Another shock thread, but SHOWA

J

JLEECB

Running like a top
Thread starter
I’ve been scouring over the old shock threads for days. Still not a ton of clarity. A lot of the comments in the forum boil down to get a shock for your riding weight and voila. I picked up a used Werks pair that were already set up in my weight range. They are fine for the most part. However sometimes I ride to work and carry my gear, and I generally like to do a long trip once a year on my cb1100, in which I hate the shocks. So I’d like something with adjustability, but still better than stock. I love the look of the ohlins, especially the piggybacks. I still can’t really tell if they are actually adjustable, or is it too technical to make those adjustments on the fly.

So, scouring for parts because basically everything else on the bike is or will be upgraded from stock, I came across these Advantage Showa shocks. My brief email with webike they gave me another website and said they are adjustable. I see knobs and dials. Not sure if that makes them easily adjustable or what they all do. Is it as easy as I think or am I missing something?

ADVANTAGE : SHOWA RS-r Rear Suspension (Hydraulic Initial Adjuster) [621-H001-RGB]

Additionally, what needs to be done with the grab bar and my rear Honda rack to accommodate? Or is the only real solution running them upside down?

Also I know sticker shock on the price, but I’ve been working 60-70 hour weeks since October so I’m throwing money at my bike to feel better.
 
I'm curious what exactly was wrong with the stock shocks, or the Works shocks. Too much rebound or compression damping, or wrong spring rate - too stiff or bottoms out?

Those Showa RS-R shocks have click-adjustable compression and rebound damping, which is probably not the problem. The spring preload is adjusted by turning the knobs, which rotates a nut around the threads - it is slow.
 
I would keep it simple and not go further than a shock made for your weight and riding style and bike. Just preload adjust, a given these days of course, and a single rebound adjuster. The bike weight is an integral part of the spring rate consideration. If you had those other shocks made for your weight it would of included the weight of the other bike and not be relevant for the CB.

If you are feeling flush Shock Absorber Type 640 TS Road
 
Thread starter
I didn’t hate the stock shocks, but when I upgraded to 2017 forks I upgraded the rear shocks. The works are a really good when I’m riding with no gear. I was considering having them rebuilt, but yes I really want the ability to adjust. When I wear a backpack loaded with food and drinks for a day of work or I load camping gear on a trip to, i really feel the sag affect handling. Myself I have a history of going up and down weight in a 40 pound range.

I realized I needed to do a little more research. I get how the showas adjust now. I came across the XTrig preload adjuster which are quite useful for retrofitting shocks with easily adjustable preload settings. I like those Wilber’s a lot. The konis seem good and functional. I like the multiple set preloads. There’s something in me that wants a more modern looking shock. Not sure it’s worth the money but that’s what I’m leaning right now.

I’m still trying to figure out what I need to do if I decide on piggy back shocks to retain the grab bar and rear Honda carrier rack. When I’ve gone back to old threads on the subject it appears vague, or in one case the photos no longer appear, guessing no longer available from host site.
Tev62_imp said:
I would keep it simple and not go further than a shock made for your weight and riding style and bike. Just preload adjust, a given these days of course, and a single rebound adjuster. The bike weight is an integral part of the spring rate consideration. If you had those other shocks made for your weight it would of included the weight of the other bike and not be relevant for the CB.

If you are feeling flush Shock Absorber Type 640 TS Road
Click to expand...
The works shocks were actually used from someone else who had a cb1100 and was in the same weight range as me. It’s dialed in for the bike, but needing a rebuild and my desire for occasional gear or the rare passenger has me ready to move on.
 
As far as quickly adjusting preload, the ones with threaded bodies take a long time to adjust because you need 2 tools to loosen the lock ring and turn the adjusting ring. It would take 9 full rotations of the ring to compress/loosen the preload 1/2", probably not enough to make a real difference. Same with the 3 or 5 position ramp style adjusters on most other shocks.

I would recommend rebuilding the Works shocks, if they are still in business. They changed to WorxShocks, same location. Other shock specialists should be able to do that too, as there are a lot of old Works shocks still floating around.

Works' clever solution to address the quick adjust problem was a 3-position preload limiter. With a longer, heavier spring and a shorter lighter one, rotating the handle to one of 3 positions could negate the effects of the shorter lighter one.

A single progressive spring would do the same, but only by reducing ride height, a problem the Works ARS Adjustable Rate Suspension eliminates. And this is in addition to either the threaded preload nuts or stepped circlip adjustments, so it can be fine tuned.

Here's a pic:
Works Performance ARS Shocks - SuperHawk Forum
 
Thread starter
Mine just has the adjustable collar, no preload quick adjustments. I know there was a custom bike builder here that could rebuild it, but I’m fairly set on something new. M In Sc I’ll definitely be selling em once I get something new put on. Here’s my shocks as I received them.

https://imgur.com/a/3yFFcsl
 
Here is another vote for the Ikon's. This is the way I look at it. While yes, a higher spec pair of shocks would be the better way to go, if you were riding at closer to the proverbial 9-10/10's all the time, do you actually NEED something that goes that far deep into the adjustability range? Probably not. I mean, we all put up with riding these CB's in stock form. They aren't the worst suspended bikes ever.

Works used to be a decent option over stock shocks. Once the old man died though, the company basically closed. Works are rebuildable, but I haven't worked in the industry for a while now, so I don't know who offers rebuild kits for those shocks.
 
My bike's shock absorbers also have little rebound damping and with a passenger this is even more evident. The spirit of the CB750Four has remained intact...
Without haste I was looking around and I decided on the IKON 7610. I have had them on many bikes (Yamaha XJ 900, Guzzi Le Mans, etc) and they have always been perfect. In Italy the dealer also overhauls them with excellent results. Spending a little more you can also have the chrome springs and the covers that make them perfect for the EX. Perhaps the only limit is the preload adjustable on only 3 positions instead of 5, but the rebound damping adjustable on 4 positions (I have always used them on the 3rd) is fantastic!!!
 
My friends, I could use some coaching. I deeply admire great engineering and hold tradesman in equally high regard. I can usually recognize fine products when I see them.

I have followed this particular thread with great interest. The links were fascinating to review because it appears to me that there are significantly different approaches to motorcycle suspension system from leading suppliers.

Tev62 post was very informative.

http://epmperformance.com/products/...ts-road-640-1092-00-cb-1100-ex-sc66-2014-2018

I have seen these shocks on sport tourers and baggers. They are beautiful, and when I asked riders about them, their response has always been incredibly favorable. Now that I see the costs, part of that enthusiasm may be in part to assure themselves that the cost is justified. :)

I was also very impressed that Frankenstein has had a long, rewarding history with IKON 761 on the many motorcycles he has owned and upgraded. Although I have never seen an IKON 761 “in person,” it is obvious that Frankenstein has great insight and experience, just like Tev62.

My problem is that I am ignorant. I know how to wrench, and I know how to research. I know how to ride, and I am confident, experienced motorcyclist.

But I have never, ever ridden a motorcycle which has had a suspension upgrade. I also find the stock system on a CB1100 comfortable. That opinion, I fear, may be related to my lack of experience and knowledge about suspension systems.

Here are my goals. I welcome any guidance or direction you care to share.

I want to do everything which is reasonable to make the riding experience on my 2017 CB1100EX comfortable. I like a neutral ride. I enjoy the sport feel of my motorcycle, but I also want to limit stress and strain on my body over the years I plan to ride. My rides rarely exceed 100 miles in a day. Riding two up is a very rare experience for me. Finally, i travel light. 15 Lbs of luggage is a heavy load. Often, it is just me, a helmet, and protective gear. I am 5’11” tall and I weigh 152 LBs. I estimate my boots, pants, jacket, gloves, and helmet add another 10-12 LBs.

For those of you in the know, what susoension system upgrades should I consider if any given my riding habits and goals? Should I just accept the OEM system I have now until such time there is a true problem I can articulate? Would a suspension upgrade take my riding experience from very good to fantastic? If you have time, I welcome your response. Thanks in advance. David
 
Hey Rdprdp01,
Ramblings of a bored old man follow...
Many owners have ridden huge mileage and are satisfied with the standard rear shocks. If it aint broke, don't fix it comes to mind. Although the stock shocks were comfortable they were a little under damped causing the occasional wallow so I went the other way and changed stuff just for the fun of it. My relevant learnings from an 'upgrade' of rear suspension are summarised below.
- no matter how fast you think you are we are street riders on the street, not racers on a track.
- aftermarket 'performance' suspension is usually focused for racing / track application.
- tracks are relatively smooth without the potholes and sharp edge bumps of streets.
- racing / track application suspension needs to manage braking, cornering and acceleration loads the occasional ripple or undulations but not potholes.
- adjustable suspension (preload, compression and rebound) is usually limited to the 'low speed' dampening and often via small / thin valved bypass openings.
- performance shocks 'high speed' dampening is usually relatively heavily damped as required to manage cornering loads.
- performance shocks look cool but even when correctly sprung for rider and bike weight they may not be ideal for rough streets.
- my performance shocks required re-valving to dramatically reduce high speed dampening.
- my shocks now run 0 weight fluid at zero rebound and zero compression dampening settings to achieve adequate comfort on the street.

Upgrading suspension is worthwhile however best results for street application may come from aftermarket shocks intended for street riding not track riding. As a bonus they may be the cheaper option.

Good luck with your project
 
I'd say as you already have a '17 which has the dual bending valve forks...and you only weigh 150lbs- I'd probably just keep the stock rear shocks in that situation.
 
Aussieflyer_imp said:
Hey Rdprdp01,
Ramblings of a bored old man follow...
Many owners have ridden huge mileage and are satisfied with the standard rear shocks. If it aint broke, don't fix it comes to mind. Although the stock shocks were comfortable they were a little under damped causing the occasional wallow so I went the other way and changed stuff just for the fun of it. My relevant learnings from an 'upgrade' of rear suspension are summarised below.
- no matter how fast you think you are we are street riders on the street, not racers on a track.
- aftermarket 'performance' suspension is usually focused for racing / track application.
- tracks are relatively smooth without the potholes and sharp edge bumps of streets.
- racing / track application suspension needs to manage braking, cornering and acceleration loads the occasional ripple or undulations but not potholes.
- adjustable suspension (preload, compression and rebound) is usually limited to the 'low speed' dampening and often via small / thin valved bypass openings.
- performance shocks 'high speed' dampening is usually relatively heavily damped as required to manage cornering loads.
- performance shocks look cool but even when correctly sprung for rider and bike weight they may not be ideal for rough streets.
- my performance shocks required re-valving to dramatically reduce high speed dampening.
- my shocks now run 0 weight fluid at zero rebound and zero compression dampening settings to achieve adequate comfort on the street.

Upgrading suspension is worthwhile however best results for street application may come from aftermarket shocks intended for street riding not track riding. As a bonus they may be the cheaper option.

Good luck with your project
Click to expand...
Thank you for the benefit of your experience, insight, and dare I say wisdom. I try to subscribe to the don’t fix it if ain’t broken way of life, particularly when it comes to motorcycling. I tracked perfectly with everything you said and have opted to leave well enough alone. I think I may have been caught up in the motorcycle hype about better suspension leads to a better riding experience.

My motorcycle handles very well when I am driving like the old man I am or when I feel the need to use the horse power and cornering capabilities engineered into every part of the motorcycle. I am neither tired or sore when I dismount the bikes, too. Clearly, it ain’t broke or me either. :)

25 years ago, I was fortunate to spend six months working in Melbourne. I love the people who adopted me like an awkward cousin who was clueless about everything. My natural drawl courtesy of the Southern United States endeared me to the locals who found it both odd and charming that I was quiet, polite, and respectful. I still remember the beauty of the Great Ocean Road and the genuine warmth and kindness of the Aussies who made sure I saw the real Australia. Cheers, mate. David
m in sc_imp said:
i agree, race shocks aren't needed. shocks wear over time, the oil wears out, its a service item. Mos tpeople as stated, gradually get used to it and think they are just fine. The trick is to learn what a sacked out shock (or fork) feels like. Like said, mine were getting wallowy at 10k or so. when i realized it i was in the mts with my wife on the back.. and yes, riding fast. now, 99% of the time you wont feel it. However, IF you hit a bad section of road and you have a 'comfy' but worn shock, not riding fast or spiritied, its too late. It is a safety item. But it also ergonomically will help over time when the suspension does what its supposed to do.
Click to expand...
MinSC, I read all of your posts. I am particularly grateful for this one because it provides practical, pragmatic advise about what to look for and when to act. I have come to believe you have the heart of a racer even if age and maturity keeps that throttle in check. Safety is my primary concern given the health issues I have spent the last six months navigated. That said, the best medicine I have taken and the things which motivated me through the worst of rehab was the promise of the lovely exhaust note of a CB1100EX moving from the 3rd to 4th which just a little nudge. :) Thanks for taking the time to write the post. David
PowerDubs_imp said:
I'd say as you already have a '17 which has the dual bending valve forks...and you only weigh 150lbs- I'd probably just keep the stock rear shocks in that situation.
Click to expand...
Copy that. I have also read many of your others posts. One that stands out is a recent post you made about the likelihood of a master link snapping on a chain. That healthy skepticism was both amusing and included a cautionary warning to not get caught up in the bulls*** that a Google search may deliver or if someone begins a statement with “I knew a guy . . .” Brilliant stuff. :) David
 
Thread starter
I hemmed and hawed over this decision for a long time. I had changed my mind to get the ikons, but still couldn’t pull the trigger. The older resources on here with piggybacks and keeping the grab handles and luggage rack are vague. But I think from reading I can get away with piggybacks forward and a stubby spare key. Placed order for the Showas and will just learn what I need to about keeping them dialed in depending on my load. I know it’s overkill, but that’s kind of the common theme of my bike. I have magnesium rims and also ordered an active oil cooler a few months ago. Strictly unnecessary but cool.
 
what is an active oil cooler?
 
The ferret_imp said:
what is an active oil cooler?
Click to expand...

It is a brand.

It also serves no purpose...and could actually be harmful.

Proper engine operating temp & oil pressure, and oil flow are not something I would advise anyone to 2nd guess the engineers on....

For anyone that knows me.. I have no issues changing things I think can be improved on, so I don't often discourage things...and when I do, there is a reason.
 
Rdprdp01_imp said:
My friends, I could use some coaching. I deeply admire great engineering and hold tradesman in equally high regard. I can usually recognize fine products when I see them.

I have followed this particular thread with great interest. The links were fascinating to review because it appears to me that there are significantly different approaches to motorcycle suspension system from leading suppliers.

Tev62 post was very informative.

Shock Absorber Type 640 TS Road

I have seen these shocks on sport tourers and baggers. They are beautiful, and when I asked riders about them, their response has always been incredibly favorable. Now that I see the costs, part of that enthusiasm may be in part to assure themselves that the cost is justified. :)

I was also very impressed that Frankenstein has had a long, rewarding history with IKON 761 on the many motorcycles he has owned and upgraded. Although I have never seen an IKON 761 “in person,” it is obvious that Frankenstein has great insight and experience, just like Tev62.

My problem is that I am ignorant. I know how to wrench, and I know how to research. I know how to ride, and I am confident, experienced motorcyclist.

But I have never, ever ridden a motorcycle which has had a suspension upgrade. I also find the stock system on a CB1100 comfortable. That opinion, I fear, may be related to my lack of experience and knowledge about suspension systems.

Here are my goals. I welcome any guidance or direction you care to share.

I want to do everything which is reasonable to make the riding experience on my 2017 CB1100EX comfortable. I like a neutral ride. I enjoy the sport feel of my motorcycle, but I also want to limit stress and strain on my body over the years I plan to ride. My rides rarely exceed 100 miles in a day. Riding two up is a very rare experience for me. Finally, i travel light. 15 Lbs of luggage is a heavy load. Often, it is just me, a helmet, and protective gear. I am 5’11” tall and I weigh 152 LBs. I estimate my boots, pants, jacket, gloves, and helmet add another 10-12 LBs.

For those of you in the know, what susoension system upgrades should I consider if any given my riding habits and goals? Should I just accept the OEM system I have now until such time there is a true problem I can articulate? Would a suspension upgrade take my riding experience from very good to fantastic? If you have time, I welcome your response. Thanks in advance. David
Click to expand...
This is a personal opinion and no more than that. The front forks I would leave well alone on a 2017. The dual bending valve design is there to take the harshness out of the change from low speed to high speed shocks on the bike, e.g. undulating normally (slow) and shocks from bumps, potholes etc (high). I think it does a very good job at that. Better than my all electronic Dynamic suspension up front on my 2023 BMW GS on a bad road :s. These forks were an upgrade to the pre 2017 bikes and they appear as expensive "suspension upgrades" on a number of Harleys. So for me I think they are very good even though they offer no damping adjustment.

I think the stock rear is pretty good, nice reasonable shocks and well suited to everyday use. But definitely room for improvement if you want a specific ride, e.g. very plush/very sporty. Not really a criticism of Honda, they had to choose a ride characteristic to please the majority of riders at some sort of average weight and they went for a good all round solution at a certain price.

I would invest on the rear only if you get to chose the build with a certain amount of input, such as what Wilber's and many other lower cost providers offer. They will normally deliver with the preload set (as they know the weight of the bike and you have provided your details). That just leaves you to find your favourite type of road, max out the damping, see how it goes. Then wind the damping right off and do the same run. Now you know the range you have to work with. From there on you can adjust the damping somewhere in between those limits to suit. I would have no hesitation swapping out the rear shocks if I rode this bike daily.

Another manufacturer is Nitron, a UK company (available in NA) that do twin shocks for the CB1100 but the earlier models. I would be surprised if they didn't do them for the 2017MY too though.



 
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