the Ferret
Road warrior
Fixed? Hahahaaaa. Yes, until it isn't.
Sad but true
Sad but true
CB1100 Idle speed instability problem
- Thread starter ericlo69_imp
- Start date
Lord Popgun
Road warrior
Doc,
EOT—in the DTC index (fault codes) there are 2 for the EOT. One is EOT sensor circuit high voltage (more than 4.93v) and one for low voltage (less than 0.04v)
TP sensor—one for low voltage (less than 0.3v) and one for high voltage (more than 4.93v)
IAT sensor—one for low voltage (less than 0.07v) and one for high voltage (more than 4.93V)
MAP sensor- one for low voltage (less than 0.2v) and one for high voltage (3.9v). One fault is for hose connection, no values of anything on the DTC list.
As for the TPS troubleshooting and checks, there are 3 pages of steps. I’m not typing all that. Check your PM.
EOT—in the DTC index (fault codes) there are 2 for the EOT. One is EOT sensor circuit high voltage (more than 4.93v) and one for low voltage (less than 0.04v)
TP sensor—one for low voltage (less than 0.3v) and one for high voltage (more than 4.93v)
IAT sensor—one for low voltage (less than 0.07v) and one for high voltage (more than 4.93V)
MAP sensor- one for low voltage (less than 0.2v) and one for high voltage (3.9v). One fault is for hose connection, no values of anything on the DTC list.
As for the TPS troubleshooting and checks, there are 3 pages of steps. I’m not typing all that. Check your PM.
peterbaron
Road warrior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Lord Popgun_imp said:
NOTHING wrong with popgun statement at all !!!!!!
Just want to add 2 cents...and I am NOT that mentioned knowledgeable member...
2013-14 HONDA-CB1100 :: TPS voltage & resistance test WITHOUT removing TPS
Test with digital multimeter (for advanced users)..
TPS (variable resistor) has 3 wires/pins: power supply(+), ground(-) and signal::
NEVER disconnect/reconnect TPS connector if IGN is ON, EVER
This is NOT a field fix to your problem - TPS test only
You do all these tests at your own risk/I assume no responsibility
IF you have a TPS problem = most likely you would have a DTC (history, pending or active, possible ELO/MIL ON).....or.....poor connection somewhere ...
WHEN ENGINE FULLY WARMED UP AND IDLING - WIGGLE/PRESS BLACK/3 PIN TPS CONNECTOR (near your L leg) and see if there is some RPM fluctuation.. = SIMPLE TEST FOR EVERYONE.
These advanced tests might be helpful::
TPS wiring::
black/yellow = power supply (+)
black/green = ground (-)
black/red = signal
This Honda diagram, I have, SUCS BIG TIME !!!!! = due to NO pin numbers
TEST 1
*IGN ON, Engine/stop switch OFF, backprobe ground and signal = about 0 Volts = OK when throttle is closed. NOTE:: I do not think it will be dead on 0/ZERO Volts, I think it will be slightly above..like 0.1 - 0.2 V
*TPS sensor VOLTAGE must smoothly/continuously increase/decrease when throttle is opening/closing respectively...so you MUST have smooth Voltage operation from about 0V (closed) to about 4.75 - 5.25 V at WOT = OK
TEST 2
*IGN OFF, Engine/stop switch OFF, DISCONNECT black TPS connector (3pins)
* TURN IGN ON, do NOT start (while TPS connector disconnected)
* Measure the voltage between black/yellow(+) and black/green(-) = MUST be within 4.75 - 5.25 V = OK
** Tell me what is your voltage between black/green(-) and black/red (signal), PLEASE = ? V **
TEST 3
*IGN OFF
* Disconnect black/3pin TPS connector
* Measure TPSensor side (NOT harness) resistance between black/red & black/green = within 0.5 - 1.5 kOhm = OK..
Manual does NOT tell me TPS resistance at WOT or/and between ground(-) and power supply(+)...but from my TPS experience would be above 1.5 kOhms
This entire TPS circuit consists of 4 connectors: TPS (black 3 pins), SUB black/10 pin, JOINT black/12 pin and ECM/ECU gray/33pin...and poor contact might be anywhere...would first start with TPS connector as per tests 1,2,3
Do NOT want to make complicated but this is how it works and how to test it
MAKE sure your throttle cable has some slack !!!
After disconnecting ANY connector:: check it, clean it, apply connector enhancer for better conductivity, please.
pb
max
Road warrior
Hi again doc, some more info and a video.
Voltage tested at engine cold is 4.04 volts ( 2000 ohms ) 1500 rpm
and hot engine measures 0.909 volts (300 ohms ) 1050 rpm
Interestingly i could not get the engine to idle below 1050 rpm? ( low rpm issue ).
Seems perfect for the a/d converter in the cpu in the ecm ( geeks only ).http://cb1100forum.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif
Please be careful not to damage the little terminals inside the eot sensor, this is a bit of an advanced test which requires knowledge of electronics and connectors!
Really good request of the vin numbers, it may relate to a particular batch that had something different done.
The issue is that japan does not have any faulty bikes to test and that makes it hard for them to come up with an answer,
so if we can give them some numbers they may find something that relates to this batch of bikes.
New youtube video on today's test with the relationship between the eot sensor and change of rpm
;
as usual; cheers Max
Voltage tested at engine cold is 4.04 volts ( 2000 ohms ) 1500 rpm
and hot engine measures 0.909 volts (300 ohms ) 1050 rpm
Interestingly i could not get the engine to idle below 1050 rpm? ( low rpm issue ).
Seems perfect for the a/d converter in the cpu in the ecm ( geeks only ).http://cb1100forum.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.gif
Please be careful not to damage the little terminals inside the eot sensor, this is a bit of an advanced test which requires knowledge of electronics and connectors!
Really good request of the vin numbers, it may relate to a particular batch that had something different done.
The issue is that japan does not have any faulty bikes to test and that makes it hard for them to come up with an answer,
so if we can give them some numbers they may find something that relates to this batch of bikes.
New youtube video on today's test with the relationship between the eot sensor and change of rpm
;
as usual; cheers Max
max
Road warrior
Just some pics to show how i tested the rpm eot relationship.
first pic is what is connected and type of connectors ( everything is wired in parallel )
second is with engine lukewarm r eot = 1000 ohm 3.468 v and 1340 rpm.
third is engine warmed up just enough for the rpm to settle at 1050 rpm at 2.17 v at 371 ohm.
So the point where the engine settles at 1050 rpm appears to be 2 volts across the eot sensor,
first pic is what is connected and type of connectors ( everything is wired in parallel )
second is with engine lukewarm r eot = 1000 ohm 3.468 v and 1340 rpm.
third is engine warmed up just enough for the rpm to settle at 1050 rpm at 2.17 v at 371 ohm.
So the point where the engine settles at 1050 rpm appears to be 2 volts across the eot sensor,
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
pdedse_imp said:
May depend upon the nature of the leak:
1. intake boot may be affected by thermal expansion
2. cracked/loose hose may be affected by movement
3. cracked fitting (4 way or 5 way) may be affected by heat and/or movement. Small crack = high idle...crack opens and bike barely idles.
Not saying this is the issue, but worth checking:
a. Snug clamp bolts
b. Check hoses are not hardened and pushjed all the way on.
c. inspect fittings
d. apply unlit propane and listen for idle speed change
Good info and great pics!max_imp said:
max_imp said:
Great visual depiction of correlation of lowering EOT voltage with lowering of idle speed. In the first test as both were dropping, then the EOT voltage climbed , which should indicate oil colder, instead of warming up.max_imp said:
Somehow added resistance is getting into the EOT-ECU circuit:
Air pocket at EOT possible???
Confirm that the voltage probe is at ECU connector?
If so, this would eliminate
a. Bad connection at EOT and/or ECU
b. Partially broken wire
and points to a defective EOT
I just got home from a long meeting with some paperwork to do tonight, so I am not completely focused, but my initial thinking is that your video indicates that it is NOT
A. an internal ECU / ECU program issue
B. not a vacuum issue
C. Not an IAC issue
on your bike.
There are many different bikes, both manufacturer and model, with EFI idle issues...there may be many different causes.
Peterpeterbaron_imp said:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Lord Popgun_imp said:
NOTHING wrong with popgun statement at all !!!!!!
Just want to add 2 cents...and I am NOT that mentioned knowledgeable member...
2013-14 HONDA-CB1100 :: TPS voltage & resistance test WITHOUT removing TPS
Test with digital multimeter (for advanced users)..
TPS (variable resistor) has 3 wires/pins: power supply(+), ground(-) and signal::
NEVER disconnect/reconnect TPS connector if IGN is ON, EVER
This is NOT a field fix to your problem - TPS test only
You do all these tests at your own risk/I assume no responsibility
IF you have a TPS problem = most likely you would have a DTC (history, pending or active, possible ELO/MIL ON).....or.....poor connection somewhere ...
WHEN ENGINE FULLY WARMED UP AND IDLING - WIGGLE/PRESS BLACK/3 PIN TPS CONNECTOR (near your L leg) and see if there is some RPM fluctuation.. = SIMPLE TEST FOR EVERYONE.
These advanced tests might be helpful::
TPS wiring::
black/yellow = power supply (+)
black/green = ground (-)
black/red = signal
This Honda diagram, I have, SUCS BIG TIME !!!!! = due to NO pin numbers
TEST 1
*IGN ON, Engine/stop switch OFF, backprobe ground and signal = about 0 Volts = OK when throttle is closed. NOTE:: I do not think it will be dead on 0/ZERO Volts, I think it will be slightly above..like 0.1 - 0.2 V
*TPS sensor VOLTAGE must smoothly/continuously increase/decrease when throttle is opening/closing respectively...so you MUST have smooth Voltage operation from about 0V (closed) to about 4.75 - 5.25 V at WOT = OK
TEST 2
*IGN OFF, Engine/stop switch OFF, DISCONNECT black TPS connector (3pins)
* TURN IGN ON, do NOT start (while TPS connector disconnected)
* Measure the voltage between black/yellow(+) and black/green(-) = MUST be within 4.75 - 5.25 V = OK
** Tell me what is your voltage between black/green(-) and black/red (signal), PLEASE = ? V **
TEST 3
*IGN OFF
* Disconnect black/3pin TPS connector
* Measure TPSensor side (NOT harness) resistance between black/red & black/green = within 0.5 - 1.5 kOhm = OK..
Manual does NOT tell me TPS resistance at WOT or/and between ground(-) and power supply(+)...but from my TPS experience would be above 1.5 kOhms
This entire TPS circuit consists of 4 connectors: TPS (black 3 pins), SUB black/10 pin, JOINT black/12 pin and ECM/ECU gray/33pin...and poor contact might be anywhere...would first start with TPS connector as per tests 1,2,3
Do NOT want to make complicated but this is how it works and how to test it
MAKE sure your throttle cable has some slack !!!
After disconnecting ANY connector:: check it, clean it, apply connector enhancer for better conductivity, please.
pb
Excellent info
Thank you much...will finish evaluating in the morning
This allows present and future member to evaluate (albeit carefully), if the need arises.
In the automotive world TPS failures are somewhat common, especially above 100,000 miles and typically cause a limp mode. I would expect few issues on a bike with much lower miles, but still very surprised that a TPS cannot be purchased separately.
max
Road warrior
Yes doc, the connector goes to the ecu.
it was disconnected from the eot sensor and connected to the variable resistor only and the values on the video are with the variable resistor ( potmeter ).
On the pics the eot sensor WAS connected and the voltage displayed was across the eot sensor, measuring voltage as the engine warmed up just as would be the case as per normal, i just started lukewarm instead of cold.
the point of interest was the settle poin at which the engine reaches 1050 rpm.
I know it is a bit fluffy, cheers max
it was disconnected from the eot sensor and connected to the variable resistor only and the values on the video are with the variable resistor ( potmeter ).
On the pics the eot sensor WAS connected and the voltage displayed was across the eot sensor, measuring voltage as the engine warmed up just as would be the case as per normal, i just started lukewarm instead of cold.
the point of interest was the settle poin at which the engine reaches 1050 rpm.
I know it is a bit fluffy, cheers max
Hi Sportsterdoc. I replaced the EOT sensor and it did nothing. This sensor is extremely sensitive to temperature - just holding it in your hand will raise the temperature enough to considerably change the resistance. Both my old and new sensors checked out according to the Honda service manual (but my body temperature would cause them to go out of spec). If I hadn't already replaced the EOT sensor I might try your suggestion, although it may be difficult to record an accurate temperature. Thank you for the suggestion.SportsterDoc_imp said:
Can you please contact Honda and let them know? The phone number and contact name is in this thread. Thank you.dsan1964_imp said:
Some observations; engine does not start with eot sensor disconnected and engine light comes on, it just stutters.
[/QUOTE]
Hi Max. When I disconnect the EOT sensor on my 2014 Dlx the check engine and temperature lights both go on, but the bike starts and runs fine. Actually, when it is experiencing either the high idle or low idle condition unplugging the EOT sensor will cure the problem - but I must first turn the bike off with the key before unplugging it, and then restart it. Interesting that your bike will not restart. I wonder how other members bike would react to unplugging the EOT sensor?
max
Road warrior
Hi Dave, good to hear from you again.
A question; in general would you agree that the issue starts gradually at some point and then gets progressively worse?
Not trying to put words in your mouth , just thinking in one direction and one step at a time if that makes sense..
Cheers max
A question; in general would you agree that the issue starts gradually at some point and then gets progressively worse?
Not trying to put words in your mouth , just thinking in one direction and one step at a time if that makes sense..
Cheers max
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
Hi Max. When I disconnect the EOT sensor on my 2014 Dlx the check engine and temperature lights both go on, but the bike starts and runs fine. Actually, when it is experiencing either the high idle or low idle condition unplugging the EOT sensor will cure the problem - but I must first turn the bike off with the key before unplugging it, and then restart it. Interesting that your bike will not restart. I wonder how other members bike would react to unplugging the EOT sensor?Dave_imp said:
[/QUOTE]
Dave
There is likely more than one issue affecting low or high idle.
Even though Max has documented a direct linear correlation between EOT output and idle speed, that does not seem be your issue.
The resistance value is at 20C. Warming it in your hand is expected to change the resistance.
If that is the case it is explainable with several options:max_imp said:
a. Sensor deterioration
b. Loose connection/broken wire worsening
c. Vacuum leak increasing/fluctuating
You all may get weary of me mentioning vacuum leaks, but they are very common on the XLForum.
Hi Max. My issue started with the slow idle / stalling. However, it was never a bad as the video on this thread. I could always restart my bike after it stalled, and it would run fine at a higher RPM - it just didn't want to idle. This issue went away by itself, and then the high idle (1,500 rpm) started about two months later. This lasted about 1 - 2 months. After a WFO run in the desert (started at low RPM in 4th gear to make a pass with a passenger on back and ran through the gears while wide open, but never exceeding 6,000 RPM), the high RPM idle issue cured itself also, and has never returned. About 2,000 trouble-free miles later the low idle / stalling has returned. I can keep the bike from stalling by blipping the throttle - it runs fine as soon as the RPM is increased above about 3,000. This low RPM / stalling comes and goes at will now. I will put my bike away when the problem occurs, and start it up the next day and it will run perfectly. I believed that the high RPM issue was brought on by slow, stop & go riding, when the engine got hot. But I have seen no connection to the riding conditions or temperature for the low RPM / stalling. In my opinion, the fuel mixture is leaning out when the low RPM condition occurs. I can sense a different response when I blip the throttle when this condition is happening that sure reminds me of a cold starting condition with a carbureted bike. Do you think there is any connection to the level of oil in the bike and this problem? Is it possible that excess oil somehow causes the EOT sensor to send a bad signal to the ECM? Also, my bike experienced poor low speed running from the day I bought it, which was finally cured by the TPS reset (I am extremely sensitive to how my bike runs, and the dealer said it was running fine, but I felt an immediate improvement after the TPS reset.) My bike has never shown an error code. Thank you so much for digging into this - I just don't have the time, or experience to diagnose electrical problems on my own.max_imp said:
peterbaron
Road warrior
May depend upon the nature of the leak:SportsterDoc_imp said:pdedse_imp said:
May depend upon the nature of the leak:
1. intake boot may be affected by thermal expansion
2. cracked/loose hose may be affected by movement
3. cracked fitting (4 way or 5 way) may be affected by heat and/or movement. Small crack = high idle...crack opens and bike barely idles.
Not saying this is the issue, but worth checking:
a. Snug clamp bolts
b. Check hoses are not hardened and pushjed all the way on.
c. inspect fittings
d. apply unlit propane and listen for idle speed change
Good info and great pics!max_imp said:
max_imp said:Great visual depiction of correlation of lowering EOT voltage with lowering of idle speed. In the first test as both were dropping, then the EOT voltage climbed , which should indicate oil colder, instead of warming up.max_imp said:
Somehow added resistance is getting into the EOT-ECU circuit:
Air pocket at EOT possible???
Confirm that the voltage probe is at ECU connector?
If so, this would eliminate
a. Bad connection at EOT and/or ECU
b. Partially broken wire
and points to a defective EOT
I just got home from a long meeting with some paperwork to do tonight, so I am not completely focused, but my initial thinking is that your video indicates that it is NOT
A. an internal ECU / ECU program issue
B. not a vacuum issue
C. Not an IAC issue
on your bike.
There are many different bikes, both manufacturer and model, with EFI idle issues...there may be many different causes.
Peterpeterbaron_imp said:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Lord Popgun_imp said:
NOTHING wrong with popgun statement at all !!!!!!
Just want to add 2 cents...and I am NOT that mentioned knowledgeable member...
2013-14 HONDA-CB1100 :: TPS voltage & resistance test WITHOUT removing TPS
Test with digital multimeter (for advanced users)..
TPS (variable resistor) has 3 wires/pins: power supply(+), ground(-) and signal::
NEVER disconnect/reconnect TPS connector if IGN is ON, EVER
This is NOT a field fix to your problem - TPS test only
You do all these tests at your own risk/I assume no responsibility
IF you have a TPS problem = most likely you would have a DTC (history, pending or active, possible ELO/MIL ON).....or.....poor connection somewhere ...
WHEN ENGINE FULLY WARMED UP AND IDLING - WIGGLE/PRESS BLACK/3 PIN TPS CONNECTOR (near your L leg) and see if there is some RPM fluctuation.. = SIMPLE TEST FOR EVERYONE.
These advanced tests might be helpful::
TPS wiring::
black/yellow = power supply (+)
black/green = ground (-)
black/red = signal
This Honda diagram, I have, SUCS BIG TIME !!!!! = due to NO pin numbers
TEST 1
*IGN ON, Engine/stop switch OFF, backprobe ground and signal = about 0 Volts = OK when throttle is closed. NOTE:: I do not think it will be dead on 0/ZERO Volts, I think it will be slightly above..like 0.1 - 0.2 V
*TPS sensor VOLTAGE must smoothly/continuously increase/decrease when throttle is opening/closing respectively...so you MUST have smooth Voltage operation from about 0V (closed) to about 4.75 - 5.25 V at WOT = OK
TEST 2
*IGN OFF, Engine/stop switch OFF, DISCONNECT black TPS connector (3pins)
* TURN IGN ON, do NOT start (while TPS connector disconnected)
* Measure the voltage between black/yellow(+) and black/green(-) = MUST be within 4.75 - 5.25 V = OK
** Tell me what is your voltage between black/green(-) and black/red (signal), PLEASE = ? V **
TEST 3
*IGN OFF
* Disconnect black/3pin TPS connector
* Measure TPSensor side (NOT harness) resistance between black/red & black/green = within 0.5 - 1.5 kOhm = OK..
Manual does NOT tell me TPS resistance at WOT or/and between ground(-) and power supply(+)...but from my TPS experience would be above 1.5 kOhms
This entire TPS circuit consists of 4 connectors: TPS (black 3 pins), SUB black/10 pin, JOINT black/12 pin and ECM/ECU gray/33pin...and poor contact might be anywhere...would first start with TPS connector as per tests 1,2,3
Do NOT want to make complicated but this is how it works and how to test it
MAKE sure your throttle cable has some slack !!!
After disconnecting ANY connector:: check it, clean it, apply connector enhancer for better conductivity, please.
pb
Excellent info
Thank you much...will finish evaluating in the morning
This allows present and future member to evaluate (albeit carefully), if the need arises.
In the automotive world TPS failures are somewhat common, especially above 100,000 miles and typically cause a limp mode. I would expect few issues on a bike with much lower miles, but still very surprised that a TPS cannot be purchased separately.
1. intake boot may be affected by thermal expansion
2. cracked/loose hose may be affected by movement
3. cracked fitting (4 way or 5 way) may be affected by heat and/or movement. Small crack = high idle...crack opens and bike barely idles.
Not saying this is the issue, but worth checking:
a. Snug clamp bolts
b. Check hoses are not hardened and pushjed all the way on.
c. inspect fittings
d. apply unlit propane and listen for idle speed change
Good info and great pics!max_imp said:
Great visual depiction of correlation of lowering EOT voltage with lowering of idle speed. In the first test as both were dropping, then the EOT voltage climbed , which should indicate oil colder, instead of warming up.max_imp said:
Somehow added resistance is getting into the EOT-ECU circuit:
Air pocket at EOT possible???
Confirm that the voltage probe is at ECU connector?
If so, this would eliminate
a. Bad connection at EOT and/or ECU
b. Partially broken wire
and points to a defective EOT
I just got home from a long meeting with some paperwork to do tonight, so I am not completely focused, but my initial thinking is that your video indicates that it is NOT
A. an internal ECU / ECU program issue
B. not a vacuum issue
C. Not an IAC issue
on your bike.
There are many different bikes, both manufacturer and model, with EFI idle issues...there may be many different causes.
Peterpeterbaron_imp said:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Lord Popgun_imp said:
NOTHING wrong with popgun statement at all !!!!!!
Just want to add 2 cents...and I am NOT that mentioned knowledgeable member...
2013-14 HONDA-CB1100 :: TPS voltage & resistance test WITHOUT removing TPS
Test with digital multimeter (for advanced users)..
TPS (variable resistor) has 3 wires/pins: power supply(+), ground(-) and signal::
NEVER disconnect/reconnect TPS connector if IGN is ON, EVER
This is NOT a field fix to your problem - TPS test only
You do all these tests at your own risk/I assume no responsibility
IF you have a TPS problem = most likely you would have a DTC (history, pending or active, possible ELO/MIL ON).....or.....poor connection somewhere ...
WHEN ENGINE FULLY WARMED UP AND IDLING - WIGGLE/PRESS BLACK/3 PIN TPS CONNECTOR (near your L leg) and see if there is some RPM fluctuation.. = SIMPLE TEST FOR EVERYONE.
These advanced tests might be helpful::
TPS wiring::
black/yellow = power supply (+)
black/green = ground (-)
black/red = signal
This Honda diagram, I have, SUCS BIG TIME !!!!! = due to NO pin numbers
TEST 1
*IGN ON, Engine/stop switch OFF, backprobe ground and signal = about 0 Volts = OK when throttle is closed. NOTE:: I do not think it will be dead on 0/ZERO Volts, I think it will be slightly above..like 0.1 - 0.2 V
*TPS sensor VOLTAGE must smoothly/continuously increase/decrease when throttle is opening/closing respectively...so you MUST have smooth Voltage operation from about 0V (closed) to about 4.75 - 5.25 V at WOT = OK
TEST 2
*IGN OFF, Engine/stop switch OFF, DISCONNECT black TPS connector (3pins)
* TURN IGN ON, do NOT start (while TPS connector disconnected)
* Measure the voltage between black/yellow(+) and black/green(-) = MUST be within 4.75 - 5.25 V = OK
** Tell me what is your voltage between black/green(-) and black/red (signal), PLEASE = ? V **
TEST 3
*IGN OFF
* Disconnect black/3pin TPS connector
* Measure TPSensor side (NOT harness) resistance between black/red & black/green = within 0.5 - 1.5 kOhm = OK..
Manual does NOT tell me TPS resistance at WOT or/and between ground(-) and power supply(+)...but from my TPS experience would be above 1.5 kOhms
This entire TPS circuit consists of 4 connectors: TPS (black 3 pins), SUB black/10 pin, JOINT black/12 pin and ECM/ECU gray/33pin...and poor contact might be anywhere...would first start with TPS connector as per tests 1,2,3
Do NOT want to make complicated but this is how it works and how to test it
MAKE sure your throttle cable has some slack !!!
After disconnecting ANY connector:: check it, clean it, apply connector enhancer for better conductivity, please.
pb
Excellent info
Thank you much...will finish evaluating in the morning
This allows present and future member to evaluate (albeit carefully), if the need arises.
In the automotive world TPS failures are somewhat common, especially above 100,000 miles and typically cause a limp mode. I would expect few issues on a bike with much lower miles, but still very surprised that a TPS cannot be purchased separately.
Doc,
U R absolutely right, TPS is very simple device and should be able to purchase separately as well as ISCSV and stepper motor....Honda is taking huge advantage of customers.
More than certain Honda does not make above mentioned parts...most likely Keihin, ND, Kefico, Mitsubishi... or some others manufactures...
If we dig, we can find supplier..
But as we said = diagnose faulty part before replacement
...and if you need further assistance, drop me a line...forum or PM..perhaps I can help
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I...00000003844/3000000202035/31184.htm?view=grid
Cheers
pb
kennyw
Road warrior
I have had the low idle issue twice on my 2013 with 50k miles. Both times were stop and go traffic with temps above 90*F.
Both times simply shutting off the kill switch, turning it back on, and re-starting the bike fixed it temporarily. The problem will creep up again after 10-15 minutes if traffic remained bad but stayed away if traffic started moving. I haven't had the problem again after the temps went below 90*F.
I have not had the high idle issue.
Both times simply shutting off the kill switch, turning it back on, and re-starting the bike fixed it temporarily. The problem will creep up again after 10-15 minutes if traffic remained bad but stayed away if traffic started moving. I haven't had the problem again after the temps went below 90*F.
I have not had the high idle issue.
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
Heat can affect electronics.kennyw_imp said:
If a heat related issue is suspected of an electronic device, but it is intermittent, it can oft be replicated using a hair dryer.
Does the FSM detail what actions the ECU takes under higher operating temperatures?...or if the EOT is signaling the ECU that it is hotter than it actually is.
1. Is IAC clean?Dave_imp said:
2. Have connections to IAC and EOT been disconnected and reconnected to "wipe" the contacts to insure a good connection?
3. Plugs read?...burning clean?
4. Check for vacuum leak (from post 570: I had a failure to idle issue on my V7II, first experienced at 8,000 feet altitude, ~5 months in service and 6,000 miles. It required throttle to maintain idle, even after returning to 2,200 feet elevation. Cured by tightening band around rubber from single throttle body to intake manifold.) It was a quick restart when it died, also.
5. Connections to all other sensors (O2, IAT, CKP) disconnected and reconnected to "wipe" the contacts to insure a good connection? On the XLForum, 07 up Sportsters have solved several issues by cleaning the CKP connection, which is down low and exposed to road grime.
6. Sensor values compared to FSM values?
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
This thread may assist with sensor checking.
However, it is strongly recommended to check for vacuum leaks, before getting into connectors, wiring and sensors:
Diagnostic Trouble Codes & Sensor testing
However, it is strongly recommended to check for vacuum leaks, before getting into connectors, wiring and sensors:
Diagnostic Trouble Codes & Sensor testing
1. Is IAC clean?
I haven't checked, but agree this is a very good idea. Plan to do this when I get around to checking my valve clearances.
2. Have connections to IAC and EOT been disconnected and reconnected to "wipe" the contacts to insure a good connection?
Haven't checked the IACV (will do), but have replaced the EOT sensor, and have had it disconnected and reconnected several times.
3. Plugs read?...burning clean?
Checked them once, the first time the problem surfaced, and they looked perfect.
4. Check for vacuum leak (from post 570: I had a failure to idle issue on my V7II, first experienced at 8,000 feet altitude, ~5 months in service and 6,000 miles. It required throttle to maintain idle, even after returning to 2,200 feet elevation. Cured by tightening band around rubber from single throttle body to intake manifold.) It was a quick restart when it died, also.
Haven't checked, but this is a good suggestion and will do this. Can I get at all four without having to disassembly a whole lot of things - like removing the gas tank?
5. Connections to all other sensors (O2, IAT, CKP) disconnected and reconnected to "wipe" the contacts to insure a good connection? On the XLForum, 07 up Sportsters have solved several issues by cleaning the CKP connection, which is down low and exposed to road grime.
Haven't done this, but will.
6. Sensor values compared to FSM values?
Not yet.
I haven't checked, but agree this is a very good idea. Plan to do this when I get around to checking my valve clearances.
2. Have connections to IAC and EOT been disconnected and reconnected to "wipe" the contacts to insure a good connection?
Haven't checked the IACV (will do), but have replaced the EOT sensor, and have had it disconnected and reconnected several times.
3. Plugs read?...burning clean?
Checked them once, the first time the problem surfaced, and they looked perfect.
4. Check for vacuum leak (from post 570: I had a failure to idle issue on my V7II, first experienced at 8,000 feet altitude, ~5 months in service and 6,000 miles. It required throttle to maintain idle, even after returning to 2,200 feet elevation. Cured by tightening band around rubber from single throttle body to intake manifold.) It was a quick restart when it died, also.
Haven't checked, but this is a good suggestion and will do this. Can I get at all four without having to disassembly a whole lot of things - like removing the gas tank?
5. Connections to all other sensors (O2, IAT, CKP) disconnected and reconnected to "wipe" the contacts to insure a good connection? On the XLForum, 07 up Sportsters have solved several issues by cleaning the CKP connection, which is down low and exposed to road grime.
Haven't done this, but will.
6. Sensor values compared to FSM values?
Not yet.
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
No need to remove anything.Dave_imp said:
I used a 8 mm 6 point socket on an extension to check the snugness on mine. Two of the innermost clamps had a bit of an angle, so a universal joint was helpful. Not good (on the life of the rubber) or necessary to overtighten, just "snug". For me that is two fingers close to the ratchet on a 1/4" drive.
To check the 4 way and 5 way vacuum fittings (3/16"?), it may require tank removal, but personally I would prefer to not deal with the fuel quick disconnect, if not necessary. A long screwdriver, flashlight and gentle probing will probably detect a crack, if present.
Wish I had not given away my vacuum gauge, then I could advise a normal vacuum read.
Lord Popgun
Road warrior
Doc, I just got a DigiSync digital manometer to use to sync the throttle valves on my ST. I could use that to read vacuum, BUT, I fired up the Healtech software and it gives MAP reading in psig (or Kpa-user selectable)
I’ll have to fire up the CB and see what it reads. Its raining pretty good now so maybe later.
I’ll have to fire up the CB and see what it reads. Its raining pretty good now so maybe later.
SportsterDoc
Road warrior
No rushLord Popgun_imp said:
In SoCal tomorrow and Arizona Mon-Wed.
Got a call from Honda Customer Service today! To refresh: back in late October or early November--I can't remember which--I took my bike to the dealer with letter in hand explaining the problem, but couldn't get the bike to "act up", so I decided against leaving bike with them. A few days later, talked to the SM who said without any check engine light and unable to duplicate the high/low idle issue, that it likely would be difficult for them to diagnose. He suggested I write my letter to Honda CS which I did and left a phone message about two weeks ago.
Back to my call: they wanted to know if I had the dealer look at the problem. I said "no" for the reasons stated above. We talked a good 20 minutes about the problem, the forum responses here, I mentioned a few specific cases. She said for anything to happen, the bike will need to be looked at by a dealer. No promises can be made, but she offered the hope that Honda will respond at times even when bikes are out of warranty. But, I need to the bike to break bad. Last 4 rides of 1-2 hrs riding, no real problem with idle, except just a dip below to 800-900 for a minute. Turn off engine, restart and all good. Nothing like before. But temps are down to 35-50 degrees, so that may play a part.
I asked about Service Bulletins and Recalls, of course nothing, but that she said they need to hear from owners with the problem. The answer is going to be contact dealer, but at least it will be better documented. In time, maybe that produces a response from Honda.
I told her that based on what my dealer said--that they need to replicate the problem--maybe when it warms up--I'll give them one go at it to see if they can determine anything. Anyway...at least they called as a result of me sending in my letter.
I encourage anyone experiencing the problem to do so.
Back to my call: they wanted to know if I had the dealer look at the problem. I said "no" for the reasons stated above. We talked a good 20 minutes about the problem, the forum responses here, I mentioned a few specific cases. She said for anything to happen, the bike will need to be looked at by a dealer. No promises can be made, but she offered the hope that Honda will respond at times even when bikes are out of warranty. But, I need to the bike to break bad. Last 4 rides of 1-2 hrs riding, no real problem with idle, except just a dip below to 800-900 for a minute. Turn off engine, restart and all good. Nothing like before. But temps are down to 35-50 degrees, so that may play a part.
I asked about Service Bulletins and Recalls, of course nothing, but that she said they need to hear from owners with the problem. The answer is going to be contact dealer, but at least it will be better documented. In time, maybe that produces a response from Honda.
I told her that based on what my dealer said--that they need to replicate the problem--maybe when it warms up--I'll give them one go at it to see if they can determine anything. Anyway...at least they called as a result of me sending in my letter.
I encourage anyone experiencing the problem to do so.
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