CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[Lord Popgun]

You might try the TPS reset. Here is a link. Read the post and at least a few posts down too. Seems to work for some people, somewhat at least.

There are also more thread on this problem. You might search around for them if you haven't already.

 

[ericlo69_imp]

Update:
Here in Taiwan, recently HONDA released new (revised) ECU program to solve CB1100 idle speed problem; some owners start to send their bikes to dealer side for new ECU program uploading. (BUT there is not RECALL from HONDA Taiwan dealers). One owner mentioned that his bike (EX model, Throttle body assy has been replaced before because of idle speed unstable) is getting smoother and more powerful after uploading.
Just for your reference, and I will keep it updated.

This owner just said that idle speed problem happened again after new ECU program upload, it seems THIS "new" ECU program is not the right one for problem solving!?
BTW, another owner (14' EX model, this case has been mentioned in my previous posts #31,84) suffered this problem seriously for a long time; few weeks ago HONDA technician replaced the whole ECU (not cheap). he said: improve significantly & so far so good, but need to keep testing.

 

[beardyweirdy@me.com_imp]

Thanks Ericlo69,
Interesting to hear. I'm curious as to what the ECU upload is actually changing?

I've had the ECU software uploaded and I have to say, It's been better since.
I've ridden it in exactly the same conditions, in the same way, as I did previously when it would throw up the problem and it's been as good as gold.

If the problem returns to my bike I'll post it up, straight away...

On the forum your quoting from, is it just '14 EX models that are effected?

 

[JustCruising_imp]

Thanks Ericlo69,
Interesting to hear. I'm curious as to what the ECU upload is actually changing?

I've had the ECU software uploaded and I have to say, It's been better since.
I've ridden it in exactly the same conditions, in the same way, as I did previously when it would throw up the problem and it's been as good as gold.

If the problem returns to my bike I'll post it up, straight away...

On the forum your quoting from, is it just '14 EX models that are effected?

Hi beardyweirdy

I think I read earlier in this or a similar thread that you spoke with Honda UK directly regarding this. Did you get a name of the person you spoke with by any chance ? My bike is off for it's first service soon and I'd like to pre advise my dealership with as much info as I can (although not suffered any of these idle problems to date).

Cheers

 

[ericlo69_imp]

Thanks Ericlo69,
Interesting to hear. I'm curious as to what the ECU upload is actually changing?

I've had the ECU software uploaded and I have to say, It's been better since.
I've ridden it in exactly the same conditions, in the same way, as I did previously when it would throw up the problem and it's been as good as gold.

If the problem returns to my bike I'll post it up, straight away...

On the forum your quoting from, is it just '14 EX models that are effected?

Mostly 14'~15' EX model.

 

[dave]

Here is my latest update concerning my letter to Honda (sorry for the delay, I've been busy). Finally talked to a Honda representative two weeks ago, in response to the certified letter I sent them; I am extremely disappointed in their response. It sounded like I was talking to some third-party representative of Honda because of the answer I received, and this answer was repeated back to me at least five or six times during our conversation. This answer was "We have no knowledge of any recalls or service bulletins applicable to this motorcycle". We talked for at least ten minutes, and every time I asked why Honda was unable to repair my motorcycle I got the same answer. When I asked why this repair was being offered in the UK, I got this answer. When I asked why Honda was offering this repair in Taiwan, I got this answer. When I explained how many owners in the States are experiencing the same problems that owners in the UK and Taiwan are experiencing I got the same answer. I included the address of this forum in my letter to Honda, along with a couple of snapshots of member's comments, and the representative informed me that she had visited this forum and read the postings. I asked if the repairs that were applied in the UK and Taiwan could be applied to my bike I was told that due to California emissions regulations a repair authorized for the UK or Taiwan could not "legally" be performed here, followed by their standard answer above. I tried to reason with the Honda representative by explaining that I, and other owners in the States are having an identical problem, which would indicate a (fairly) widespread problem, and I received the same, standard answer above. I don't know what it will take for Honda to acknowledge a manufacturing defect exists on these bikes in the States, and to repair it, but I informed the Honda representative that I would pursue legal action under my Lemon Law rights, if I have to. Maybe if enough of us with the same problem all contact American Honda then we can convince them to take action? As I stated above, it was almost like I wasn't talking to a Honda representative because the answers I was receiving were meaningless, almost like when you're connected to somebody from India when you call to make a complaint about your credit card billing. I am supplying the contact information at Honda below. Any of you guys experiencing the high/low/stalling problems, I urge you to call this number and let them know.
Kelly (at Honda).
866-784-1870 extension 13810.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Paragraphs. They're a thing.

I don't understand the California emissions thing. Aren't the Euro standards just as strict?

 

[flynrider]

Paragraphs. They're a thing.

I don't understand the California emissions thing. Aren't the Euro standards just as strict?

Current Euro4 standards for tailpipe emissions are more strict than current CARB and US EPA standards. I think the problem lies in that the various regulatory bodies each have their own sets of requirements (beyond tailpipe emissions) that they require manufacturers to meet. These often involve slightly different equipment and ECU programming from region to region.

While it may make little practical difference, installing ECU programming from another region would probably violate rules under which the bikes were originally certified.

 

[ClassicVW_imp]

Paragraphs. They're a thing.

I don't understand the California emissions thing. Aren't the Euro standards just as strict?

I didn't have any problem following along. You should be thanking him for his efforts rather than giving him a writing critique.

 

[johnf514_imp]

Gone for two weeks on honeymoon and this thread has updated significantly.

Magnus, thanks for all the hard work and details on the tear down. Did you reset the ECU after replacing the IACV?

Dave, sorry to hear about Honda's response. It does sound like you're working with a third party. Any chance you can get the bike to dealer (if you didn't already)? Are you still under warranty? I'll call Kelly and leave my experience with her.

 

[the Ferret]

Honeymoon? Congrats John!

 

[dave]

Gone for two weeks on honeymoon and this thread has updated significantly.

Magnus, thanks for all the hard work and details on the tear down. Did you reset the ECU after replacing the IACV?

Dave, sorry to hear about Honda's response. It does sound like you're working with a third party. Any chance you can get the bike to dealer (if you didn't already)? Are you still under warranty? I'll call Kelly and leave my experience with her.

Thanks John, and congratulations! Replacing the IACV on your bike worked, but when Magnus did the same it did not cure the problem. I was actually going to replace my IACV (even though I didn't think this would work but I was willing to try almost anything), but because of Magnus's results I will not pursue this option. Maybe Magnus could contact Honda? My bike is out of warranty. I had my bike inspected by the dealer three different times shortly after purchasing it for a different problem, that I ended up repairing myself with the TPS reset. I have talked to my Honda dealer twice on this topic, getting the exact same answer that I received in my previous post. I have gotten to the point where I am not enjoying riding this bike. If I spend time riding at slow, stop & go speeds it will either go into the low idle/stall phase, or it will go into the high (1,500 RPM) phase. Best wishes to the newlyweds!

 

[johnf514_imp]

Thank you all for the best wishes. Pretty lucky guy, I got the better end of that deal.

I completely understand not enjoying the bike with the high idle condition. For reference, my IACV was replaced and repaired by Central Florida Powersports service dept, working with Jimmy Le, between 11/4-11/8/2016. If you'd like to reference that with any rep you speak with, they can refer to what the Honda tech discovered on my bike for your issue.

Not to assume the problems are the same, but perhaps if they follow the same diagnostic procedure, we can get an answer.

I appreciate that this might not be a fiscally viable option. In that case, maybe pull the EOT sensor and see if that works? I empathize with you Dave, it is a pain in the rear tire.

 

[Hatred66_imp]

Hi fellow riders,

After a few months following this thread I've decided to come out of the closet as another CB owner that suffers the unstable idle speed issue. I own a 2014 Std Black, and I am in love with the bike... except for this. Sometimes, specially when it's hot, the bike feels like it's about to die when I'm stopped in a traffic light or stop sign. It gets as low as 500 RPM (literally at that point I don't even feel the engine running). After a few seconds, the idling goes back to 1000 RPM (where it was every single ride for the first year, before this problem started). Other times, for no reason and usually after putting gas or start the bike, the idling gets to 1500 RPM, which almost feels like I am slightly on the throttle non stop. At those 1500 RPM the bike feels over its normal revs, switching gears is not as smooth, there's some pulling while cruising, and probably the gas mileage is lower.

As far as I read there's still not one official diagnosis and fix for this issue, only different attempts with different results done by other riders, dealers or mechanics. So, at this point, where the heck is Honda when a bunch of customers are reporting a malfunction in several bikes that are in good shape? How is it possible that nobody working on the bike including Honda dealers have found the reason that causes this?

Sorry for venting but I am so frustrated!!!! I can't believe I don't rely on a consistent ride I only enjoyed for 1 year after spending 10 grand. I love this bike and I always trusted Japanese quality, but for what I expected from the most classic Honda bike, this has been a bummer so far.

I have to do my 8.000 miles check in a few days, so I'll let you guys know if I get any luck from my Honda dealer. Thanks everyone trying to figure this out! at least I'm not the only one...

 

[Riko_imp]

When you are at @500 rpm, if blip the throttle, does it actually die??

 

[Sandhog_imp]

I too am having problems with my bike which is a 2013 ABS model, the low-idle problem occurs whenever I'm riding for 15-20 minutes in heavy stop and go traffic. I've called Honda twice now on the issue and they don't appear aware of the problem. I had one dealer in New Jersey check the bike and they couldn't replicate the issue or find anything wrong, a second dealer I spoke with was not aware of any engine idle issues, a third dealer is looking at the bike now, I hope to hear back from them later this week and will post a follow up. Thanks.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Sandhog, they know. Read Dave's post above: CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

Good luck with the 3rd dealer, but I wouldn't expect much. Unless its a hard failure, we seem to be on our own in the US. Mine is OK, but I have been following this since it was first reported here and would like to see a resolution.

 

[johnf514_imp]

Just a quick note for the newcomers to this thread. While I am only one case, I also had low RPM idle issues and stalling when driving in heavy stop n go traffic, and I had the high idle condition, which was temporarily resolved twice with ECU resets. The third time, the dealership replaced the IACV under warranty, and the bike has not exhibited low/high idle RPM conditions since.

I appreciate that I am only one case, just wanted to summarize and share.

 

[Ben70_imp]

From my experience in the automotive world, it was (and is), common for some multi-port fuel injected vehicles to be plagued with a carbon sludge deposit that forms around the throttle plate. This would cause uneven or low idle, sometimes dying, and a hesitation on acceleration in some cases.
I am pretty sure that this would usually only happen with an average higher mileage than most of us have on our bikes.
The fix was to open the throttle and clean around the bore where the throttle closes, and the back (inner) side of the throttle plate. The most sparkly clean results come from pulling the throttle body for thorough cleaning, but i had good luck with a toothbrush and some Berryman's Chemtool.
If I were plagued with this issue, I would try to access the throttle bores so I could assess the possible accumulation by opening the throttle and wiping a q-tip around the area where the throttle plate closes, if it comes out clean, that's not the problem.

Ben

 

[Hatred66_imp]

When you are at @500 rpm, if blip the throttle, does it actually die??

Hey Riko,

Mine has never died while I'm stopped, although sometimes I literally felt like the engine was off due to total lack of sound/vibration. Usually after some seconds in that 500 RPM quiet idling, the bike goes back to 1000 RPM where it behaves "normal". The problem is that sometimes the light goes green and you don't have that extra time. In those cases the bike doesn't take off as easily since I have to apply extra throttle to compensate the low idling. If I don't do so the bike will die (again, due to starting on 1st gear with lower RPM than normal). Annoying and weird!
With the high idling, there is no variation. If the ride starts at 1500 RPM and never goes down to 1000 RPM, it will stay like that the entire ride, regardless of full stops, highway, temperature, etc.

All this is what makes the bike unpredictable...