Character
- Thread starter Cormanus
- Start date
the Ferret
Road warrior
LOL well some designs even though being utilized today, are 40-50 years old (Ducs, Harleys and Guzzis haven't changed much).. and I haven't owned any bikes in the last 25 years that many would consider having character since most everything has been Japanese. Some would say my 2003 Bonnie but honestly that was a very good motorcycle and had very few traits that I would consider giving it character, so other than old stuff and stuff others have that I know I have nothing for comparison.
What do you think gives a bike character Capo? You ride a lot of the bikes that many people would probably describe as having such. Is it a physical feature? rarity? country of origin? Is just being non-Japanese enough to say a bike has character?
What do you think gives a bike character Capo? You ride a lot of the bikes that many people would probably describe as having such. Is it a physical feature? rarity? country of origin? Is just being non-Japanese enough to say a bike has character?
Good question the CB is to new and modern to have character. Imo. But my last bike certainly did. A Armstrong mt500 named lance (Armstrong). With full military history. It was used by the paras 2/3. Sas. Raf. In various conflicts. Ridden though desserts dropped from aircrafts etc. He only started when he wanted to. He would stop when he wanted to,(breakdown) I'd had enough He was a pig. But He had bags and bags of character and history. He now lives in Scotland and I do really miss him,)-:
the Ferret
Road warrior
Good night the CB has to be a revelation after the Armstrong 500 ( Rotax/HD kickstart single right?).
I don't think you can firmly define the word as it applies to motorbikes. But you know it when you feel it. My sense is that it implies something that feels other than studied, focus grouped or created in a lab, with certain 'flaws' or characteristics versus the perfect, that make it interesting. And lust worthy. Out right performance, reliability or spec sheet factoids don't fully matter....I never much cared what Sophia Loren's blood pressure or 40 yard dash times were.The ferret_imp said:
Japanese bikes, fairly or not, are blanketed with the 'no character' description, due to the very thing that makes them so good...their engineering, smoothness, and build quality, at the expense of being anodyne. Thank you, Mr. Deming.
And yes, marketing plays a part. I still haven't been in a Honda dealership that seems to give a rat's butt about making the potential owner feel like something special is about to happen, or that their bikes have won TT's, GP's, MX championships, or are of a magnificent lineage. It's hard to feel all character-y when they have to move a lawn mower and generator out of the way to get to the 3 year old CB1100 stuffed away in the back of the showroom.
Just my opinion, and whatever makes your own blood rise.
the Ferret
Road warrior
All very valid points Capo. Thanks.
sabashahid_imp
First service completed
Thats a good videoPowerDubs_imp said:I've owned cars with character. I've owned bikes with character.
To me- it is usually a combination of a good sound and a little spunk in throttle response.
Give me a throaty intake noise, a little voice on the back end and a little hit of accel if I give it the beans.
Example- here is my Vw R32 from a decade ago- sit and listen to the entire video and tell me it didn't have character. Trust me it is worth the time to anybody who claims to like motorized videos.
Please forgive me that I filmed it with a 2004 cell phone zip tied to my rear windshield wiper.
And if that isn't enough-
Yea I know it isn't a bike, but I've never filmed a bike.
My '83 IT250 and my '89 FZR600 both had character- neither were stock.
Well- nothing I've ever owned stays stock..
the Ferret
Road warrior
Had to laugh since we were just talking about this. Today the mail lady brought me a new Cycle World. Back cover of the magazine, full page adCapo_imp said:
Moto Guzzi V7 III
1967-2017: 50 Years Of A Legend
*** Picture of bike ***
Since 1967, every V7 has rolled out of the same factory in Madello Del Lario. Always designed with a unique blend of style and technology, the V7 has continually evolved, engulfing the hearts of generation after generation.
Authentic character and timeless Italian design embody pure Moto Guzzi spirit. No shortcuts, no compromises.
Hey, a 50 year design and the character comes in it from the factory. The ad says so, it's right there in black and white lol
Wisedrum
Road warrior
One has to ride an old Guzzi V7 and a new one in comparison.
Only then you will know, how much character has stayed the test
of time. I asume the character has flatened out up to certain degree.
Or in other words has been modernized in a way that the adjustment had
to be made.
In Germany they testrode the CB750 together with our CB to find out, what has remained of the original idea of that characterful, groundbraking bike. I feel or see character in both ones.
The main idea stays the same but the 1100 is ritarded in its engine and exhaust
noise or sound,.as you see it. In other aspects it shows a well produced
development in power,.brakes , suspension and frame to name a few. I appreciate this good step into a right direction and like the kind of 'new' character, the 1100 offers, although never having ridden a CB 750, which I surely would also like.
Probably the same goes for both V7 Guzzis, no matter what an ad tells you.
Wisedrum
Only then you will know, how much character has stayed the test
of time. I asume the character has flatened out up to certain degree.
Or in other words has been modernized in a way that the adjustment had
to be made.
In Germany they testrode the CB750 together with our CB to find out, what has remained of the original idea of that characterful, groundbraking bike. I feel or see character in both ones.
The main idea stays the same but the 1100 is ritarded in its engine and exhaust
noise or sound,.as you see it. In other aspects it shows a well produced
development in power,.brakes , suspension and frame to name a few. I appreciate this good step into a right direction and like the kind of 'new' character, the 1100 offers, although never having ridden a CB 750, which I surely would also like.
Probably the same goes for both V7 Guzzis, no matter what an ad tells you.
Wisedrum
rboe
Road warrior
Regarding the V7. The old original V7 was a big block motor. The current V7 is a small block motor. Two very different beasts.
ohiorider_imp
Been there
Thanks for that, Rboe! Guzzi keeps trying to pass off the new V7 as the descendent of the original. It isn't. As you said, the new V7 (and V9) are descendants of the small block Guzzi engine. Nothing wrong with that, aside from the fact that the bikes aren't related to the big block engines. However, they're all built in the same factory located in Mandello del Lario, Italy. I've ridden my 'big block' 1200 Sport for nearly 64000 miles since 2010, and she's a truly nice big block Guzzi. And even with stock exhaust, this bike sounds like a big block Chevy. Not all that loud .... just a nice sound and vibes. This bike has 'character,' in my opinion.Rboe_imp said:
Having said that ..... so does my new-to-me CB1100!
Bob
the Ferret
Road warrior
what is the difference between big block and small block from a practical perspective?
DaSwami_imp
Been there
The words "big" and "small"....The ferret_imp said:
As of very recently I drive a silver Honda Ridgeline. Before, for 15 years, it was a silver Acura MDX, and ride a black CB1100. Very characterless machines, according to many. Maybe I'm a bland, characterless type of individual...
But (in my best Jules Winnfield voice) that's not the truth. The truth is that together with what I do to them to make them mine, I am the character those machines have. And blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
IMNSHO, Retsel's got it...
But (in my best Jules Winnfield voice) that's not the truth. The truth is that together with what I do to them to make them mine, I am the character those machines have. And blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
IMNSHO, Retsel's got it...
Retsel_imp said:
rboe
Road warrior
DaSwami probably nailed it. I've only owned big block motors. But I "think" the small blocks rev higher. I've only ridden a couple and they were 750's and acted like "small" motors.The ferret_imp said:
There is a Guzzi crowd out there that loves the small block (I'm not a member). I suspect small blocks are also in smaller frames, in general smaller bikes than the big blocks and that fact alone will cloud your judgement a bit.
Maybe if you thought of them as small V4 Chevy engines vs V8 big block motors; even if historically the horse power numbers are similar they will have a different feel to them.
There a lot of great comments in this thread about whether a bike/brand has character or not. I guess I prefer personality rather than character although they are sometimes interchangeable. I think only the owner should decide whether their bike has certain personality traits that are desirable or not. My two hondas have distinct personality traits and also some common ones two.
common: reliable and steady under all sorts of challenges on the road.
distinct: the ST exhibits a bit more of a beastly personality like a grizzly whereas the CB is more like mountain lion (more quick and agile but some punch as well).
People who make generalized comments that all Honda motorcycles have no character or personality are simply wrong.
It's all in the eyes of the owner, after all.
common: reliable and steady under all sorts of challenges on the road.
distinct: the ST exhibits a bit more of a beastly personality like a grizzly whereas the CB is more like mountain lion (more quick and agile but some punch as well).
People who make generalized comments that all Honda motorcycles have no character or personality are simply wrong.
It's all in the eyes of the owner, after all.
pekingduck
Road warrior
I like to think of character as just "endearing qualities". Our CB1100s have plenty of them, from the way the key slides in smoothly and clicks and the dials do their opening dance, and on and on.
I liked the big Guzzis. I have had several Guzzis from 2001 - 2007, and they were fast and surprisingly powerful.
Here are a couple differences between big block and small block Guzzis. Big blocks go back to the late '60s and originated as a workhorse touring machine. Later big blocks evolved into more sporting machines but still having lots of torque. But they were always heavy and the weight was up relatively high. They worked best at higher speeds, longer distances, long sweepers rather than tight turns.
The small blocks started in the late '70s as 350s and 500s for the commuter market. They were a good 150 pounds lighter (sub 400 pounds) and a lot smaller. Their head and piston design limited performance (heron head design). I had a 500 and it was slower than a Honda CB350. The new models are loosely based on these, although head configuration has been updated to acceptable modern performance. I rode a 2012 V7 Sport, and it was very light but cramped, and a Honda CBR500R twin would eat one up. For smaller riders, it would be fine, but my 6'2" 250# body just crushes it.
I liked the big Guzzis. I have had several Guzzis from 2001 - 2007, and they were fast and surprisingly powerful.
Here are a couple differences between big block and small block Guzzis. Big blocks go back to the late '60s and originated as a workhorse touring machine. Later big blocks evolved into more sporting machines but still having lots of torque. But they were always heavy and the weight was up relatively high. They worked best at higher speeds, longer distances, long sweepers rather than tight turns.
The small blocks started in the late '70s as 350s and 500s for the commuter market. They were a good 150 pounds lighter (sub 400 pounds) and a lot smaller. Their head and piston design limited performance (heron head design). I had a 500 and it was slower than a Honda CB350. The new models are loosely based on these, although head configuration has been updated to acceptable modern performance. I rode a 2012 V7 Sport, and it was very light but cramped, and a Honda CBR500R twin would eat one up. For smaller riders, it would be fine, but my 6'2" 250# body just crushes it.
