2013 Optional ABS VS 2014 Deluxe ABS

[the Ferret]

Honda actually builds 3 ABS systems. The linked brakes on the gold wings and ST 1300's uses a secondary master cylinder on the left front caliper which is on a pivot and works automatically when the front end compresses. It is a very complicate system and Honda has had some trouble with it with 2 recalls on the Goldwings and many unhappy ST 1300 owners.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Ferret,

I had to run out to my garage and check out the left front fork on the ST. I never noticed that smc on there. It looks weird... Gonna have to read up on that.

 

[Elipten_imp]

I was always of the impression that the ABS systems between the 2013 and 2014 were different. I was never under the impression that the 2014 system was linked. I obviously read it some where as in my mind I believed the 2014 ABS was a little inferior but simpler than the 2013 version.


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[BestStandard_imp]

Think I found the answer. See link below, it appears the DLX may have a new "Electronically Controlled Combined ABS" system that allows use of the standard hydraulics/calipers, greatly simplifying the system while reducing unsprung weight. Since it's electronically controlled and the owners manual says the light doesn't go out until 6 mph, you probably can't test it by spinning the wheels on the center stand.

Honda Motor Co.,Ltd.｜Honda Global Corporate Website

 

[Lord Popgun]

Just so you know, the speed sensor is on the rear wheel. Well, the sensor is not...

 

[BestStandard_imp]

The ABS models have speed sensors on both wheels, ABS kicks in when the control unit senses a difference in front/back wheel speeds.

 

[the Ferret]

Think I found the answer. See link below, it appears the DLX may have a new "Electronically Controlled Combined ABS" system that allows use of the standard hydraulics/calipers, greatly simplifying the system while reducing unsprung weight. Since it's electronically controlled and the owners manual says the light doesn't go out until 6 mph, you probably can't test it by spinning the wheels on the center stand.

Honda Motor Co.,Ltd.｜Honda Global Corporate Website

Hmmm it says its used on Honda Supersport bikes which I would assume would be 600 and 1000 RR models. Doubt the CB 1100 falls under the supersport header, but I suppose it's possible. like I said I am trying to learn here as well. let me dig some more.

 

[Lord Popgun]

The ABS models have speed sensors on both wheels, ABS kicks in when the control unit senses a difference in front/back wheel speeds.

I understand. But don't both ABS and NON ABS run the speedometer from the rear?

to add: I can run the ST on the center stand and it reads speed. It has ABS.

 

[the Ferret]

Ok heres the info from Honda on the CBR1000RR and CBR600RR which fall under the Supersport heading on Hondas website

Available Combined Anti-Lock Braking System (Electronic C-ABS)
Electronically controlled C-ABS distributes brake force over both wheels, helping to maintain braking confidence in less-than-ideal conditions. The system electronically measures rider input on the brake lever and pedal, and applies only the front or rear brake in some cases or combines both brakes in other situations. (Not available on CBR1000RR SP model.)

So I think this system relates just to those models


.

 

[BestStandard_imp]

Your probably right, they would have listed it in the specs if it had the Electronically Controlled Combined ABS system... say that fast three times!

 

[bflint]

Per Honda's US Web site, it states that the 2014 CB100 Deluxe module has "combined ABS".
*
The link is: http://powersports.honda.com/2014/cb1100/options.aspx
*
Excerpt from the web site:
Features & Options
•Timeless styling, modern technology
•1140cc DOHC PGM-FI engine
•Disc brakes, adjustable suspension
•Adds: Combined ABS, .5 gallon larger fuel tank, 4-2 Exhaust
*
So while the CB1100 is not a super sport model, it still looks like it has some type of "Electronically Controlled Combined ABS".

 

[Xyzzy_imp]

Read this thread and you will be glad that you don't have the (very expensive) C-ABS that the CBR1000RR has. When it works it is very good, but when it doesn't…

C-ABS issues

My first CBR1000RR had the C-ABS battery failure problem. Fortunately, it did not develop the other (more serious) problems. My second CBR1000RR I specifically bought without C-ABS due to the ongoing issues.

Edit: The CB1100 ABS model uses one master modulator unit which is a hybrid of the two different systems in the diagram above. I haven't tested a CB1100 ABS model so I don't know if the front brakes can activate the rear brakes. If they do, then it is the fancier system. It should be easy to test for if someone is interested. Read this review to see how that system feels under use: Ash On Bikes | Straight Talking

 

[Ridem32_imp]

The M/C on the left fork is not a M/C it a anti dive device that activates with the rear brake petal. It keeps the front end from diving down during hard braking! No front suspension! I took mine apart drilled a hole in a nickel ( nickel acts as a spacer) now I have front suspension all the time. Sit on your bike push rear brake petal and push down on forks! Not sure about the ST but goldwing for sure. Over time it can blow out the left fork seal.

 

[the Ferret]

The Go.dwing and ST both have a secondary master cylinder bolted to the left front fork leg. The suspension working is what pivots the linkage and applies the linked rear brake when the front brake is applied. There have been 2 recalls on the SMC (secondary master cylinder) on the Goldwings, but no such recall for the ST even though owners have had issues with them. The SMC for the ST was re- designed in 08 I believe.

The CB has no SMC and uses a completely different system than the Goldwing or the ST 1300.

Honda's Supersport bikes like the CBR1000R use yet another ABS system.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Ferret on the ST boards the re-designed SMC appears to be just a change to the water drainage hole shape to help keep it from clogging up.

Mike, so where exactly did you put the drilled nickel? I looked at the parts list to see the parts you are talking about and am curious.

 

[the Ferret]

Yes but unfortunately thee are still guys having issues with the " new " units.

We don't have that system on the CB 1100's thankfully.

 

[Ridem32_imp]

Popgun on a goldwing on the left side mounted to the left fork is a cylinder that that locks up the left fork leg when the rear brake pedal is applied. Take the top half off just 2 bolts and drill a nickel in the center and bolt back together with same bolts. They sell a kit on ebay but for 5 cents it works great. I'm not sure about the ST. On a goldwing its called a anti dive. And when it works it rides like crap no front suspension at all.

 

[Lord Popgun]

Ridem,

Ok, I see now. I thought you meant the CB ABS and was looking at that part diagram.

I read some on the Goldwing boards about this to see how it worked and I see how the nickel trick works. It appears that it is the cheapest(cost 5 cents!) and best way to take care of your problem.

 

[LongRanger_imp]

I've found the specs on the Honda website to not always be accurate. For example, it states the exhaust on the '04 CB50R is a "single expansion chamber." This is true for the two-stroke NSR50, but not for the four-stroke CB50R. The bike actually has a dual headpipe, dual exhaust setup (single cylinder, 4-valve head, one headpipe and one exhaust pipe per valve). So the website claim that the '14 DLX has combined ABS might simply be an error or oversight as well.