2017 EX Front End Vibration

[2017EX_imp]

I previously posted about a front end vibration problem with my 2017 EX. The original dealer I took it to TWICE, whom I purchased the bike from new out of the crate, and does not have a Honda trained and certified mechanic, tried to make the symptom go away without fixing the problem and basically told me I was imagining the problem. You can read back through my original thread if you want to see what they did, or said they did. Lesson learned number one: use a dealer that has a Honda factory trained and certified mechanic. I took my bike to a second dealer that has a factory trained mechanic. The standard CB1100 has cast wheels, so a front end vibration problem is probably going to be caused by an improperly mounted tire, tire out of round and/or flat spot/s, wheel assembly out of balance, defective or damaged front wheel bearing from over torque of the front axle bolt during set up, steering head bearings improperly torqued, or a combination. That said, my EX has spoke wheels, so wheel out of true or out of round is thrown into the mix of possibilities. This second dealer pulled my front wheel and put the wheel assembly on a high speed wheel balancing machine. The assembly was found to be out of round, so next the tire was removed, and the rim spun at speed without tire. The rim was out of round by roughly 1/8" whereas spec run out is about 1mm! To my knowledge all spoke rims are hand trued, as I do not know of any machine that will true a spoke rim. At the moment, I do not know if Honda will tell the dealer to true the rim, or authorize a new rim. I told the dealer that after all I had been through with a brand new bike, I wanted a new rim, but we shall see. In any case it has been my experience over all the years, that Honda motorcycles just do not have any front end vibration, and if vibration ( some have described it as a rhythmic vibration ) is felt, something is wrong that needs to be addressed, and should be addressed before the factory warranty expires. For clarification, I am not talking about a slight buzz felt in the grips, I am talking about an up/down front end vibration, and in my case was enough to shake my arms at 40 mph.

 

[Nortoon_imp]

That's a bummer!

My EX rides smoothly and the front suspension is good. My problem are the brakes. The front squawks when coming to a stop. The rear disk and pads were replaced by Honda Canada because the pads rubbed and discoloured the disk with heat. The rear pads still drag and now the rear brake is mushy.

I will have to have a look at them when the season is over.

 

[HondaJon_imp]

Truing a spoke wheel is an art, and it is becoming very hard to find a shop that can do it right. I would insist on a new wheel and tire. My 2013 had a shimmy, front tire had a flat spot. Dealer replaced it no problem/no hassle.

 

[2017EX_imp]

I finally got my bike back, and it is now smooth as glass. The cause of the front end vibration was two fold: First, the front rim was about 1/8" out of round, and has now been trued to within .004, which is even better than spec. Second, while the front tire was supposedly within the run out spec for being round, apparently sitting in the crate for roughly 5 months caused a flat spot. After truing the rim, vibration was reduced, but still there. It was only after putting a new front tire on as well and balancing, that the vibration was eliminated. This was a legit warranty situation, and I had to be very patient and persistent to get it taken care of fully. Any Honda warranty claim requires that the problem first be verified by a Honda trained and certified mechanic, and not all Honda dealers have one. Go to http://powersports.honda.com/?cid=m...d_78271524433546_pkw_honda powersports_pmt_be , click on "find a dealer", and enter your zip code. You will get a list of all Honda dealers in your area, and each has a bunch of symbols next to their respective listings. What you are looking for is the wrench symbol surrounded by a red square with "Factory Trained". All dealers are independently owned, and are apparently not required to have a Honda trained mechanic, as dealers have to pay to send their mechanics to Honda schools to be certified. The dealer I bought my bike from new in the crate, did not have a Honda trained mechanic ( who knew?), and aside from not being qualified to verify a warranty problem did nothing to fix my vibration problem after two trips to the service department. My bike is the CA (EX Deluxe) model with spoke rim, so the rim being out of true was a factor. The SA (Standard) model has a cast mag wheel, so it is unlikely that the mag wheel out of round would be a source of vibration, leaving the tire and balancing as the likely source. In any event and from my experience: Use a Honda certified mechanic, make any warranty claims promptly within the 1 year warranty period, and be prepared to be patient and persistent with a legit warranty claim. Hope the info helps the membership avoid the heartburn I experienced. All that said, and now that the bike is right, I love my CB1100 EX.

 

[Cormanus]

Glad you got it sorted, 2017EX.

 

[SportsterDoc]

Glad you got it sorted, 2017EX.

+1

In the seventies, my CB750F was parked on an extended "sidewalk" in front of the electric motor rewind shop that I managed. It required riding up over a fairly high curb...which may have affected the front wheel spokes. As much as I worked on snugging loose spokes and truing the wheel, it was not safe past 110...too much oscillation. Not that I needed to do 110 (rarely past 90 and then for short bursts), but high speed oscillation does not usually improve and can occur at lower speeds.

That was my last street bike with laced wheels/tube type tires.

I finally got my bike back, and it is now smooth as glass. The cause of the front end vibration was two fold: First, the front rim was about 1/8" out of round, and has now been trued to within .004, which is even better than spec. Second, while the front tire was supposedly within the run out spec for being round, apparently sitting in the crate for roughly 5 months caused a flat spot. After truing the rim, vibration was reduced, but still there. It was only after putting a new front tire on as well and balancing, that the vibration was eliminated. This was a legit warranty situation, and I had to be very patient and persistent to get it taken care of fully. Any Honda warranty claim requires that the problem first be verified by a Honda trained and certified mechanic, and not all Honda dealers have one. Go to http://powersports.honda.com/?cid=m...d_78271524433546_pkw_honda powersports_pmt_be , click on "find a dealer", and enter your zip code. You will get a list of all Honda dealers in your area, and each has a bunch of symbols next to their respective listings. What you are looking for is the wrench symbol surrounded by a red square with "Factory Trained". All dealers are independently owned, and are apparently not required to have a Honda trained mechanic, as dealers have to pay to send their mechanics to Honda schools to be certified. The dealer I bought my bike from new in the crate, did not have a Honda trained mechanic ( who knew?), and aside from not being qualified to verify a warranty problem did nothing to fix my vibration problem after two trips to the service department. My bike is the CA (EX Deluxe) model with spoke rim, so the rim being out of true was a factor. The SA (Standard) model has a cast mag wheel, so it is unlikely that the mag wheel out of round would be a source of vibration, leaving the tire and balancing as the likely source. In any event and from my experience: Use a Honda certified mechanic, make any warranty claims promptly within the 1 year warranty period, and be prepared to be patient and persistent with a legit warranty claim. Hope the info helps the membership avoid the heartburn I experienced. All that said, and now that the bike is right, I love my CB1100 EX.

Good info. Glad to see that my local dealer is factory trained.

 

[SpamJ_imp]

Thanks to 2017EX, I have this exact same problem and he reached out to me and told me about it, when the bike goes in for Spring Service, I will be bringing his notes.

 

[Rocky_imp]

Interesting topic. You don't hear of this problem about a Honda very often.
Glad you got it sorted

 

[2017EX_imp]

Thought you guys might find this interesting: I pulled out my copy of the warranty repair invoice the dealer sent Honda to get reimbursed. The rim had a hop of .028, which was corrected down to .005, and .015 left to right which was corrected down to .002. Those final numbers are better than spec, but when my bike was test ridden after the wheel true, there was still vibration traced to a flat spot on the tire. The addition of the new tire completed the fix. I have owned and ridden Honda spoke wheel motorcycles, as well as other brands of spoke wheel bikes since the early 70s, and have never had this kind of problem before. As Rocky commented, a very unusual and seldom seen problem for a Honda motorcycle. The purpose here is the exchange of information so that if others encounter a similar situation it can be recognized and dealt with, definitely not to bad mouth Honda.

 

[use2b_imp]

thanks for the update , good info

 

[jtopiso_imp]

Thought you guys might find this interesting: I pulled out my copy of the warranty repair invoice the dealer sent Honda to get reimbursed. The rim had a hop of .028, which was corrected down to .005, and .015 left to right which was corrected down to .002. Those final numbers are better than spec, but when my bike was test ridden after the wheel true, there was still vibration traced to a flat spot on the tire. The addition of the new tire completed the fix. I have owned and ridden Honda spoke wheel motorcycles, as well as other brands of spoke wheel bikes since the early 70s, and have never had this kind of problem before. As Rocky commented, a very unusual and seldom seen problem for a Honda motorcycle. The purpose here is the exchange of information so that if others encounter a similar situation it can be recognized and dealt with, definitely not to bad mouth Honda.

Hi,

I am still running-in my new cb ('17RS) which has the alu-alloy wheels (no wire-spokes).
The front vibrates at around 70 km/h (45mph). Not very noticiable when accelerating through that speed, but noticeable if I keep the speed in that range (or accelerate/decelerate slowly).

I guess it's simply a weight on the rim that is off, but thanks for pointing out about the "flat spot" on the tyre. I will have it soon looked at under warranty and post here what they find.

 

[2017EX_imp]

I have been told that bikes are shipped with at least the front rim and tire assembly dismounted from the bike in the crate, If the wheel assembly is then cinched down tight on the tire, similar to compressing the front forks down for trailering a bike, then there would be a lot of pressure on one spot on the tire for several months until the bike is un crated by the dealer for set up. That might reasonably cause a flat spot on the tire. I did not feel vibration in my bike either, until I hit about 40 mph. at which point the wheel was spinning fast enough for the flat spot on the tire to cause vibration. Based on the experience with mine, I suspect that yours could be a combination of tire balancing, and a flat spot. From what I have seen over the years, frequently ( but not always ) there will be about a 20gm weight attached to a spoke directly across the wheel from the valve stem, to offset the weight of the valve stem. I now have that weight on my front rim. Given yours has a cast mag wheel the weight would be a stick on, if it is needed.

 

[LongRanger_imp]

Not a CB1100, but I rode on this for 80 miles, at speeds up to 50 mph, and had no issues. The tire wouldn't hold more than 20 psi but the ride was smooth. No vibration.

 

[the Ferret]

JTopiso... Vibrates up and down or wobbles side to side?

2017EX....CB1100s come fully assembled in the crate. AT least the 2010s thru 2015's did.

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3814&highlight=Crate

 

[2017EX_imp]

Ferret, the vibration I had was up/down, which is now gone. On one of my many calls to Honda U.S. to get everything sorted out, their rep told be front wheels are not mounted on the bike while in the crate. It would seem to me that a flat spot would more likely result from a mounted wheel being strapped down with forks compressed in the crate though.

 

[the Ferret]

I understood your problem 2017ex, but Jtopiso's decription is not so clear

Did you see the pictures in the link I posted? I have pictures of both my 13 and 14 in the crate and I assure you at least those years the front wheel does indeed come mounted on the bike in the crate.

 

[jtopiso_imp]

JTopiso... Vibrates up and down or wobbles side to side?

2017EX....CB1100s come fully assembled in the crate. AT least the 2010s thru 2015's did.

http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3814&highlight=Crate

Up and down.

 

[the Ferret]

hmm wonder why only at 45? You'd think if it was a tire balance/flat spot issue it would get worse with speed, not disappear. Let us know what the dealer finds.

 

[2017EX_imp]

I understood your problem 2017ex, but Jtopiso's decription is not so clear

Did you see the pictures in the link I posted? I have pictures of both my 13 and 14 in the crate and I assure you at least those years the front wheel does indeed come mounted on the bike in the crate.

My bad Ferret, skimmed over and did not realize it was a question for Jtopiso. Unless the crate thing has changed, you are no doubt accurate on the crate thing. Unfortunately I was not on hand to see mine come out of the crate, and had to rely on what the Honda U.S. rep told me. The accuracy of what the rep said at this point would be questionable VS. your pictures!

 

[Nortoon_imp]