That's only half the story when it comes to the distance factor as the roads within a few miles of home are also the ones that we return to no matter how far or where we rode to in the first place. So whether we're leaving or returning, that accidents would happen close to home isn't a surprise.Houtman_imp said:
accidents - an unpleasant subject
- Thread starter j3gq_imp
- Start date
Gone in 60
Road warrior
After years of riding, and taking all of the reasonable precautions one is expected to take, I had my first accident this February. As with the previous comments about being close to home, this one happened on my morning commute, right around the corner from my office. An oncoming driver turned left in front of me to enter a parking lot for her office.
As far as my precautions, I was wearing a hi-viz jacket, white helmet, had three LEDs on the front of my bike to maximize my frontal visibility, and was riding at a reasonable speed at the time. Regardless, the driver said "I didn't see you", so despite all of these precautions, they don't always work.
Playing it over and over in my head, I think I did all I could to minimize the impact and damage. I could see her approach in the turn lane, and judging her speed, I figured that she either didn't see me, or thought she could quickly turn in front of me and "beat" me across the street. I didn't have anyone behind me, so I immediately started braking hard, so that I would pass behind her as she completed her turn. I was on my Bonneville, which does not have the best brakes, but I did my best to modulate, and avoid skidding.
Unfortunately, she saw me mid-turn, and panic stopped directly in front of me, making a collision unavoidable. But, I had scrubbed off enough speed that I didn't hit hard, and was able to aim for the opening in her fender just behind her front wheel. The bike planted itself and stayed upright, and I stayed on the seat. Impact speed was minimal, as was the damage to my bike.
I see this as a net positive. Was my reaction perfect? Of course not, but I don't think I could have done anything differently once she stopped with less than 50 feet separating me from the side of her SUV. I even got a pat on the back and a "good job" from the investigating police officer.
How was it positive? It made me realize that I'm not invulnerable. And I'm not as young as I used to be. Despite not coming off of my seat, my inner thighs did a death-grip on the gas tank, and I got two huge bruises on each thigh. And I felt pretty sore for a few days. And, I upped my game a bit. The lady who turned in front of me disputed the accident, claiming that I was at fault. This delayed me in getting my bike repaired until the police report was available, which took quite a bit of time. It was obvious that she was cited at fault, and her insurance company took care of me. I had given some thought to putting a camera on my helmet for my own "insurance", and since then, I bought a GoPro, and never head out on my commute without the camera rolling.
The interesting thing is that, not only does the camera provide me with a way to document anything that might happen to me, it also makes me realize that anything stupid that I do would be documented as well.
As far as my precautions, I was wearing a hi-viz jacket, white helmet, had three LEDs on the front of my bike to maximize my frontal visibility, and was riding at a reasonable speed at the time. Regardless, the driver said "I didn't see you", so despite all of these precautions, they don't always work.
Playing it over and over in my head, I think I did all I could to minimize the impact and damage. I could see her approach in the turn lane, and judging her speed, I figured that she either didn't see me, or thought she could quickly turn in front of me and "beat" me across the street. I didn't have anyone behind me, so I immediately started braking hard, so that I would pass behind her as she completed her turn. I was on my Bonneville, which does not have the best brakes, but I did my best to modulate, and avoid skidding.
Unfortunately, she saw me mid-turn, and panic stopped directly in front of me, making a collision unavoidable. But, I had scrubbed off enough speed that I didn't hit hard, and was able to aim for the opening in her fender just behind her front wheel. The bike planted itself and stayed upright, and I stayed on the seat. Impact speed was minimal, as was the damage to my bike.
I see this as a net positive. Was my reaction perfect? Of course not, but I don't think I could have done anything differently once she stopped with less than 50 feet separating me from the side of her SUV. I even got a pat on the back and a "good job" from the investigating police officer.
How was it positive? It made me realize that I'm not invulnerable. And I'm not as young as I used to be. Despite not coming off of my seat, my inner thighs did a death-grip on the gas tank, and I got two huge bruises on each thigh. And I felt pretty sore for a few days. And, I upped my game a bit. The lady who turned in front of me disputed the accident, claiming that I was at fault. This delayed me in getting my bike repaired until the police report was available, which took quite a bit of time. It was obvious that she was cited at fault, and her insurance company took care of me. I had given some thought to putting a camera on my helmet for my own "insurance", and since then, I bought a GoPro, and never head out on my commute without the camera rolling.
The interesting thing is that, not only does the camera provide me with a way to document anything that might happen to me, it also makes me realize that anything stupid that I do would be documented as well.
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Well written Gin60.
A driver's selfishness will typically override any precautions a rider will take. A person's self-absorption is unconscious and is almost always unstoppable until the damage is done. There is a spreading illness in society that will not significantly recede in our lifetime. We must try our best to remain aware, as you have.
BTW: I have seen a driver sail through a stop sign, then she panic-braked in the intersection messing up adapting traffic.
A driver's selfishness will typically override any precautions a rider will take. A person's self-absorption is unconscious and is almost always unstoppable until the damage is done. There is a spreading illness in society that will not significantly recede in our lifetime. We must try our best to remain aware, as you have.
BTW: I have seen a driver sail through a stop sign, then she panic-braked in the intersection messing up adapting traffic.
Gone in 60
Road warrior
Why thank you, GO.
Something else I thought about... I had gotten a bit lax on my ATGATT. I was wearing regular jeans and work boots when the accident occurred. I have riding pants, but don't use them when the weather is warm. I hadn't planned on filing a claim to do anything more than fix my bike, but on a whim, I took pictures of my big bruises, and sent them to the insurance company. They gave me a small check for my trouble, and I invested the money in a good pair of legitimate riding boots, some reinforced riding pants that are a bit more comfy in warmer weather, and my GoPro. Although I didn't go down, it taught me a good lesson of what could have happened if I did.
Something else I thought about... I had gotten a bit lax on my ATGATT. I was wearing regular jeans and work boots when the accident occurred. I have riding pants, but don't use them when the weather is warm. I hadn't planned on filing a claim to do anything more than fix my bike, but on a whim, I took pictures of my big bruises, and sent them to the insurance company. They gave me a small check for my trouble, and I invested the money in a good pair of legitimate riding boots, some reinforced riding pants that are a bit more comfy in warmer weather, and my GoPro. Although I didn't go down, it taught me a good lesson of what could have happened if I did.
I'm 70 and I've been riding since my mid-twenties. I've never had a accident, at least so far as I can remember
I try to minimize distractions, no extra gauges, no GPS, no cell phone holder, no maps on the tank, no music in my helmet. I'd even almost not have a tach. I have always have ridden very defensively, just like the old man I am now.
For the last twenty years, I've used a headlight modulator, and I can absolutely see the difference it makes. One of the most common problems is people turning onto the road ahead of you, as if you're not there. With the modulator, I see them doing double takes and hesitating. I use a taillight braking modulator too, although I cannot say how effective it is. I used to have two bright blue LEDs on the bolts holding the license plate on. My thought was that the red and blue lights would contrast, drawing attention from those following me. Indeed it did, as I was soon pulled over by a cop and told that blue lights of any kind on my bike were illegal. He was sympathetic, but firm. He said he knew what I was trying to do, but if he caught me with them again, he'd ticket me and maybe impound the bike.
My biggest fear lately is having to stop on the crest of a hill at an intersection. I then find myself trying to wrestle with a +500 pound bike which wants to roll backward and tip over at the same time, which is not as easy as it used to be.
Perhaps my bad day is coming, or perhaps not: "There’s a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, ’tis not to come. If it be not to come, it will be now. If it be not now, yet it will come—the readiness is all."
I try to minimize distractions, no extra gauges, no GPS, no cell phone holder, no maps on the tank, no music in my helmet. I'd even almost not have a tach. I have always have ridden very defensively, just like the old man I am now.For the last twenty years, I've used a headlight modulator, and I can absolutely see the difference it makes. One of the most common problems is people turning onto the road ahead of you, as if you're not there. With the modulator, I see them doing double takes and hesitating. I use a taillight braking modulator too, although I cannot say how effective it is. I used to have two bright blue LEDs on the bolts holding the license plate on. My thought was that the red and blue lights would contrast, drawing attention from those following me. Indeed it did, as I was soon pulled over by a cop and told that blue lights of any kind on my bike were illegal. He was sympathetic, but firm. He said he knew what I was trying to do, but if he caught me with them again, he'd ticket me and maybe impound the bike.
My biggest fear lately is having to stop on the crest of a hill at an intersection. I then find myself trying to wrestle with a +500 pound bike which wants to roll backward and tip over at the same time, which is not as easy as it used to be.
Perhaps my bad day is coming, or perhaps not: "There’s a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, ’tis not to come. If it be not to come, it will be now. If it be not now, yet it will come—the readiness is all."
HI there,Houtman_imp said:
I did not say, the first minutes from home, I said within the first three minutes after departure. And this is how the statistics were recorded. Leave home, count three minutes, stop for a burger and take off, again three minutes, stop at the train station ... I think there is more in this (focus, attention, etc.) than on which road I spend most of the time.
1) I really like what you say above, Paris, I'd recommend it to any rider, any age. I have done the same all my life. And you know what, I "feel" that after 2, 3, 4 hours on the bike in spring, after the winter break, my driving a car gets better instantaneously. So your attitude, plus what sb said before, drive as if you were invisible, really makes a difference. Thank you!Paris_imp said:I'm 70 and I've been riding since my mid-twenties. I've never had a accident, at least so far as I can remember
For the last twenty years, I've used a headlight modulator, and I can absolutely see the difference it makes. One of the most common problems is people turning onto the road ahead of you, as if you're not there. With the modulator, I see them doing double takes and hesitating. I use a taillight braking modulator too, although I cannot say how effective it is. I used to have two bright blue LEDs on the bolts holding the license plate on. My thought was that the red and blue lights would contrast, drawing attention from those following me. Indeed it did, as I was soon pulled over by a cop and told that blue lights of any kind on my bike were illegal. He was sympathetic, but firm. He said he knew what I was trying to do, but if he caught me with them again, he'd ticket me and maybe impound the bike.
My biggest fear lately is having to stop on the crest of a hill at an intersection. I then find myself trying to wrestle with a +500 pound bike which wants to roll backward and tip over at the same time, which is not as easy as it used to be.
Perhaps my bad day is coming, or perhaps not: "There’s a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, ’tis not to come. If it be not to come, it will be now. If it be not now, yet it will come—the readiness is all."
2) Stopping on a hill? let me try to explain what I do, see if it makes sense and if you can use it. Before coming to that stop, I use the foot brake only. When the bike stops that foot remains on the brake. The bike is balanced with the left foot. If I need to role forward, a little gas and clutch, both feet stay where they were. If I need to role backwards, pull the clutch, release the foot brake a tiny bit, that's it. I can even turn the bike around on that hill/street, without any concern. (But this requires a longer description). I promise, you will NOT FEEL the weight.
Please let me know what you think!
HI there,j3gq_imp said:HI there,Houtman_imp said:
I did not say, the first minutes from home, I said within the first three minutes after departure. And this is how the statistics were recorded. Leave home, count three minutes, stop for a burger and take off, again three minutes, stop at the train station ... I think there is more in this (focus, attention, etc.) than on which road I spend most of the time.
1) I really like what you say above, Paris, I'd recommend it to any rider, any age. I have done the same all my life. And you know what, I "feel" that after 2, 3, 4 hours on the bike in spring, after the winter break, my driving a car gets better instantaneously. So your attitude, plus what sb said before, drive as if you were invisible, really makes a difference. Thank you!Paris_imp said:I'm 70 and I've been riding since my mid-twenties. I've never had a accident, at least so far as I can remember
For the last twenty years, I've used a headlight modulator, and I can absolutely see the difference it makes. One of the most common problems is people turning onto the road ahead of you, as if you're not there. With the modulator, I see them doing double takes and hesitating. I use a taillight braking modulator too, although I cannot say how effective it is. I used to have two bright blue LEDs on the bolts holding the license plate on. My thought was that the red and blue lights would contrast, drawing attention from those following me. Indeed it did, as I was soon pulled over by a cop and told that blue lights of any kind on my bike were illegal. He was sympathetic, but firm. He said he knew what I was trying to do, but if he caught me with them again, he'd ticket me and maybe impound the bike.
My biggest fear lately is having to stop on the crest of a hill at an intersection. I then find myself trying to wrestle with a +500 pound bike which wants to roll backward and tip over at the same time, which is not as easy as it used to be.
Perhaps my bad day is coming, or perhaps not: "There’s a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, ’tis not to come. If it be not to come, it will be now. If it be not now, yet it will come—the readiness is all."
2) Stopping on a hill? let me try to explain what I do, see if it makes sense and if you can use it. Before coming to that stop, I use the foot brake only. When the bike stops that foot remains on the brake. The bike is balanced with the left foot. If I need to role forward, a little gas and clutch, both feet stay where they were. If I need to role backwards, pull the clutch, release the foot brake a tiny bit, that's it. I can even turn the bike around on that hill/street, without any concern. (But this requires a longer description). I promise, you will NOT FEEL the weight.
Please let me know what you think!
I did not say, the first minutes from home, I said within the first three minutes after departure. And this is how the statistics were recorded. Leave home, count three minutes, stop for a burger and take off, again three minutes, stop at the train station ... I think there is more in this (focus, attention, etc.) than on which road I spend most of the time.
1) I really like what you say above, Paris, I'd recommend it to any rider, any age. I have done the same all my life. And you know what, I "feel" that after 2, 3, 4 hours on the bike in spring, after the winter break, my driving a car gets better instantaneously. So your attitude, plus what sb said before, drive as if you were invisible, really makes a difference. Thank you!Paris_imp said:I'm 70 and I've been riding since my mid-twenties. I've never had a accident, at least so far as I can remember
For the last twenty years, I've used a headlight modulator, and I can absolutely see the difference it makes. One of the most common problems is people turning onto the road ahead of you, as if you're not there. With the modulator, I see them doing double takes and hesitating. I use a taillight braking modulator too, although I cannot say how effective it is. I used to have two bright blue LEDs on the bolts holding the license plate on. My thought was that the red and blue lights would contrast, drawing attention from those following me. Indeed it did, as I was soon pulled over by a cop and told that blue lights of any kind on my bike were illegal. He was sympathetic, but firm. He said he knew what I was trying to do, but if he caught me with them again, he'd ticket me and maybe impound the bike.
My biggest fear lately is having to stop on the crest of a hill at an intersection. I then find myself trying to wrestle with a +500 pound bike which wants to roll backward and tip over at the same time, which is not as easy as it used to be.
Perhaps my bad day is coming, or perhaps not: "There’s a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, ’tis not to come. If it be not to come, it will be now. If it be not now, yet it will come—the readiness is all."
2) Stopping on a hill? let me try to explain what I do, see if it makes sense and if you can use it. Before coming to that stop, I use the foot brake only. When the bike stops that foot remains on the brake. The bike is balanced with the left foot. If I need to role forward, a little gas and clutch, both feet stay where they were. If I need to role backwards, pull the clutch, release the foot brake a tiny bit, that's it. I can even turn the bike around on that hill/street, without any concern. (But this requires a longer description). I promise, you will NOT FEEL the weight.
Please let me know what you think!
That sounds like a good idea. Your method keeps the right hand free to control the throttle. That was one of my problems, trying to feather the throttle while keeping the brake lever tight.
@j3gq, I'd be interested in the description of how to turn around, please.
Inhouse Bob
Road warrior
On the comments about the first few minutes of a ride being dangerous...
I sometimes start a ride and notice that my clutch work or stops and starts are off. Or perhaps I just don't feel 100% in the groove. I just go home and save it for another day when I am better prepared/more awake. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. The trick is to recognize the problem and admit that today is not the day.
On the subject of stopping on uphills...
Never stop close behind a car or especially a trunk on an uphill. They almost always roll backward a bit (or a lot) before getting going and if you are there, you get hit. An old friend in Texas had it happen. His bike fell sideways throwing him to the left and into the path of an oncoming truck. Rest in peace, Ivan.
I sometimes start a ride and notice that my clutch work or stops and starts are off. Or perhaps I just don't feel 100% in the groove. I just go home and save it for another day when I am better prepared/more awake. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. The trick is to recognize the problem and admit that today is not the day.
On the subject of stopping on uphills...
Never stop close behind a car or especially a trunk on an uphill. They almost always roll backward a bit (or a lot) before getting going and if you are there, you get hit. An old friend in Texas had it happen. His bike fell sideways throwing him to the left and into the path of an oncoming truck. Rest in peace, Ivan.
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
(+1) BobInhouse Bob_imp said:On the comments about the first few minutes of a ride being dangerous...
I sometimes start a ride and notice that my clutch work or stops and starts are off. Or perhaps I just don't feel 100% in the groove. I just go home and save it for another day when I am better prepared/more awake. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. The trick is to recognize the problem and admit that today is not the day.
On the subject of stopping on uphills...
Never stop close behind a car or especially a trunk on an uphill. They almost always roll backward a bit (or a lot) before getting going and if you are there, you get hit. An old friend in Texas had it happen. His bike fell sideways throwing him to the left and into the path of an oncoming truck. Rest in peace, Ivan.
Once a VW Jetta rolled backward (standard gearbox) on a congested and parked freeway overpass. The driver was yacking on a cellphone. I rolled back, but had limited space behind me as a truck was there. I honked, the Jetta stopped rolling backward. Then, it starting rolling again, I honked, it stopped. The third time the Jetta hit my CB750S. I was furious.
Yes, please do!Paris_imp said:
Okay, here it comes. Imagine you get into a dead end, end of tarmac, or other and you can't see this before you arrive at the top of the hill. Regardless of whether the road is one lane or wider, DO NEVER try to make a turn forward. Too many chances of getting stuck in a position where you cannot balance the bike any more.
Stay on the right side on the road until you arrive at the spot (uphill or at the hilltop) where you have to double back. Stop as explained before. Start rolling backwards as explained before, always your left foot on the ground. Use the right foot / brake to control your speed. Turn the handle bar slightly left and let the bike slowly role towards the center of the street, and stop when the bike is at a 90 degrees angle across the street. No power, no clutch, never at risk of loosing balance. Hold the bike there with your foot brake, turn the handle bar full right, and "lift off".
This works in any lane even if it's no wider than your wheelbase. If the description is hard to fathom, check youtube, there might be a movie.
If you can, get a training session on a wide street without any traffic. Good luck !
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Yes, please do!j3gq_imp said:
Okay, here it comes. Imagine you get into a dead end, end of tarmac, or other and you can't see this before you arrive at the top of the hill. Regardless of whether the road is one lane or wider, DO NEVER try to make a turn forward. Too many chances of getting stuck in a position where you cannot balance the bike any more.
Stay on the right side on the road until you arrive at the spot (uphill or at the hilltop) where you have to double back. Stop as explained before. Start rolling backwards as explained before, always your left foot on the ground. Use the right foot / brake to control your speed. Turn the handle bar slightly left and let the bike slowly role towards the center of the street, and stop when the bike is at a 90 degrees angle across the street. No power, no clutch, never at risk of loosing balance. Hold the bike there with your foot brake, turn the handle bar full right, and "lift off".
This works in any lane even if it's no wider than your wheelbase. If the description is hard to fathom, check youtube, there might be a movie.
If you can, get a training session on a wide street without any traffic. Good luck !
Sound reasonable.
Mmm ... thanks j3gq. I'll have to ponder how it works in a country where we drive on the left hand side of the road. I guess you just have to stop in the middle of the road or to the right if you can manage it.
@Cormanus
I never thought about this, are your streets and traffic "left", but all the motorcycle controls "regular"?
In this case it's just a little different, you got to use the hand brake instead of the foot brake: line up on the left (instead of your right), now continue as described before. All set, BUT it is a little more "mentally demanding". While using the foot brake in a right side lineup makes you use the left foot for balancing (you can't get it wrong), you could use the wrong foot in the left line-up and loose balance. So you have to focus on using the "downhill" foot for balancing the bike consistently, consciously, every time. It's not as automatic as before.
I am sorry if the description got a little complicated. It's just hard to describe. May be you need to find that youtube video.
I never thought about this, are your streets and traffic "left", but all the motorcycle controls "regular"?
In this case it's just a little different, you got to use the hand brake instead of the foot brake: line up on the left (instead of your right), now continue as described before. All set, BUT it is a little more "mentally demanding". While using the foot brake in a right side lineup makes you use the left foot for balancing (you can't get it wrong), you could use the wrong foot in the left line-up and loose balance. So you have to focus on using the "downhill" foot for balancing the bike consistently, consciously, every time. It's not as automatic as before.
I am sorry if the description got a little complicated. It's just hard to describe. May be you need to find that youtube video.
Yes, j3gq, our controls are "regular". As you say, one really has to use the front brake as you need to use the uphill foot for balancing the bike. Using the lower (or left) foot runs the risk of putting the bike on too much of an angle to be able to hold it up. I guess, when one has to do it, the trick is to try to get far enough to the right to be able to execute the turn as if one were on a right-hand drive road.
As an aside, one of the advantages of driving on the left with "standard" motorbike controls is that, when one parks beside the road, the bike leans away from the traffic rather than into it.
As an aside, one of the advantages of driving on the left with "standard" motorbike controls is that, when one parks beside the road, the bike leans away from the traffic rather than into it.
GoldOxide_imp
Road warrior
Yeah, deploying the side stand on a concrete curb in summer is far more confidence-inspiring than on the adjoining asphalt, and especially new asphalt.Cormanus_imp said:
I recently wrecked on my 2016 Moto Guzzi Eldorado. The bike was totaled. I subsequently bought another Guzzi and a CB1100 with the proceeds. The wreck was entirely my fault. The funny thing is, I had just done a trip the previous week to Monterey, Ca (from San Diego) and back down through Big Sur with no problems. But on this day, I was riding the Eldo and they were repaving the road and they had those rumble strips which are devastating on a long Cardan shaft bike. I decided to go around but, the difference in height between the new pavement and the old was 5". Once I turned into the new pavement, I crossed up and slid while watching my bike go into its death throes. This was not an accident as that implies that no one was at fault. It was my mistake. The previous time I went down was on Palomar mountain. I was going up the east side and when I came around the corner before the general store a squid did not stop at his yield sign and and I went down. Thank God I was wearing full leathers. That was not my mistake. Riding here in SoCal is dangerous especially in the heavily trafficked areas and not so bad once you get on the back roads.
Houtman_imp
Road warrior
Sorry to hear about your accident , yes repaving on one side of the road can be very dangerous if you have to move to the other side.
