CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[max]

Ferret, have you tried the same thing with the bike on the center stand?

Could be the clutch is engaging at or before the point where the switch changes contacts and becomes hard to spot when in gear and moving or pulling away.

Think Doc means when the lcbs joins inversely against the iclsdg causing the sttlm to slide over the rdl track :dodgy: :huh:?

max

 

[Cormanus]

Ferret, have you tried the same thing with the bike on the center stand?

Could be the clutch is engaging at or before the point where the switch changes contacts and becomes hard to spot when in gear and moving or pulling away.

Think Doc means when the lcbs joins inversely against the iclsdg causing the sttlm to slide over the rdl track :dodgy: :huh:?

max

That's certainly what I thought he meant. :huh:

 

[the Ferret]

Max no, I may do that sometime although that would make it hard to tell when you are at the friction zone of the clutch engagement I would think. I only try these things because others bring them up and I want to see what they are talking about.

Just for the record I am not having any issues with my bike, at 37,000 miles + it still idles and runs perfectly.

 

[Nemo_imp]

Well... I'm gonna blame this thread for my '14 standard getting infected with the high idle issue. Mine started after a refuel so I'm hoping for change after burning this tank. If not, could someone give me an executive summary of the 79 ages of this thread?

 

[the Ferret]

Sure... It's not looking good for Nemo

 

[pdedse]

Well... I'm gonna blame this thread for my '14 standard getting infected with the high idle issue. Mine started after a refuel so I'm hoping for change after burning this tank. If not, could someone give me an executive summary of the 79 ages of this thread?

Nemo, sorry to hear this as one who suffered through this for 6 months and then traded in my '14 standard as a result. I find it interesting that it started right after a refuel, as mine did too. Had never happened before--I filled tank before heading home after an hour ride, and upon starting it up, idle shot up to 1500 and stayed there. Over the next few months, high idle, low idle, back an forth, eventually, low idle was more common.

I posted this before as a "summary" of the spreadsheet where owners describe the problem and "fixes":

What members have done:
1. throttle assembly replacement, under warranty (more than $3,000 if not under warranty). Problem solved.
2. One IACV replacement worked (under warranty, would have been $1,300), one didn't--I think this one was performed by the member
3. WOT riding...worked for some, didn't for others, temporarily "worked" for others
4. battery replacement seeme to "fix" for one member; others have disconnected battery, recharging, problem returned.
5. TPS reset; worked for some, not for others.
6. Wire at TPS connector was crimped? "Fixed" and problem went away (I'm not sure of the details).
7. EOT replaced, didn't work for a couple
8. EOT unplugged, problem goes away, but then comes back.
9. sea foam added, fuel injector cleaners; some say this cured issue, for other no
10. ECU reset; worked? for others didn't
11. TPS disconnect, clean
12. some just live with it?


SportsterDoc has a summary of "to do" list back on post #651

Good luck with it.

 

[max]

Hi Nemo and thanks pdedse for the list, actually 2 iacv replacements have been succesful, johnf replaced by dealer and magnus done by himself came right after some time after replacing iacv, both are still fine to date.
Dave is in the process of replacing his iacv and would be the third one if succesful, as you may know the iacv is not expensive, just a lot of work to get to.

What may help you in the mean time is using the "engine off" switch on the right handlebar when it has high idle, it resets the iacv position among other things.

It would be interesting to know for us if the high idle is present all the time or starts some time after the engine is warmed up, so starts at 1500, settles at 1050 and then gets " stuck "at 1500 again after some time?

 

[pdedse]

Hi Nemo and thanks pdedse for the list, actually 2 iacv replacements have been succesful, johnf replaced by dealer and magnus done by himself came right after some time after replacing iacv, both are still fine to date.
Dave is in the process of replacing his iacv and would be the third one if succesful, as you may know the iacv is not expensive, just a lot of work to get to.

What may help you in the mean time is using the "engine off" switch on the right handlebar when it has high idle, it resets the iacv position among other things.

It would be interesting to know for us if the high idle is present all the time or starts some time after the engine is warmed up, so starts at 1500, settles at 1050 and then gets " stuck "at 1500 again after some time?

Once the high idle issue appeared, the bike would high idle cold then drop to 1050 when fully warm...normal like (on mine it looked to be right at 1000). Then after a few more miles, it would high idle at 1500 and sometimes spike to 1700. The high idle would continue until shutdown.

The low idle issue (drop to 500, then slow rise to 750-ish) would only happen after bike had been ridden 30+ minutes, often not till it had been ridden a full hour.

Upon any start-up with engine cold the idle would return to normal pattern: high idle at 1500 then down to 1050, after which it was only a matter of time before one or the other would return. After cleaning the TPS, both issues went away for 7-8 rides lasting from 30 minutes to 1.5 hours with two exceptions when idle dipped to 900 momentarily.

I traded it in at this point.

 

[Nemo_imp]

I didn’t ride today (monsoon going across Florida all day) but just started it and, cold, it went straight to 1300-1400, not quite 1500. Tomorrow it’s gonna get an I-95 injector cleaning. Will report back.
Thank you pdedse for the summary.

 

[the Ferret]

Nemo, cold it should go to 13-1400. That would be normal cold idle speed. Did you let it run until warm at which point it's supposed to drop to 1050?

 

[Nemo_imp]

Nemo, cold it should go to 13-1400. That would be normal cold idle speed. Did you let it run until warm at which point it's supposed to drop to 1050?

Please hold
As per The Ferret, it started at 1.3-1.4 and when it warmed up went down to 1.0-1.1. Victory? We shall see...

 

[the Ferret]

Good deal. Fingers crossed buddy.

 

[Cormanus]

It's a lemon, Nemo! Trade it on a 2017.

 

[Nemo_imp]

AAR

Yesterday I rode to work outta town, to Palatka. About 65 miles each way. Left the house in the morning and when I hit a little bit of stop-n-go traffic the bike idle went up to the 1500 line. When FL-17 opened up so did the throttle and, to clean up the fuel system, I hit the rev limiter twice. When I got to the office the idle was back to normal.

Left the office, refueled with 87 octane (previous tank had been 93) and went back home via I-95. The interstate is STRESSFUL; too many people driving too fast and distracted. Anyway, again it was purty aggressive riding, speed-wise. Got home in one piece and the bike was still idling at around 1K, like a sleeping baby.

All's good. Hopefully will stay that way.

 

[Razor]

Glad to know it’s running back to normal.

On side note; most of the parts/components seem to be emissions related. Autos have an EPA prescribed warranty that dealers need to adhere too. I read some place that motorcycles have a similar warranty - only not as long. Last I remember it was 5yrs/30,000 miles.

Needs more research, but could be a way to get the repairs done at little or no cost.... maybe?

Anyone have experience or have dealt with this?

 

[SportsterDoc]

Well... I'm gonna blame this thread for my '14 standard getting infected with the high idle issue. Mine started after a refuel so I'm hoping for change after burning this tank. If not, could someone give me an executive summary of the 79 ages of this thread?

Nemo, sorry to hear this as one who suffered through this for 6 months and then traded in my '14 standard as a result. I find it interesting that it started right after a refuel, as mine did too. Had never happened before--I filled tank before heading home after an hour ride, and upon starting it up, idle shot up to 1500 and stayed there. Over the next few months, high idle, low idle, back an forth, eventually, low idle was more common.

I posted this before as a "summary" of the spreadsheet where owners describe the problem and "fixes":

What members have done:
1. throttle assembly replacement, under warranty (more than $3,000 if not under warranty). Problem solved.
2. One IACV replacement worked (under warranty, would have been $1,300), one didn't--I think this one was performed by the member
3. WOT riding...worked for some, didn't for others, temporarily "worked" for others
4. battery replacement seeme to "fix" for one member; others have disconnected battery, recharging, problem returned.
5. TPS reset; worked for some, not for others.
6. Wire at TPS connector was crimped? "Fixed" and problem went away (I'm not sure of the details).
7. EOT replaced, didn't work for a couple
8. EOT unplugged, problem goes away, but then comes back.
9. sea foam added, fuel injector cleaners; some say this cured issue, for other no
10. ECU reset; worked? for others didn't
11. TPS disconnect, clean
12. some just live with it?


SportsterDoc has a summary of "to do" list back on post #651

Good luck with it.

Thanks for re-posting a concise summary.
My summary of checks, to date was post 775
[url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=8120&page=78]http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread....20&page=78

It seems that:
a. The 1140 motor does not seem to like octane other than 87
b. The 1140 motor likes to go some distances, once it is started

Sorry for the delay in responding, but I've been off the grid for a few days.

 

[Houtman_imp]

My 3 CB 1100 have never run on anything else than 93 at over 20.000 miles combined no problems ! (so far ! )
Will keep them on 93 top tier gas .

 

[Wisedrum]

The same high and low idleing of my 2013 CB has been cured 'til now with a new software from Honda available in Germany. Too bad, that Honda doesn't offer it in the USA.

After all my previous failing attempts, similar to those been discribed here earlier, this seems to be the only solvation for this CB disease. At least for my CB. I wish you all luck.

Wisedrum

 

[SportsterDoc]

My 3 CB 1100 have never run on anything else than 93 at over 20.000 miles combined no problems ! (so far ! )
Will keep them on 93 top tier gas .

I do hope that you never have any problems, but would encourage you to switch to top tier 87 octane.

Although one study suggested 3-4% improvement in acceleration and 6 - 8 degrees exhaust temperature reduction with higher octane, that study generically referred to European, American and Asian motors, without specifying if a knock sensor allowed timing to advance to take advantage of a longer burn time.

Higher octane generally has less energy/burns slower to allow higher compression operation. If used in a lower compression motor, as is our stock 1140cc, some fuel may not be burned, which is a leading cause of carbon build-up...which may affect our IACV operation.

I do not know for certain if this is causal to IACV issues, but we have more than one report of sustained high speed runs "curing" the idle issue.

I have a gallon of TruFuel, which is non-ethanol 93 octane. Pump gasoline in the southwest is usually 87/89/91 octane...rare to see anything over 91...although I can find 100 octane race gas in Baker, CA)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/TruSouth-TruFuel-4-Cycle-Ethanol-Free-Fuel-6527206/205913140
I am saving it for my next run on the Extraterrestrial Highway, where one section is pushing the limit of my 3.9 gallon tank. Not concerned about using it occasionally, but would be concerned about regular use.

Just my 2 cents...YMMV

BTW, why the preference for 93 octane for 9.5:1 compression ratio?

The same high and low idleing of my 2013 CB has been cured 'til now with a new software from Honda available in Germany. Too bad, that Honda doesn't offer it in the USA.

After all my previous failing attempts, similar to those been discribed here earlier, this seems to be the only solvation for this CB disease. At least for my CB. I wish you all luck.

Wisedrum

Glad it solved your issue(s), but if you had a component issue, it would not solve it, although the new program may have a work-around to off-set some variables. Also, only as a wild guess, perhaps the new program extensively cycles the IACV, full-travel, before startup or on shutdown, to insure more reliable operation?

Be glad when Dave gets his IACV, has time to replace and can advise if that is his cure or not. If not, there may be a throttle body warpage or carbon build-up issue.

 

[Houtman_imp]

Since arriving in the USA in 1985 I have always used 93 octane in ALL my bikes from H2, CBX , VF1000R , CB1100R, RC 30 , RC 51, John Deere lawn tractor, Honda lawn mower, Honda pressure washer, edger, blower, trimmer and other gas engine power equipment.
Perhaps one of the reasons was that being used to higher octane gas in Europe (yes I do know the different grading being used )
I probably are wasting MY money but so far all my bikes and equipment have been running and starting perfect.
I am not disputing your point of view as you are far more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to motorcycles but until something happens I will keep using 93 octane .
Most of my riding is in the mountains of WNC I should add.