CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[the Ferret]

So for those with high idle issues...frustrating as it may be, are there any long term problems with just ignoring it, ride like you always do and just live with it? Anyone with high idle have stalling issues? I actually bought this bike to do long distance rides, travel the Northwest lots and across the US a couple of times.

Remember this is a very isolated incidence. A problem for those that have the issue but not an issue for the vast majority. Like BMW final drive failures. BMW says 5% of their bikes had the issue, which means 95% ride hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues.I imagine this issue is even smaller in numbers percentage wise for CB1100 owners. Also remember this is the 8th year of production for this motorcycle .If it were a common problem, Honda would have acted on it I'm sure, but I believe the major components haven't changed in the entire 8 year model run.

Sanoke (over 60K), Haystack (over 60K) Cormanus (Over 40 K) Myself (around 43K on 2 different CBs), KennyW, Empty Sea and others ride all over our respective countries and have never had the issue. Not saying it couldn't happen to one of us, but personally I am not going to worry about it unless I am suddenly affected. Right now I am more worried about getting rid of the giant paper mache' wasp nest about the size of a basketball I just discovered under one of my dormers.

 

[suhawk305]

"Right now I am more worried about getting rid of the giant paper mache' wasp nest about the size of a basketball I just discovered under one of my dormers."

Ferret, have someone take a video of you when you decide to attack that wasp nest!

 

[pdedse]

So for those with high idle issues...frustrating as it may be, are there any long term problems with just ignoring it, ride like you always do and just live with it? Anyone with high idle have stalling issues? I actually bought this bike to do long distance rides, travel the Northwest lots and across the US a couple of times.

Remember this is a very isolated incidence. A problem for those that have the issue but not an issue for the vast majority. Like BMW final drive failures. BMW says 5% of their bikes had the issue, which means 95% ride hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues.I imagine this issue is even smaller in numbers percentage wise for CB1100 owners. Also remember this is the 8th year of production for this motorcycle .If it were a common problem, Honda would have acted on it I'm sure, but I believe the major components haven't changed in the entire 8 year model run.

Sanoke (over 60K), Haystack (over 60K) Cormanus (Over 40 K) Myself (around 43K on 2 different CBs), KennyW, Empty Sea and others ride all over our respective countries and have never had the issue. Not saying it couldn't happen to one of us, but personally I am not going to worry about it unless I am suddenly affected. Right now I am more worried about getting rid of the giant paper mache' wasp nest about the size of a basketball I just discovered under one of my dormers.

I get what you're saying...it's great that so few are affected. But the fact that many don't have problems doesn't help those that do.

The gist of my question was not "wow, so many have this problem", rather it was "if ignored, what long term problems could result?"

In short, in what ways could a 1500 idle affect the bike's performance, longevity, if at all?

 

[the Ferret]

Pdedse, my response was to your statement about buying the bike to ride long distances. IMO It's nothing to worry about it, just ride it.

A 1500 rpm idle while annoying would have no detrimental effects on the engine. It's only 450 rpms higher than normal. These engine can actually run at redline nearly indefinitly without engine damage.

 

[pdedse]

Ah, long distances, I see that. I've never doubted its capacity to do long distances--most often it's the rider that limits himself, not the bike. I'm already planning on replicating last summers OR to Illinois trip for next summer, but I want to head through North Dakota this time, Minnesota and Wisconsin before heading south.

But what i don't want to do is invest in this bike trying to fix something that, while maybe annoying, really isn't harming anything. A high idle I can live with. All my other bikes had carbs so they were relatively easy to adjust and get tuned in just right.

Thanks.

 

[dave]

Remember this is a very isolated incidence. A problem for those that have the issue but not an issue for the vast majority. Like BMW final drive failures. BMW says 5% of their bikes had the issue, which means 95% ride hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues.I imagine this issue is even smaller in numbers percentage wise for CB1100 owners. Also remember this is the 8th year of production for this motorcycle .If it were a common problem, Honda would have acted on it I'm sure, but I believe the major components haven't changed in the entire 8 year model run.

Ferret: What would you be doing if this "isolated incidence" (not true) was happening to your bike? What would you be doing right now if sometimes your bike stalled at every stop light, and other times the engine idled at 1,500 RPM (or higher)?

 

[the Ferret]

Remember this is a very isolated incidence. A problem for those that have the issue but not an issue for the vast majority. Like BMW final drive failures. BMW says 5% of their bikes had the issue, which means 95% ride hundreds of thousands of miles with no issues.I imagine this issue is even smaller in numbers percentage wise for CB1100 owners. Also remember this is the 8th year of production for this motorcycle .If it were a common problem, Honda would have acted on it I'm sure, but I believe the major components haven't changed in the entire 8 year model run.

Ferret: What would you be doing if this "isolated incidence" (not true) was happening to your bike? What would you be doing right now if sometimes your bike stalled at every stop light, and other times the engine idled at 1,500 RPM (or higher)?

Dave, first off it IS an isolated incidence, since not everyone is having it. As a matter of fact statistically very FEW are having it. We have 3000 members from 21 countries, and I doubt if 2 dozen members world wide have reported having an issue.

But if it were happening to my bike I would be dealing with it like the others are, contacting my dealer, contacting Honda, and wondering why I was having the issue with my bike. It may very well happen to my bike someday. But until it does I'm not going to worry about it, I'm going to ride the bike. If it were stalling at every traffic light (I don't think that is happening to anyone, certainly not to many) but if it were, THAT would be a safety issue and if I got no response from Honda I might begin legal proceedings.

I'm not making light of it, it's an issue some are having, and believe me I have been here since the beginning when this started happening, as have many others, and we have all been trying to figure this out, why it happens to some and why it doesn't happen to others, what's it's root cause, and what's it's cure? Some have replaced or reflashed ECU's, one replaced throttle bodies, some have replaced other electrical components, one replaced his battery, one was cured with high speed runs, some have seemingly cured themselves, who knows? it's certainly baffling, and I feel for those with the issue, but I don't think it's something that the current owners or prospective buyers of a CB 1100 need to worry much about. It's not a common problem with the model. It may be the most common issue with the CB1100, but in reality it's not a very common issue.

 

[johnf514_imp]

Ferret, much appreciated with your response. It isn't the fact that the issue is uncommon (which you are right, it is), however, as a supportive forum, it is the fact that the issue is present and real and we are trying to do something about it as a community.

I fully recognize that as an owner of a CB1100 without said issue, this topic may tend to frustrate, however as a owner of a bike that had this issue, it is infuriating to see your prized machine stumbling, overheating, clunking into gear, gulping down fuel, sounding different, and most of all, pulling through low revs while in gear.

This thread is +39 pages for a reason. Let's see if we can find out why.

 

[the Ferret]

John, I can certainly sympathize, believe me I want everyone's experience to be great with their CBs.

I am currently going thru the two main threads on this issue and compiling a list. Just finished the first thread ( 15 pages starting in 1/2016) and about to tackle this one.

So far there are 6 in the USA (counting yours), 1 from Germany, 1 from Canada, 1 from Taiwan, 1 from Thailand, and 1 from the UK (11 total) and as I said above fixes ranged from IACV replacement, to battery replacement, to ECU replacement or reset, to high speed running/ track day. It should also be noted that the cure for some, were tried and did not work for others with the same issue.

After a shower I will finish up doing this longer thread, and report back. Many of the posters in the original thread are the same posters in this 39 page thread, and many offering advise and possible cures are the same people as well. At any rate, I'm going thru them post by post, reading every one, and writing down who, when, what, where and why.

Note that I have never denied there is an issue, there obviously is with some bikes. Would love to find out what the issue is so we can make educated recommendations to anyone who has the issue crop up, but it is so rare and cures so different, at this point we are target shooting at night with no moon. IOW we can't see clearly what the target is or how to hit it.

More to come.

 

[pdedse]

Maybe it would be a good idea to begin tabulating the info from those affected so that we have ready access to the data instead of sifting through pages. Could we capture the types of problems in a poll in a separate thread, or this one?

--year, model, mileage when the problem(s) started
--specific issue: high, low rpm, both, stalling
--what was done: nothing, replace this/that, result
--if nothing was done: constant problem, sporadic, worsen

That's what comes to mind, maybe a spreadsheet type of thing instead of poll.

It might help to have this when dealing with a dealers / Honda now and down the road.

thoughts?

 

[the Ferret]

That is sort of what I am doing.

What I have started is

Name, country, original post date as far as I can tell, and what was done to cure it

Example (3 of first 11) from first 15 page thread

Jeff Hark USA 1/2016 IACV replaced
Glackie Canada 9/2016 TPS reset
Tory Thailand 10/2016 ECU refresh

Notice, 3 countries 3 different cures

I did not note year, model of bike most were 2014 EX's I think but I can gather that info if posted

Headed to page 1 of this thread now will report entire results from both threads when completed.

 

[curlyjoe]

I can help out too. As pdedse suggested, I can put together a google spreadsheet and share it with everyone. It would be ideal to extract as much info from the 2 threads as possible. It's easy to add columns to a spreadsheet.

 

[the Ferret]

Have all the info jotted down. Right now I'm going to type it into a Word thingy and post that, and curlyjoe, if you want to make it into some kind of spread sheet thingy all the better.

 

[Riko_imp]

I'm in!
Its good to have a track record of the issue!

I'll share the link on the various international facebook groups and other national boards I'm a member (French, German, UK)

 

[the Ferret]

Idle issues compilation
Name country model mo/ year posted issue cure
Jeff Hark USA 1/2016 IACV replaced
Ericlo69 Taiwan 2014EX 3/2016 High Idle throttle Valve Assy replaced
Johnf514 USA 6/2016 High Idle IACV replaced/ecu reset
Glackie Canada 2014 Std 9/2016 TPS reset
Dave USA 2014 DLX 9/2015 high/low idle/stalling 12/16 Battery replaced, 8/16 self cured, 1/17 disconnect EOT, 3/17 high speed runs
Tory Thailand 10/2016 ECU upgrade
BeardyWeirdy UK 2014EX 11/2016 ECU software upgrade
Wisedrum Germany 11/2016 High Idle Disconnected Battery
Rolls USA 12/2016 High Idle High speed runs/track day
736cc USA 2013 std 12/2016 Replaced battery
Macenthor USA 1/2017
TK Lee S Korea 10/2015
LARider USA 2014 std 4/2016 low idle Self Cured/bad Gas
MotoGeezer USA 2014 DLX 4/2016 low idle happened once/self cured
Riko Belgium 2014 EX 4/2016 low idle Throttle body assy replaced
Scooticus Malaysia 5/2016 Loosened throttle free play
Dinap1981 Italy 12/2016
Kmoney Canada 9/2016 high idle unplugged EOT
Magnus USA 3/2017
Mechanix USA 3/2017 self cure
RandyB USA 2013 std self cure/bad gas
Hatred66 USA 2014 std 3/2017 High Speed run
Sandhog USA 2013 ABS 3/2017 low idle EOT sensor replaced
Dsan1964 USA 7/2017
MM300 USA 2014 DLX 7/2017 TPS reset
Pdese USA 2014 Std 7/2017 high idle

*** New different issue

Rustyski USA 2014 STD 7/2017 Died at 70 mph

additional notes


8/2016 Beardy said new mapping available soon that stepper motor shutting down too quickly

according to Daves research the same IAVC is used on over 100 different Honda models from 500cc to 1100cc dating back to 2007

3rd hand info
Was noted in Holland France and Netherlands good luck was had with replacing IAVC
Someone in Asia I believe mentioned a throttle body cleaning cured the problem on a fellows there
I noticed when looking where everyone was from that the vast majority of USA owners reporting issues were from California (weird huh?)

Finally
Beardy reported 2017s have a different IAVC

 

[pdedse]

Good job, Ferret

 

[the Ferret]

Well it was all spaced nicely in columns when I typed it into Word. Copied and pasted here, it all slammed together lol.

 

[curlyjoe]

Thanks to Ferret for digging up this data.

Here's the link to the spreadsheet

Anyone with the link can edit the spreadsheet.

There's some missing data so perhaps the forum members can add missing data to their line in the sheet.

 

[the Ferret]

Thanks curlyjoe!

 

[dave]

Ferret: Thank you so much for doing this! All of us with idle issues thank you. Curlyjoe, thank you for creating the spreadsheet - I will edit it right after I complete this post.

I am willing to bet that some of the cures, such as bad gas, TPS reset, and replacing the battery are not permanent. My issue comes and goes as it pleases. Is there a way we can include on the spread sheet if the "cure" was permanent or not?

I did not see the post from Beardy about the different part number on the IACV - this is very interesting! The throttle body assemblies are the same part number for both years, so this means the new IACV can be installed in the earlier models. However, the PGM-FI Units have different part numbers, so I am not sure if the different part number IACV would work or not. However, I would really like to know why Honda changed the part number for the IACV. I am the one who posted that the CB1100 IACV part number is used on many different Honda motorcycles - why suddenly change it?

Thanks again to Ferret and Curlyjoe for help resolving this annoying issue. This is exactly why I love this forum - people are so willing to help.