CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[Riko_imp]

Naah, ignition on/off doesn't solve it, you gotta use the kills switch and the bikes idle transform from cuss to how its supposed to act...

What also seems to help is doing the TPS reset (ignition on but don't start the engine, apply full throttle than throttle to zero position, repeat this twice, ignition off) but this takes too long so I rather use the kill switch, especially when I'm in city traffic.
Can you see me standing there in the traffic jam doing the TPS reset procedure

Yeah, I shared the video on all 4 major CB1100 facebook pages.
And on all major CB1100 forums on the net (this one, UK one, French one)
Not the German one yet, too difficult language and too lazy to use Google Translate.
And on the ADV forum they also have a dedicated CB1100 forum:
2013 + Honda CB1100

Some mechanics i spoke with strongly follow the hypothesis its bad lambda sensors.

That could explain the issue.
Giving wrong info to the ecu causing it to idle low.
Doing this only after its on temperature, so not immediately.
Using the killswitch resets the values send from the sensor.
No error codes on the ECU.

Thinking about perhaps going the O2 eliminator way....

But later today I'll to disconnect the battery since that solved the issue for someone according to my taiwanese facebook connections..i doubt this is true, but I can only exclude that option by trying.

Most EFI systems run idle and WOT in open loop mode, and only use O2 sensors for part throttle mixture control. It's possible the CB is different, but I would be surprised if it was the oxygen sensor causing this problem.

Most EFI systems run idle and WOT in open loop mode, and only use O2 sensors for part throttle mixture control. It's possible the CB is different, but I would be surprised if it was the oxygen sensor causing this problem.
isn't there a difference with the STD and the dual exhaust cb's?

the EX has 2 sensors and both have the identical same function?

I am not technically skilled but I will copy paste the text from a mechanic that helped me in the past and he said some stuff about those lambda sensors and why this could be reason.

He also said something about an open or closed loop mode.

Will be continued.

 

[Riko_imp]

Some mechanics i spoke with strongly follow the hypothesis its bad lambda sensors.

That could explain the issue.
Giving wrong info to the ecu causing it to idle low.
Doing this only after its on temperature, so not immediately.
Using the killswitch resets the values send from the sensor.
No error codes on the ECU.

Thinking about perhaps going the O2 eliminator way....

But later today I'll to disconnect the battery since that solved the issue for someone according to my taiwanese facebook connections..i doubt this is true, but I can only exclude that option by trying.

Most EFI systems run idle and WOT in open loop mode, and only use O2 sensors for part throttle mixture control. It's possible the CB is different, but I would be surprised if it was the oxygen sensor causing this problem.

Naah, ignition on/off doesn't solve it, you gotta use the kills switch and the bikes idle transform from cuss to how its supposed to act...

What also seems to help is doing the TPS reset (ignition on but don't start the engine, apply full throttle than throttle to zero position, repeat this twice, ignition off) but this takes too long so I rather use the kill switch, especially when I'm in city traffic.
Can you see me standing there in the traffic jam doing the TPS reset procedure

Yeah, I shared the video on all 4 major CB1100 facebook pages.
And on all major CB1100 forums on the net (this one, UK one, French one)
Not the German one yet, too difficult language and too lazy to use Google Translate.
And on the ADV forum they also have a dedicated CB1100 forum:
2013 + Honda CB1100

Some mechanics i spoke with strongly follow the hypothesis its bad lambda sensors.

That could explain the issue.
Giving wrong info to the ecu causing it to idle low.
Doing this only after its on temperature, so not immediately.
Using the killswitch resets the values send from the sensor.
No error codes on the ECU.

Thinking about perhaps going the O2 eliminator way....

But later today I'll to disconnect the battery since that solved the issue for someone according to my taiwanese facebook connections..i doubt this is true, but I can only exclude that option by trying.

Most EFI systems run idle and WOT in open loop mode, and only use O2 sensors for part throttle mixture control. It's possible the CB is different, but I would be surprised if it was the oxygen sensor causing this problem.

Most EFI systems run idle and WOT in open loop mode, and only use O2 sensors for part throttle mixture control. It's possible the CB is different, but I would be surprised if it was the oxygen sensor causing this problem.
isn't there a difference with the STD and the dual exhaust cb's?

the EX has 2 sensors and both have the identical same function?

I am not technically skilled but I will copy paste the text from a mechanic that helped me in the past and he said some stuff about those lambda sensors and why this could be reason.

He also said something about an open or closed loop mode.

Will be continued.

de eerste 15 minuten zullen de lambdasonden geen invloed hebben
want dan zijn ze niet warm
dan draait de ECU niet in closed loop
dat wil zeggen, dat hij zijn inspuiting aanpast aan de waarden van zijn lambda sonde
dan gaat hij enkel naar het kenveld kijken.

translated he does say more or less the same as you say:

the first 15 minutes, the lambda sensors will have no effect because then they are not warm

the ECU is not running in a closed loop

this means, it adapts the injection to the values of lambda probe
then he will only look at the diagram

 

[LARIDER_imp]

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

 

[DJS_imp]

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.

 

[LARIDER_imp]

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.

 

[Riko_imp]

a little update.

So, I disconnected the battery and than reconnected it, but I cannot make conclusions yet.

I rode for about 1 hour in the city, however it was late in the evening so there was virtually no traffic and it is also cold outside, like 11° C...the idle issue seems to be sensitive for warm weather and heavy stop and go riding...

Although I had no problems during my ride after I reconnected the battery I will wait for final conclusions after a ride in warmer weather, and if I encounter no issues, than I would think reconnecting the battery is indeed a solution for this issue...but for now its too early to say.

Unfortunately the weather will be cold the coming days here, so I will have to be patient.

Its not the first time I heard that reconnecting a battery can solve some electronical issues (wich is the case with mine).
I heard stories like that about BMW cars that stall and after reconnecing batteries the issues seem to be gone.

Anyhow, I'll keep you all posted how the bike holds up.

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.

it seems that this was not the right solution than...

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.
did you notice, like the rest of us with this issue, that the problem manifests itself when riding in the city with lots of stop and go movement and in warmer weather? lets say 20°C and above?

if not, try to ride in those conditions only....

 

[DJS_imp]

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.
the issue with the car happened within the first 2 minutes of starting and only if coming to a stop ,(like a stop light) . the idle would just drop, no rough running. never happened after being warmed up.

it was a known issue that the EGR valve went bad and needed replacement. the manufacturer decided not to do anything about it. had the car over 10 years so yeah, a few times.

 

[Riko_imp]

okay, reconnecting the battery didnt prove to be the solution...so looking forward to the moment I bring the bike in at the dealers

 

[LARIDER_imp]

a little update.

So, I disconnected the battery and than reconnected it, but I cannot make conclusions yet.

I rode for about 1 hour in the city, however it was late in the evening so there was virtually no traffic and it is also cold outside, like 11° C...the idle issue seems to be sensitive for warm weather and heavy stop and go riding...

Although I had no problems during my ride after I reconnected the battery I will wait for final conclusions after a ride in warmer weather, and if I encounter no issues, than I would think reconnecting the battery is indeed a solution for this issue...but for now its too early to say.

Unfortunately the weather will be cold the coming days here, so I will have to be patient.

Its not the first time I heard that reconnecting a battery can solve some electronical issues (wich is the case with mine).
I heard stories like that about BMW cars that stall and after reconnecing batteries the issues seem to be gone.

Anyhow, I'll keep you all posted how the bike holds up.

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.

it seems that this was not the right solution than...

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.
did you notice, like the rest of us with this issue, that the problem manifests itself when riding in the city with lots of stop and go movement and in warmer weather? lets say 20°C and above?

if not, try to ride in those conditions only....

it seems that this was not the right solution than...

That is just plain unacceptable! I hope Honda solves the issue fast. Strange only on the EX models do far.

My 2014 standard started doing it again last night.

The idle would drop down to around 500 rpm and then slowly creep back up to around 1000 rpm. I tried the throttle reset mentioned here and that seemed to help.

I originally chalked up the last time the idle problem happened to bad gas but I've only been using tier 1 gas since then. I also add some Techron or Seafoam about once a month.

I'm going to take the bike out later today and see how it is. If it acts up again, I'm going to the dealer and insist that he check it out. My bike is still under warranty until July.

I'm just concerned as this might become a safety issue with possible nasty repercussions.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.

had a similar issue on mazda protege 5. had to replace the EGR valve a few times.
hope this helps.
Thanks for the heads up.

I just got back from a ten mile ride and the idle seemed stable. I'm still going to talk to the dealer about it.

I should also add that the bike isn't running rough when the unsteady idle happens. I suspect it might be something in the electronics dept.
did you notice, like the rest of us with this issue, that the problem manifests itself when riding in the city with lots of stop and go movement and in warmer weather? lets say 20°C and above?

if not, try to ride in those conditions only....
I do a lot of city driving mixed with some freeway riding. When the problem started again the other night, it was cool out and I was on the freeway. I have not detected any pattern in the riding conditions yet.

I watched your video and my bike doesn't stall when the idle becomes unstable. The idle drops down to 400-500 rpm and then slowly climbs back up.

 

[Riko_imp]

that is indeed very low...what happens at the moment the needle is on 400-500rpm if you rev the engine

very important to rev it at that low rpm...

in my case, that would be the moment the engine would drop furter to stall...



I will try one last thing, disconnect the battery overnight....it seems that ECU's tend to recalibrate themselves when the battery is disconnected for a long time...

 

[Riko_imp]

wanna hear something funny?

I rode more than 200km today, in all conditions and in the second half, including city riding, the low rpm issues did not occur, not even a slightest hint!

but thats not the funny bit

the funny thing is that the abnormality is in the opposite dirction, though not extreme.
Only when applying light throttle from idle, 500rpm maximum, the needle goes back to idle but a tad too slow, slow enough to notice, as if the throttle cable is stuck some how in the return movement, WICH IS NOT THE CASE, the cable is perfect and moving freely.

Though this is not how the bike should act as well, I'd rather have it react this way than what happened first when stalling was a possibilty..

What a strange bike I have

I wonder if this is temporary or a 'new evolution' of my issue.

T minus 14 days untill the bike will be brought to the dealers..

 

[scooticus_imp]

i have the same issue and i have tried a list of things listed as follows. Some might make sense but some don't. it's a hard and sometimes frustrating problem in which only happens when you're in a heavy traffic city ride and not when touring. here is what i have tested and i am now pretty set that the issue is not what it seems to be.

1. change the o2 sensors from original pair to a new pair = same issue
2. changed from o2 sensors to o2 eliminators = same issue
3. changed from aftermarket pipes back to original pipes = same issue
4. oil change from 10-40w / 5-30W / 5-40w and fresh k&n oil and intake filters = same issue

the only solution that seems to work is that you will need to loosen the throttle to give it more " freeplay " and while it does not sound logical to some. instead of instant throttle response upon twisted, some free play on the throttle somewhat solves the issue. it seems to be working for me as it has been a week or se it has yet to set on low rpm and stall. this observation is accurate as i commute to work on the bike daily, constantly faced with heavy traffic situations and weather in malaysia is an average of 36-37 C on average in the afternoon. The only issue now is upon trying all sort of methods and tricks, i seem to have damaged the throttle cable to slightly expose the cables and replacement orders from webike is on it's way from japan. so far so good. let me know if you have tried it and if it works for you as well.

 

[Riko_imp]

I will share this valuable information to my dealer!

Thx a lot man!
However. There is a minimal amount of freeplay...the throttle play has to be within certain limits

 

[Lord Popgun]

scooticus, throttle free play is specified as 1/16 to 1/4 inch, or 2-6mm.

What was it before and after you adjusted it? How to adjust it is in this How-To thread: How To do your own 600 mile service

 

[Lord Popgun]

Check out this post: Idle problem resolved

 

[dave]

My 2014 Dlx has acted exactly the same as shown in the video on three different occasions now. All three when riding around town at very low speeds, and less than 2,500 RPM. I brought this topic up on this forum a few months ago but it never got any attention. Each time, after stalling a few times, I able to keep it running with very careful and gentle application of the throttle; after the RPM exceeded about 2,000 it resumed running "normal". Each time the bike ran as if nothing happened the next day after parking it in the garage overnight. This condition happened a fourth time yesterday when subjected to the same riding conditions (slow, around town, low RPM). After blipping the throttle to keep it running at several stop lights I pulled over to the curb to see if I could do anything. I just let it idle while in neutral, thinking it would stall any second, but to my surprise it ran for about 5 seconds at 500 RPM, then it slowly worked its way back up to a normal, 1,100 RPM idle and it ran perfectly fine the rest of the day! Go figure! I am anxious to hear when Honda officially finds the root cause of this problem because it's obviously not a one-off situation now.

 

[Riko_imp]

Tomorrow is a important day for my dreambike, finally I'll hand her over to the dealers for inspection for a week or so...

I'm curious to see what my replacement bike will be.
Meanwhile...I will be drooling over this since they just got them in, the MT-10 :blush:

 

[ericlo69_imp]

Tomorrow is a important day for my dreambike, finally I'll hand her over to the dealers for inspection for a week or so...

I'm curious to see what my replacement bike will be.
Meanwhile...I will be drooling over this since they just got them in, the MT-10 :blush:

Good Luck, Riko; please keep us updated.

 

[Riko_imp]

Will do!

 

[Riko_imp]

So, the sexy beast was handed over to the dealers for inspection.

and this ugly beast takes its place


God I hope only for a short period...
To me the Deauville is the most ugly bike sold today, from all angles.
Its really ugly as cuss and the pics dont do it justice, its worse in real life. leepy:

I must say it did a great job at protecting me from the hardest rain I have ever experienced, my hand and feet were wet after 5-10 minutes, even with goretex glove and leather alpinestar shoes.

Hell, on the CB I even had drops of water enter my Nolan N104 helmet at the chin area, I never experienced such a wet dreadful ride.
And in Belgium its rains a lot...

But I have to say the ugly replacement protected me perfectly, I had no dripping helmet.