas......
I'm thinking if others have what I am describing they would notice it too...at least I'm assuming others would notice it, seems apparent to me.

 

[grover_imp]

I also experience a small amount of what feels like fueling weirdness if I try to maintain a particular engine speed in low gear. I can hold the throttle in a fixed position and feel the bike surge a bit as though I'm cranking the throttle open and closed by a cm.

It's only really noticeable when trying to maintain near parking lot speeds in low gear and is easily avoidable by giving it a little more gas. I'm not sure if it's due to lean factory tuning or something else but it's definitely there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AzBob_imp]

DAVE,

Sounds like you have a two pronged issue.

Have a competent Honda mechanic check the throttle bodies
Then install a PC V.

The CB is way too lean from the factory. The power commander will correct the lean condition and eliminate the stumble.

Mine is just fine from the factory. There's no stumble or any other indication of lean fueling.

Mine is just fine from the factory. There's no stumble or any other indication of lean fueling.
Same here. Runs great.

Mine is just fine from the factory. There's no stumble or any other indication of lean fueling.
Same here. Runs great.
Ditto. I had another thread similar to this one in mind a couple of weeks ago when I was riding home from work and decided to test out the low-speed fueling. On my bike, it's absolutely perfect. Smooth as glass from idle to redline. Horsing around in the 2-5k RPM range yielded no stumbles, hesitation, or other weirdness.

So, what this means is, it CAN run correctly. Something is not working right if you're having problems.

 

[pechorin75_imp]

I've never experienced anything like this w/ my bike (2,000 miles, elevation around 300 msl FWIW). Sounds more like a bug than a feature...

 

[Deanohh_imp]

The slow speed stumble is frustrating because it seems to be a characteristic of many of the stock CBs. I used a pcv for performance and it tuned away the hesitation as a bonus.

Regarding tb sync,.....may be tricky because the middle two have different valve timing from the outside two cylinders.

 

[twiin640_imp]

I have to say that the smoothness of this bike is one of the main items that sold me on it. I stopped by a local dealership just to look at one because it was sitting out front and I had seen them in magazines and such. The dealer allowed me to test ride the only 2013 demo they had on the lot.

I couldn't believe how smooth the engine was and how easy it was to ride. Long story short, I rode it home that night lol. I haven't noticed the low rpm stumbles or other items mentioned.

Now let me also throw out that I rode air cooled Buell V twin sportbikes for a number of years and the bike I had when I bought the CB was a Suzuki M109R cruiser with a V twin. Except for only a couple exceptions all my bikes have been v twins. Some others will probably agree that v twins inherently vibrate more than other bikes. I think that I'm so used to the V twins that if my CB had a vibration of some type problem I'd probably not notice it right away.

I'm not suggesting that there isn't some type of quirk going on with your CB because I think maybe there is. I believe that everyone who has had their bike a little while knows when their bike is "off". I'm hoping you find the problem and can get it resolved.