CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[dsan1964_imp]

I also put some Lucas injector cleaner as most the day it was idling around 1400 rpm. When I got home I disconnected the battery. Started it up. It went back to Normal 1000... so I will ride all day tomorrow and see whats up. On the flip side I put a yosh slip on yesterday. I'm glad the idle issues started before I installed the yosh.or I may have thought it to be the cause. I have been riding more spirited. To see about magically getting it to idle normally , And also enjoying the new sound..


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[dsan1964_imp]

Started out pretty good hanging a little high then down to normal.... then back up to 1350 1400.. irritating...


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[MM300_imp]

I've watched this thread steadily growing over the last year never once thinking I'd have a reason to post in it.

Last weekend I took a short ride and noticed for the first time that the idle would not drop below 1500.

During the work week I read the full 30 plus pages of this thread and my takeaway was the following, (I'm long out of warranty): I'm not going to spend bucks on an experimental fix since there seems to be no consensus as to what the cause is. I did like what one poster said about doing a track day and I also liked the idea of trying injector cleaner. Well, I'm not going to the track, but I can get the fuel additive and take the bike on an early morning WFO flog session on a nearby super highway.

Stats going in:
Bought the DLX new in 2014.
Nothing has ever been modified.
The bike never presented one single problem.
I've done regular oil changes.
Had the 8K done at the selling dealer 11/2016.
The bike has 8700 miles on it.
It's only ever had 87 octane in it.
Original Battery is still in use.

I didn't have high hopes of curing the high idle issue but thought I'd take a shot anyway. So, out to the highway with a full tank of gas loaded with Lucas Fuel Injector cleaner. I blew half of the tank of gas out the tail pipe cycling up to full throttle and back down. Pinning it all the way open as much as I could. Prior to this I've never opened it all the way up and never went over 90 on the bike. I did what I did to make sure that any mechanical parts involved in fuel delivery were cycled stop to stop many times so that if it's gunk causing the high idle it might be moved or removed. What do I know?

After all that, it didn't work. It was fun though.

Got back to my house after several hours of doing that. Stopped at the top of my driveway and the motor was still spinning along at 1500. Oh well.

I let it sit for three hours till the motor was just barely warm. Started it up and the Idle settled right down to where it should be. Something it hadn't done over several rides in the last week. So I decided to ride to the store and for the first half of the ride, maybe four miles, at every stop, the idle settled right down. After that, at full operating temp, right back to 1500 again.

Into the store for a half hour, back to the bike, start it up, 1050 rpms, nice, half way home, back to 1500.

I guess this is what it's going to be now.

 

[Aka Tsubasa_imp]

What a bummer. Makes me sad. Wishing you luck.

 

[dsan1964_imp]

Now yesterday perfect idle all day. Intermittent problems... going flash the ECU. In near future...


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[Aka Tsubasa_imp]

If one really wanted to start digging into this they would piggyback a voltmeter to the IAC and see if the PCM is commanding an idle change just before it happens. If the PCM calls out the change as it happens then we could at least know that it a problem with engine mangement and not mechanical.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

If one really wanted to start digging into this they would piggyback a voltmeter to the IAC and see if the PCM is commanding an idle change just before it happens. If the PCM calls out the change as it happens then we could at least know that it a problem with engine mangement and not mechanical.

What if the pcm sends voltage, and the mechanical part doesn't respond as it should....

 

[Aka Tsubasa_imp]

If one really wanted to start digging into this they would piggyback a voltmeter to the IAC and see if the PCM is commanding an idle change just before it happens. If the PCM calls out the change as it happens then we could at least know that it a problem with engine mangement and not mechanical.

What if the pcm sends voltage, and the mechanical part doesn't respond as it should....

What if the pcm sends voltage, and the mechanical part doesn't respond as it should....
One could perform a resistance check on the IAC but without having a voltage to idle speed table (assuming no other engine operating defects) there is no real way I know to verify proper IAC operation. I believe some fancy automoblies have IAC's that have position monitors but don't quote me on that.
Upon further thought if you see a voltage change and no idle speed change, replacement seems warranted.

 

[rustyski_imp]

I just experienced the engine die on my new to me 2014 DLX, cruising at 70 ish mph and the engine died.... I saw the check engine light. I started it with the switch on and off with speed going down and changing lanes (meeting guys at I 90 des plaines rest area) I held clutch and cruised it died again.
My post below before doing a 33 page back read lol

My post on a F B "Just got back from a 300 mi ride. I experienced a sudden engine cut off while cruising at 70 ish mph. I read on the CB 1100 forum about this issue. Has anyone encountered this issue? It did twice on me. The second one I did on purpose. Let me know. Thanks in advance. C.Thoughts. — in Chicago, Illinois.

 

[Cormanus]

I don't think we've ever heard this one rustyski. Mine died once at around 100kph, but it was because I'd inadvertently hit the kill switch.

You may have a fault in the kill switch.

 

[flynrider]

Rustyski,

This thread is about a problem with idle speed, both too low and too high. The problem you describe sounds like something else entirely.

The check engine light coming on should be a good place to start. I'm not an expert on Honda's ECU, but whatever caused the abrupt power loss at 70 mph and the check engine light, should be recorded in the memory. I think I'd start at the dealer with this one.

 

[rustyski_imp]

Rustyski,

This thread is about a problem with idle speed, both too low and too high. The problem you describe sounds like something else entirely.

The check engine light coming on should be a good place to start. I'm not an expert on Honda's ECU, but whatever caused the abrupt power loss at 70 mph and the check engine light, should be recorded in the memory. I think I'd start at the dealer with this one.

Yep. I just experienced the idle issue '14 DLX on the first light off exit ramp. And then twice on a stop sign before my house. Barely feel the jerky motion and then just pfft dies. I swear it's not the kill switch this time.

Lol


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[MM300_imp]

Probably Speaking too soon here but I'm gonna post it anyway.

I decided to try the throttle twisting reset this afternoon.

Key on, gauges cycle, then kill switch on, wait for under tank sounds to cease, three slow throttle twists from zero to full. Kill switch to off position, key to off position.

Key on, gauges, kill switch, sounds done, start.

I then warm the bike up until the idle settles to normal and go for a ten mile around town stop and go ride in today's 90F heat. Much farther and longer that it takes to reach full operating temperature. At each stop the idle settled right down to spec.

So there's at least something to this throttle reset.

Do I think my bike is cured/fixed? No.

Do I think the high idle will return? Likely

I'm going to continue to ride it. I still love the bike even if I've lost some confidence in it. I'll post back in this thread if and when the idle goes wacky again whether its tomorrow or next year.

I believe that this is going to be an issue for every CB owner until Honda figures it out and provides us with a real fix.

 

[Riko_imp]

Probably Speaking too soon here but I'm gonna post it anyway.

I decided to try the throttle twisting reset this afternoon.

Key on, gauges cycle, then kill switch on, wait for under tank sounds to cease, three slow throttle twists from zero to full. Kill switch to off position, key to off position.

Key on, gauges, kill switch, sounds done, start.

I then warm the bike up until the idle settles to normal and go for a ten mile around town stop and go ride in today's 90F heat. Much farther and longer that it takes to reach full operating temperature. At each stop the idle settled right down to spec.

So there's at least something to this throttle reset.

Do I think my bike is cured/fixed? No.

Do I think the high idle will return? Likely

I'm going to continue to ride it. I still love the bike even if I've lost some confidence in it. I'll post back in this thread if and when the idle goes wacky again whether its tomorrow or next year.

I believe that this is going to be an issue for every CB owner until Honda figures it out and provides us with a real fix.

:dodgy:

What a statement, based on what? Your believe...?
Bold, especially since we (incl. Honda) simply don't know cuss.

We don't know if its market specific (US/Europe/Asia)
.....if its model specific (EX/DLX/Std/new model)
.....if it are certain batches
.....if its only certain build years
......what/if its triggered by something

Etc..

So we don't even know the root cause.
Let alone do we know how to fix the issue.
What issue? Because ever since my last post I've been lurking nere and reading all kinds of things, a mix of 'issues'.
Only high idle
Only low idle
High + low idle
Low idle + stalling
High + low idle + stalling

The most important question to me other than whats the cause + solution is, how many of the total amount of CB1100's sold are affected with real low idle/stalling problems.

Again, we know nothing and every so called cause and solution here is pure speculation.
The fact the dealer replaced my whole throttle body says a lot, they simply don't know diddly-squat.

So, making a statement like that is very far fetched tbh.
I'd rather believe that the majority of CB owners won't and never will have this issue than stating the above.

 

[Wisedrum]

Since the mids of the last year my CB is a concerned one. In the beginning of this lets call it a mailfunction in idleing, it idles too high, the problem has hardly disappeared.

I try out different things like the throttle calibration and disconnecting the battery, stuff like that. As long as this phanomenon exists, it somehow seems to have partially cured itself to the point, where it seldom ocurres anymore. And then suddenly it's back again.

Honda doesn't seem to have an idea, although their unknowdlege looks strange being the world greatest motor builder in the world. I'm wether a technician nor an engineer. I'm just a simple customer with a somehow basic understanding of motorcycle princeples. No more, no less. I try to find out, without spending money in doubtful solutions, what could be the reasons for the idle thing. Try to find relations like driving in stop and go, cold and warm weather, riding full throttle and mostly not. But nothing seems be a right answer to the question why.
It's even mysterious, because my W800, also a FI controlled motorbike having run some more km than the CB, behaves quite normal with its idle under all conditions. So, a motorbike is able to do it, which should be normal. Okay, they are different ones.

As a result of my life with the Honda over some years, I try not to bother too much about its behavior as long as it functions well. This time it has a phase of well idleing. I enjoy it and take the other side as a part of the machine's character, which sometimes shows up again.

Maybe someday someone comes up with an affordable solution or even a trustable explanation for it. Maybe.
And then I'll be wiser and glad.

Wisedrum

 

[MM300_imp]

Probably Speaking too soon here but I'm gonna post it anyway.

I decided to try the throttle twisting reset this afternoon.

Key on, gauges cycle, then kill switch on, wait for under tank sounds to cease, three slow throttle twists from zero to full. Kill switch to off position, key to off position.

Key on, gauges, kill switch, sounds done, start.

I then warm the bike up until the idle settles to normal and go for a ten mile around town stop and go ride in today's 90F heat. Much farther and longer that it takes to reach full operating temperature. At each stop the idle settled right down to spec.

So there's at least something to this throttle reset.

Do I think my bike is cured/fixed? No.

Do I think the high idle will return? Likely

I'm going to continue to ride it. I still love the bike even if I've lost some confidence in it. I'll post back in this thread if and when the idle goes wacky again whether its tomorrow or next year.

I believe that this is going to be an issue for every CB owner until Honda figures it out and provides us with a real fix.

:dodgy:

What a statement, based on what? Your believe...?
Bold, especially since we (incl. Honda) simply don't know cuss.

We don't know if its market specific (US/Europe/Asia)
.....if its model specific (EX/DLX/Std/new model)
.....if it are certain batches
.....if its only certain build years
......what/if its triggered by something

Etc..

So we don't even know the root cause.
Let alone do we know how to fix the issue.
What issue? Because ever since my last post I've been lurking nere and reading all kinds of things, a mix of 'issues'.
Only high idle
Only low idle
High + low idle
Low idle + stalling
High + low idle + stalling

The most important question to me other than whats the cause + solution is, how many of the total amount of CB1100's sold are affected with real low idle/stalling problems.

Again, we know nothing and every so called cause and solution here is pure speculation.
The fact the dealer replaced my whole throttle body says a lot, they simply don't know diddly-squat.

So, making a statement like that is very far fetched tbh.
I'd rather believe that the majority of CB owners won't and never will have this issue than stating the above.

:dodgy:

What a statement, based on what? Your believe...?
Bold, especially since we (incl. Honda) simply don't know cuss.
So it shouldn't be concerning to all CB owners that Honda has put out a bike, some of which have an issue that they themselves cannot explain and the 'fix' costs $2500.00 to $3000.00?

My well maintained bike has been on the road for over three years and all of a sudden this happens?

I think you answered your own question.

You got yours fixed under warranty right?

Are you sure that the new parts that were installed won't go the same way your originals did? I hope they'll be fine for you, but I'm skeptical. And since Honda cannot, or will not, supply us with an actual cause and a solid real solution it puts a bit of a cloud over the bike as it's a known issue.

Sure, not all the CB's will be afflicted so don't take it personal man. I want everybody to have a perfectly functioning bike that also has a great reputation around the world.

My opinion, this can effect the value of the bike which should be concerning for every CB owner.

 

[Sandhog_imp]

The high-idle problem with my 2013 ABS bike was resolved when the EOT Sensor was replaced. On my bike once the high-idle problem started it didn't stop, it was never intermittent, the engine ran at 1500 hot or cold. The Honda dealership that did the service (bike is under warranty) had seen and corrected the problem with at least one other CB1100. I'm not suggesting anyone go replace their EOT sensor, there seems to be more than one kind of high-idle problem.

Unfortunately the bike still has the occasional low-idle. None of the dealerships I've brought the bike to have been able to make progress with the low-idle issue mainly because they haven't been able replicate the issue, I really need to get back down to the dealership and show them how it's done.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

EFI on motorcycles is in it's relative infancy compared to cars.

It is also nowhere near as advanced as far as diagnostics.

I'll also go out on a limb and say the average guy turning wrenches at a bike shop is not as knowledgeable and skilled as a car guy is- and that is pretty bad since I won't bring any of my cars to a dealer.

Idle issues can be all sorts of causes- all unrelated to each other. As already noted- vacuum issues, sensor issues, dirty tb bore, etc.. blindly throwing parts at it with no reason is unlikely to solve anything.

The worst thing is that most everything can be tested for spec, ohm a sensor, check tb angle, etc- but that takes both time and knowledge- the dealer has little of both to spare on fixing a bike that they couldn't even sell off the floor in the first place...

 

[the Ferret]

I dont know that "everyone" is going to have the problem. But it is surely a possibility that some will have it .... and I hope I never have it. Unfortunately we don't know the true scope of the problem, what causes it, what cures it, how many are affected.

I think it similar to BMW final drive failures in that some fail, but the vast majority of Beemers run just fine. I've read 5% failure, which means 95% NOT failing. The question is, if you buy one, are you unlucky enough to get one of those that fail? Same with the CB.

RIko if you knew the problems that my son has had with a Ducati Monster he bought brand new, or the problems my Doctor had with a Multistrada he bought brand new ( he's riding a KTM now) you would most likely not have bought the Multi and might have missed out on a possibly great bike.

ALL motorcycle brands have warranties and all have service departments for a reason.

 

[Riko_imp]

Probably Speaking too soon here but I'm gonna post it anyway.

I decided to try the throttle twisting reset this afternoon.

Key on, gauges cycle, then kill switch on, wait for under tank sounds to cease, three slow throttle twists from zero to full. Kill switch to off position, key to off position.

Key on, gauges, kill switch, sounds done, start.

I then warm the bike up until the idle settles to normal and go for a ten mile around town stop and go ride in today's 90F heat. Much farther and longer that it takes to reach full operating temperature. At each stop the idle settled right down to spec.

So there's at least something to this throttle reset.

Do I think my bike is cured/fixed? No.

Do I think the high idle will return? Likely

I'm going to continue to ride it. I still love the bike even if I've lost some confidence in it. I'll post back in this thread if and when the idle goes wacky again whether its tomorrow or next year.

I believe that this is going to be an issue for every CB owner until Honda figures it out and provides us with a real fix.

:dodgy:

What a statement, based on what? Your believe...?
Bold, especially since we (incl. Honda) simply don't know cuss.

We don't know if its market specific (US/Europe/Asia)
.....if its model specific (EX/DLX/Std/new model)
.....if it are certain batches
.....if its only certain build years
......what/if its triggered by something

Etc..

So we don't even know the root cause.
Let alone do we know how to fix the issue.
What issue? Because ever since my last post I've been lurking nere and reading all kinds of things, a mix of 'issues'.
Only high idle
Only low idle
High + low idle
Low idle + stalling
High + low idle + stalling

The most important question to me other than whats the cause + solution is, how many of the total amount of CB1100's sold are affected with real low idle/stalling problems.

Again, we know nothing and every so called cause and solution here is pure speculation.
The fact the dealer replaced my whole throttle body says a lot, they simply don't know diddly-squat.

So, making a statement like that is very far fetched tbh.
I'd rather believe that the majority of CB owners won't and never will have this issue than stating the above.

:dodgy:

What a statement, based on what? Your believe...?
Bold, especially since we (incl. Honda) simply don't know cuss.
So it shouldn't be concerning to all CB owners that Honda has put out a bike, some of which have an issue that they themselves cannot explain and the 'fix' costs $2500.00 to $3000.00?

My well maintained bike has been on the road for over three years and all of a sudden this happens?

I think you answered your own question.

You got yours fixed under warranty right?

Are you sure that the new parts that were installed won't go the same way your originals did? I hope they'll be fine for you, but I'm skeptical. And since Honda cannot, or will not, supply us with an actual cause and a solid real solution it puts a bit of a cloud over the bike as it's a known issue.

Sure, not all the CB's will be afflicted so don't take it personal man. I want everybody to have a perfectly functioning bike that also has a great reputation around the world.

My opinion, this can effect the value of the bike which should be concerning for every CB owner.

:dodgy:

What a statement, based on what? Your believe...?
Bold, especially since we (incl. Honda) simply don't know cuss.
So it shouldn't be concerning to all CB owners that Honda has put out a bike, some of which have an issue that they themselves cannot explain and the 'fix' costs $2500.00 to $3000.00?

My well maintained bike has been on the road for over three years and all of a sudden this happens?

I think you answered your own question.

You got yours fixed under warranty right?

Are you sure that the new parts that were installed won't go the same way your originals did? I hope they'll be fine for you, but I'm skeptical. And since Honda cannot, or will not, supply us with an actual cause and a solid real solution it puts a bit of a cloud over the bike as it's a known issue.

Sure, not all the CB's will be afflicted so don't take it personal man. I want everybody to have a perfectly functioning bike that also has a great reputation around the world.

My opinion, this can effect the value of the bike which should be concerning for every CB owner.
We need to know, asap, how many CB's are sold worldwide and how many of those got affected.

Anybody has contacts in Japan at the Honda factory over there?

The VFR line got the drive shaft recalled.
Goldwings got recalled for their airbags recently.
BMW recently got their GS LC recalled for a major safety issue.
Ducati regulary recalls their bikes for the smallest things.
Etc.

Surely, a company that stands behind its products such as Honda would have seen the worldwide alerts concerning this issue?

When I brought inmy bike the dealer folowed the official way, so Honda knows.
Seeing on fb and a German, a French and a UK board of ppl having the same issue, I hope they also alerted there dealers.
If its that massive as I lerceived, Honda knows.

But since nothing is known and heard and Honda hasn't organized a recall, I can only assume my perception was wrong to think this is widely spread.

I dunno, maybe the sum of all those ppl on those boards are still minor for Honda to see.
Also, how many actually went official by going pass their dealers?

Besides this thread, I haven't seen any new issues on the Asian FB groups, wich had the most stalling cases (EX models like my European EX)


I hope I'm wrong and its as widespread as the activity on this board perceives it to be so that Honda must deal with it and fixes all those bikes.
But as of now, I guess: to be continued...

The high-idle problem with my 2013 ABS bike was resolved when the EOT Sensor was replaced. On my bike once the high-idle problem started it didn't stop, it was never intermittent, the engine ran at 1500 hot or cold. The Honda dealership that did the service (bike is under warranty) had seen and corrected the problem with at least one other CB1100. I'm not suggesting anyone go replace their EOT sensor, there seems to be more than one kind of high-idle problem.

Unfortunately the bike still has the occasional low-idle. None of the dealerships I've brought the bike to have been able to make progress with the low-idle issue mainly because they haven't been able replicate the issue, I really need to get back down to the dealership and show them how it's done.

if its like here on mine, why not show that to the dealers?

I dont know that "everyone" is going to have the problem. But it is surely a possibility that some will have it .... and I hope I never have it. Unfortunately we don't know the true scope of the problem, what causes it, what cures it, how many are affected.

I think it similar to BMW final drive failures in that some fail, but the vast majority of Beemers run just fine. I've read 5% failure, which means 95% NOT failing. The question is, if you buy one, are you unlucky enough to get one of those that fail? Same with the CB.

RIko if you knew the problems that my son has had with a Ducati Monster he bought brand new, or the problems my Doctor had with a Multistrada he bought brand new ( he's riding a KTM now) you would most likely not have bought the Multi and might have missed out on a possibly great bike.

ALL motorcycle brands have warranties and all have service departments for a reason.

is that the big guy of wich you recently posted some pics on your facebook?

I thought you parted from of your CB?...