CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

peterbaron_imp said:
SportsterDoc_imp said:
TPS issues are real, but usually after a long service life.
My wife had a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe 3.3 V6 and it went into limp mode while I was driving. Top speed about 10 MPH. After restarting, it behaved normal. After it did it again, I replaced the TPS. May have only been a connection issue, especially since I routinely clean the engine.,,but it had about 120,000 miles on the odometer.

Not wanting to experience limp mode again, it was best to replace it....no tests done other than using my OBDII plug-in unit.

However, with a fairly new TPS (age or miles), with little operation to damage the internal wipers, I remain skeptical that Keihin produced very many defective units.

I have not opened one, but expect the wipers to be redundant several times over *. Failure could occur if
a. All the wipers broke or lost spring pressure
b. Resistor damaged/worn
c. A lot of crud inside.

* The industrial automation company that fed my family for decades built systems to assemble and test several automotive sensors. All the ones with moving parts for variable resistance had multiple wipers (contact fingers).

Again, since the issue is intermittent and with sensors relatively young, I would thoroughly check for good connector connections.
Click to expand...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If you still have it????......
A good Hyundai tech and a friend of mine told me this::

Some Santa Fe with 3.3L engine may experience a MIL with the ETC (Electronic Throttle Control) system-related DTC P2135
-P2135:Throttle position sensor 1/2 voltage correlation) or P0110 or P0128 P0300 or P030X or P0638 and others.
An improved Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and ECM software upgrade or complete updated throttle body are available to resolve this condition.

pb
Click to expand...
Peter
Thank you much, but we traded it on a Nissan Frontier SV 4WD, June 2016, right after a cross country trip to see our daughters in Georgia. It had well over 140,000 miles and was running quite well...but one snow storm kept us from driving the last ~1/4 mile to our Arizona ranch (Jeep trail) and we needed 4WD.

Other than a minor issue with one of the dual fuel level sensors and the TPS, it was faultless. Did not even need brakes until ~105,000 miles (mostly long distance driving) and was on the original NGK platinum spark plugs.

OK, I guess I sufficiently contributed to thread drift.
 
In the meantime, how many CB1100 riders, who have experienced idle instability, have the following conditions:
1. Bike is parked outdoors, uncovered?
2. Bike is ridden in rain, especially heavy rain?
3. Bike is hosed off, occasionally/frequently?

1. Bike is always parked indoors AND covered.
2. Bike has been lightly rained on only twice. Each time the bike was thoroughly dried upon returning to home.
3. Bike is NEVER hosed off.

I live in San Diego, where our annual rainfall is 10 inches. I grew up in upstate NY, where I carried a rain coat on the bike, and rode through severe thunderstorms, and in the rain on a regular basis. I HATE riding in the rain, and the weather was the main reason I moved to San Diego 30 years ago.
 
We are having a thunderstorm/lightning right now. Weird in January.
 
I lived outside Owego for 4 years in the 80’s. Nobody do that. Living in that valley was bad. Too many not sunny days.
 
Has anyone had any issues relating to temperature? I’m in California and have been riding a bit during the Central Valleys cold weather, but today was a real nice somewhat warm day and my low idle issue is back. During the valley cold days I had high idle that would increase when I would begin to engage the clutch. This would happen for about 10 minutes then would stop after it warmed up. With the warmer days coming I think I may bring it in (extended factory warranty) and see what can be found, only issue is the shop will charge ME if they do not find the issue. Anyone here near Modesto that can recommend a decent shop, I’ll Go anywhere within 100 miles to get this figured out. Shops around here don’t seem to want to touch this bike.

I apologize if this has already been asked, I had a few (too many) shots and wouldn’t be able to read through the number of pages at the moment.

Thanks guys!
 
Thanks Mechanix, there seems to be a relation ship with higher temperatures, not clear why for now but you are not the first to link the ii issue to warm conditions.

Could you explain in more detail what happens when the clutch is engaged? is the engine warmed up, does it happen consistently, does the idle return when the clutch is released etc.

It would help your case if you could document the situation with appropriate comment on the video and show them what happens and how often it occurs, even better post it on youtube so everybody can see it, also get some sort of proof that you made the dealer aware of this idle behaviour ( witness ) and when before the warranty runs out, according to my nz dealer Honda do stand behind their product even after the warranty expires but require strong proof to do so.

max
 
Ditto on Max's question about clutch engagement.
I typically give it a bit of throttle while releasing the clutch, so an increase in RPMs would be expected.

High or low idle can be an IACV symptom. Could also be a vacuum leak. Have you snugged the 8 hose clamps from throttle bodies to intake manifold?
 
DaSwami_imp said:
Still no answer re: VIN's? Is this a random occurrence or linked to a VIN range?
Click to expand...

Swami we would like to get a handle on the affected vin's too, if it is a risk of theft and illicit registering aspect maybe just provide a number that spoofs the last one or two digits, ie; 110002400 instead of 110002456, that should be safe enough, we are only interested in the 1000 range , in this case 24_ _.

and maybe a new column in the spreadsheet for this purpose,what do you think?
 
My 2013 has developed this issue as well after 50K miles. I'm not sure you will find a range of VIN #'s particularly helpful.
 
kennyw_imp said:
My 2013 has developed this issue as well after 50K miles. I'm not sure you will find a range of VIN #'s particularly helpful.
Click to expand...
Hi Kenny, interesting about the issue after 50k miles, yep, makes ya think.

How did yours start and how bad is it?
Have you been following Dave's case?

Thanks for chiming in

max
 
max_imp said:
Thanks Mechanix, there seems to be a relation ship with higher temperatures, not clear why for now but you are not the first to link the ii issue to warm conditions.

Could you explain in more detail what happens when the clutch is engaged? is the engine warmed up, does it happen consistently, does the idle return when the clutch is released etc.

It would help your case if you could document the situation with appropriate comment on the video and show them what happens and how often it occurs, even better post it on youtube so everybody can see it, also get some sort of proof that you made the dealer aware of this idle behaviour ( witness ) and when before the warranty runs out, according to my nz dealer Honda do stand behind their product even after the warranty expires but require strong proof to do so.

max
Click to expand...


Well, I have video of the low idle issue, I hope to get a video of the idle increase when cold and clutch being released.

What happens is when it’s cold (I’m guessing below 55degrees) the idle is a bit high...normal. But when I begin to release the clutch (without any throttle) the rpm goes up to almost 1700. I usually use two fingers for my clutch and when the lever is pulled back there is no clutch engagement but still a bit more lever to pull. If I do not pull the lever past a certain point the rpm will stay high...until the lever is pulled back to the grip. Make any sense?

I have a 5 mile ride to work and this high idle clutch issue will happen for 4 miles of that...in the cold.
SportsterDoc_imp said:
Ditto on Max's question about clutch engagement.
I typically give it a bit of throttle while releasing the clutch, so an increase in RPMs would be expected.

High or low idle can be an IACV symptom. Could also be a vacuum leak. Have you snugged the 8 hose clamps from throttle bodies to intake manifold?
Click to expand...

I’ve checked the clamps...all tight. I also went through to make sure all hoses were tight and in place, all plugs secure and free of any corrosion or pinched/damaged wires.

Normally I give it a bit of throttle too when getting started but it seems when it is not completely warmed up it will increase the rpm’s when the clutch starts to be released...almost as if the idle is tied into the safety switch to the clutch. I do not have a wiring diagram or a service manual yet so I’m not sure how this is all set up.

I’m starting a log in the morning if it’s not too late with the weather changing over here in the valley.
 
Hi Mech, looking at your part of the spreadsheet i assume that is the video you refer to ( correct me if i am wrong at any stage ).

So the engine is cold, started and idling at 1500 rpm as they normally do, but when you pull the clutch in it idles at 1700 rpm instead,unless the lever is pulled close to the handle and drops back to 1500 rpm ( had to read your explanation 6 times and i think this is what you mean ).

It is possible that because of the cold temperature the engine idles at 1700 instead of 1500 rpm.

Just checked and the switch on the clutch is open when the lever is forward, and closes if the lever is pulled back, you can hear when it operates.
The wiring is hard wired ( not dependant on the elecrtonic control module ) but does provide input TO the ecm.
That means the clutch, neutral and sidestand work to prevent starting even if the ecm is faulty.
The inputs to the ecm are; b22 sstand and b33 nl sw.

To verify if it is the switch you can pull one connector off and confirm the switch is causing the change in rpm.

here is the diagram courtesy of popgun





Question is; has it always been like this in below 55 degrees or is this new behaviour that started with low idle, my guess is it is not related but who knows.

Interesting about the warmup period of 4 miles, do the rpm's gradually lower when the engine heats up or is there a sudden drop and when does the low idle start?

Thanks for checking the clamps.
 
My bike is only having the issue in hot weather (90F+) combined with stop and go traffic. Not a single problem since last August though. Last August is also the first time I experienced the symptoms to the extent of the bike dieing.

I'm willing to bet my case is wear or corrosion starting to affect the performance of something rather than defective parts from the factory.

I park indoors at home and outdoors at work. I ride in all weather conditions except snow. My bike gets washed twice a year, if it needs it or not.
 
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