Any interest in cams?

[PowerDubs_imp]

Again- disagree, sorry


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[Ulvetanna_imp]

Best bang for the buck, intake/exhaust mods and reflash. Hard to say just what the engine could stand in terms of lift and duration, and additional heat produced by the extra energy. But this thread is one to watch. I'd like to see what's what with the cams. Not hard to swap them out, that's for sure.

I would like to have cams that would fix the deliberate miss matched timing.:biker:
Don't need any more power though.
Kevin

I'm very much interested in this too. I find mine a bit rough around the 3400 - 3800 RPM range and blame it on the deliberate mismatch.

What I'd like ideally is to buy new cams from a reputable cam shop that makes them just like stock except to fix the mismatch firing. Then would need someone like Don Guhl to reflash the ECU to correct the timing and it would be in theory smoother than it is now. Either that or I just need to let it go.

I'm very much interested in this too. I find mine a bit rough around the 3400 - 3800 RPM range and blame it on the deliberate mismatch.

What I'd like ideally is to buy new cams from a reputable cam shop that makes them just like stock except to fix the mismatch firing. Then would need someone like Don Guhl to reflash the ECU to correct the timing and it would be in theory smoother than it is now. Either that or I just need to let it go. I also would not mind having that little burble dialed out. I wonder about the cams for the 2017...what changes? I think there must be some kind of change because torque numbers are claimed to be at a different part of the RPM range.

I respectfully, but highly disagree. I've been doing this my whole life, have done hundreds of dynos and am anal enough to dyno piece by piece and compare. Hell, my current play car alone has had 4 different sized cam sets in it, each dynoed by themselves- I dynoed it at 2 different dynos in 3 days just 2 weeks ago just to compare results. That isn't counting different headers, cats, catbacks, ported cyl head, bigger throttlebody...

Cams on this bike should make intake/exhaust/flash look like a joke and a waste of money.

Don't misunderstand- and engine is an air pump and complete package, any bottleneck is a bottle neck, but I have yet to see where cams aren't king.

For now I own a Staintune muffler, Arrow headers, Dynojet Power Commander, Dynojet Autotune. A set of cams should do nicely- and if not extreme shouldn't loose much down low. You would be amazed how much is choked off on modern stuff for emissions and sound.

I respectfully, but highly disagree. I've been doing this my whole life, have done hundreds of dynos and am anal enough to dyno piece by piece and compare. Hell, my current play car alone has had 4 different sized cam sets in it, each dynoed by themselves- I dynoed it at 2 different dynos in 3 days just 2 weeks ago just to compare results. That isn't counting different headers, cats, catbacks, ported cyl head, bigger throttlebody...

Cams on this bike should make intake/exhaust/flash look like a joke and a waste of money.

Don't misunderstand- and engine is an air pump and complete package, any bottleneck is a bottle neck, but I have yet to see where cams aren't king.

For now I own a Staintune muffler, Arrow headers, Dynojet Power Commander, Dynojet Autotune. A set of cams should do nicely- and if not extreme shouldn't loose much down low. You would be amazed how much is choked off on modern stuff for emissions and sound. Replacing cams is what you like to do, so for you it seems like no more difficulty than changing an oil filter, and really, it isn't that hard, but it is a few hours work for the CB1100, and fraught with peril for the non-mechanic. Not to mention it would completely void the bike's warranty. (An ECU flash might also, but that could argued or even swept under the rug by reflashing back to stock or swapping the ECU as some do). Heck, most guys are not at all willing to take on a valve clearance check let alone mess with changing cams, especially since the bike does not have a chassis up to handling any more power. Yep, I mean any more. Even five horses is too much more for this bike. I just spent all day tearing around our local canyons confirming that once again. It don't have the suspenders or gridwork for putting 100 horse to the ground.

Anyway, that is an interesting comparison, because a change in camshaft makes a reflash absolutely necessary; it could not be done safely or correctly without that. On the other hand, the reflash could be without a cam change and still get that 5 ponies, but of course some kind of exhaust work would be needed. A better reflash is Guhl's basic flash, which removes restrictions per gear position (the first three gears retard the timing) and per the speed limiter, is said to smooth throttle response.

The last thing most owners want is more top end. Shoulda bought another bike for that; BMW's RNineT, Triumph's Thruxton 1200, those are retros with good top end.

As far as I can discern no one even makes a cam for this bike. Maybe I missed that so apologies if I did.

Again- disagree, sorry


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Just keep us posted on this. I am actually interested in see what's possible and what your dyno results are, with the whole mod package.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Ulvetanna Wrote:Replacing cams is .... really, it isn't that hard, but it is a few hours work for the CB1100, and fraught with peril for the non-mechanic. Not to mention it would completely void the bike's warranty.

If someone pays a shop to adjust their valves, swapping the cams at the same time is trivial.

Warranty is 1 year from purchase, no? Most people are out of warranty.

You should come to the car world- even less people tear into their own engines but COUNTLESS guys pay a shop to make their car faster. Just because someone doesn't do their own engine work doesn't mean a product shouldn't exist.


Ulvetanna Wroteince the bike does not have a chassis up to handling any more power. Yep, I mean any more. Even five horses is too much more for this bike. I just spent all day tearing around our local canyons confirming that once again. It don't have the suspenders or gridwork for putting 100 horse to the ground.
Again, I disagree.

Plenty of worse handling bikes have had more power than this. Sorry if your skills or balls aren't up to the task. (joke)

On a serious response- who said power has to be only used in a corner at speed? I'd counter that most people floor it on straightaways... in fact, that is where max throttle, max rpm is used.



Ulvetanna Wrote:because a change in camshaft makes a reflash absolutely necessary; it could not be done safely or correctly without that.

I'd wager the bike would run fine on cams as is. To make optimum gains, retune should be done on ANY mod- exhaust, intake, cams, you name it. But start, idle and run ok? Cams will be fine. These aren't carbs.


Ulvetanna Wrote:The last thing most owners want is more top end. Shoulda bought another bike for that; BMW's RNineT, Triumph's Thruxton 1200, those are retros with good top end.
I hate that statement. I do not know how old you are, or how much experience you have with bikes- but I'd expect that response out of a young newb that thinks only the latest greatest sport bike can have power.

Give me a break, there are people who hotrod ANY type of motorcycle. And even the people on here that tend to put around (I am one of them these days) still open the throttle every once in a while and if the bike is capable of a little more excitement through rev range without a loss at normal RPM ridden then there is nothing to loose other than money.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Man, we really need that popcorn eating smiley.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Yes


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[Carguy1959_imp]

If you can add a bigger cam,carb, exhaust to a Chevy 350 and make gobbs more power over stock? Why can't you do it to a bike motor? The cam is the key ingredient.
Also maybe some port and polish.

 

[Ulvetanna_imp]

Ulvetanna Wrote:Replacing cams is .... really, it isn't that hard, but it is a few hours work for the CB1100, and fraught with peril for the non-mechanic. Not to mention it would completely void the bike's warranty.

If someone pays a shop to adjust their valves, swapping the cams at the same time is trivial.

Warranty is 1 year from purchase, no? Most people are out of warranty.

You should come to the car world- even less people tear into their own engines but COUNTLESS guys pay a shop to make their car faster. Just because someone doesn't do their own engine work doesn't mean a product shouldn't exist.


Ulvetanna Wroteince the bike does not have a chassis up to handling any more power. Yep, I mean any more. Even five horses is too much more for this bike. I just spent all day tearing around our local canyons confirming that once again. It don't have the suspenders or gridwork for putting 100 horse to the ground.
Again, I disagree.

Plenty of worse handling bikes have had more power than this. Sorry if your skills or balls aren't up to the task. (joke)

On a serious response- who said power has to be only used in a corner at speed? I'd counter that most people floor it on straightaways... in fact, that is where max throttle, max rpm is used.



Ulvetanna Wrote:because a change in camshaft makes a reflash absolutely necessary; it could not be done safely or correctly without that.

I'd wager the bike would run fine on cams as is. To make optimum gains, retune should be done on ANY mod- exhaust, intake, cams, you name it. But start, idle and run ok? Cams will be fine. These aren't carbs.


Ulvetanna Wrote:The last thing most owners want is more top end. Shoulda bought another bike for that; BMW's RNineT, Triumph's Thruxton 1200, those are retros with good top end.
I hate that statement. I do not know how old you are, or how much experience you have with bikes- but I'd expect that response out of a young newb that thinks only the latest greatest sport bike can have power.

Give me a break, there are people who hotrod ANY type of motorcycle. And even the people on here that tend to put around (I am one of them these days) still open the throttle every once in a while and if the bike is capable of a little more excitement through rev range without a loss at normal RPM ridden then there is nothing to loose other than money.

I hate that statement. I do not know how old you are, or how much experience you have with bikes- but I'd expect that response out of a young newb that thinks only the latest greatest sport bike can have power. The last thing I am is a newb. 35 years riding, I'll turn 60 this year, God willing, over 50 bikes owned, nearly a million miles ridden and still at it. No further interest in this topic, though. Finish yer popcorn, guys, the show's over.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

Wait a minute, you forgot your ball!


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[emptysea]

I'll just jump in here because I have nothing else to do: Ulvetanna should not be assuming what "most owners" want or don't want and regardless of that, the assumption is irrelevant to the question you asked which was if anyone was interested in cams. On the other hand, Ulvetanna is not a"newb" and that should have been obvious to you based upon his other comments in the thread. Oddly enough, Ulvetanna seems to be interested in cams or, more precisely, interested in seeing your results. I am too, although I'm not interested at all in doing this to my bike and I couldn't care less if my bike tops out at 112 or 118 or 150.

oh...and your thread, your ball. Popgun's popcorn.

 

[PowerDubs_imp]

I have no desire to do 100+ on this bike either, nor drag pegs. But opening up a couple gears from a red light or parking lot is always fun.


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[Aussieflyer]

I respect the trouble folks go to when modifying a bike or car to suit own taste. There's more to motorcycling than being limited by the specifications and intent of the design engineers ... sometimes you've just gotta add some character to stir up the emotions.

Go for it PowerDubs, I'm keen to see what you do with the power plant.
Watching with interest.

 

[Carguy1959_imp]

With out looking it up, does anybody know the comp ratio of this motor?

 

[dsan1964_imp]

9:5. 1.


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[ryanschillinger_imp]

I'm really interested to see what you're able to do with the cam swap. I'm no expert so what's the main difference between our 1100 and high power 1000's? Is it cams? Compression? Combo!

 

[Cyclic_imp]

I'm interested. I'd like to see what the motor has in it. This must be the least stressed engine in the world to make the power it does at it's size. Also I'm almost due for a valve check.

 

[Ben70_imp]

Hey, PD... Did you Happen to eyeball the cams when you had them? From what I have been able to discern from various sources the "character enhancing" effect was achieved by leaving the exhaust valves on cyls 1 & 2 open 10 degrees longer. They didn't say opening them later as well, so I am assuming that the duration would be longer as evidenced by a wider peak on the lobe, for the exhaust cam on cyls 1 & 2, or possibly a bit of hunchback on the trailing slope to achieve that. this may result in more "valve overlap" on those cyls. and induce the sensation which I for one would not mind losing. Not really interested in more oomph, maybe less buzz.
Also, if that is how they are doing it. there is no need to modify injector or spark timing because that;s all happening on the intake side.???Let us know what you discover. Thanks

Ben

 

[feralchimp_imp]

As long as the new cams don't add any more weight to the bike, count me among the "uncork it until reliability suffers" camp. :beerchug:

 

[Rebel73_imp]

The CB tops out at 112mph in factory trim and with a simple reflash will hit ~130, right? Why really would anyone be interested in more top end? I can understand maybe in a track situation, but just how fast can you go on the street? I like to see what a car or bike can do in a 1/4 mile run, which is the power band that most people use on the street. If the cams can enhance that number, count me in the interested camp.

 

[Carguy1959_imp]

What I would be interested in is HP and 1/4 mile time. At 85 HP and low 12 1/4 time, I think there is some room for improvement.

 

[use2b_imp]

I think much money could be spent to make this bike go faster only to be blown away by any 600 Sport bike.
Learned my lesson with Hayabusa's and almost got me killed.
Now I am so happy to have a Smooth Honda that is happy at 2K in 5th gear and will not change a thing . It is what it is !