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Very much appreciate all these inputs. Now, my personal take-away ... can I share ? If you ride a CB with ABS, and you like to do your own maintenance, don't assume it'll be fine because you did it on earlier bikes without ABS. There is no reason not to do the bleeding of your brakes and the ABS modulator. But this requires careful tests and rides after the work is done. If you don't have such diagnostic system, a pull on the brake lever is not enough (checking resistance).
You can only be sure that the system is properly bled after all valves and chambers inside the ABS modulator have opened once and for long enough. If not during the bleeding process, then certainly before you hit traffic. For lack of better insight, you can only be sure after ABS kicked in several times (front and rear). You do not want to find out on a busy road that there was a big bubble of air which starts moving into your lines at the worst moment.
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(12-18-2021, 08:06 PM)j3gq_imp Wrote: Very much appreciate all these inputs. Now, my personal take-away ... can I share ? If you ride a CB with ABS, and you like to do your own maintenance, don't assume it'll be fine because you did it on earlier bikes without ABS. There is no reason not to do the bleeding of your brakes and the ABS modulator. But this requires careful tests and rides after the work is done. If you don't have such diagnostic system, a pull on the brake lever is not enough (checking resistance).
You can only be sure that the system is properly bled after all valves and chambers inside the ABS modulator have opened once and for long enough. If not during the bleeding process, then certainly before you hit traffic. For lack of better insight, you can only be sure after ABS kicked in several times (front and rear). You do not want to find out on a busy road that there was a big bubble of air which starts moving into your lines at the worst moment.
Just bleed through fresh fluid according to your procedure until there are no more bubbles present in the new fluid at the output drain. This is not a profound statement.
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GO, try think about somebody who takes all the time needed, and reads all the posts in this thread - one after one. What is this imaginary person gonna make of your last two sentences ?
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Don ' t worry , be happy !
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(12-19-2021, 12:54 AM)j3gq_imp Wrote: GO, try think about somebody who takes all the time needed, and reads all the posts in this thread - one after one. What is this imaginary person gonna make of your last two sentences ?
I haven't spoken to a ghost recently, however, what is common to the offered bleed procedures is my previous second last sentence.
Also worth mentioning, this is not a profound statement.
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May I try to summarise at this point?
j3gq has asked whether the brake fluid in ABS systems on post 2013 models needs to be changed differently to ensure bleeding removes all air from the ABS modulator.
Others have asserted that bleeding the brakes normally will remove air from all parts of the ABS braking system.
j3gq has questioned whether people are certain that is actually the case.
Are they?
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Perhaps there is no air in the ABS modulator when you just replace the fluid in the system.
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(12-19-2021, 06:12 AM)Cormanus_imp Wrote: May I try to summarise at this point?
j3gq has asked whether the brake fluid in ABS systems on post 2013 models needs to be changed differently to ensure bleeding removes all air from the ABS modulator.
Others have asserted that bleeding the brakes normally will remove air from all parts of the ABS braking system.
j3gq has questioned whether people are certain that is actually the case.
Are they?
Who ya' gonna believe?
The question has been raised on other forums:
[url=https://advrider.com/f/threads/abs-bleeding-any-different-from-non-abs.742319/]ABS bleeding. Any different from non ABS?
[url=https://ducatiforum.com/threads/brake-bleeding-any-different-on-a-abs-bike.2445/]Brake Bleeding - Any Different on a ABS Bike?
I didn't post either of those because they favor my viewpoint--I have no idea. Whenever faced with a tech issue, I read all I can on the net, my service manuel...and then I confirm anything I've learned with my trustworthy mechanic brother who knows how to balance money-time-what-can-you-live-with-what-not-to-ignore. If I'm still not sure, I take the issue to an independent mc shop I trust and let it go.
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(12-17-2021, 12:09 PM)max_imp Wrote: Peter thanks for the explanation and the effort to take pictures etc.
For some reason this automotive diagnostic stuff has caught my attention and i can follow most of the methods, tools and engineering that goes into finding out why the car won't start at all if the engine temp sensor is defect, even in the middle of a snow storm, it just won't.
This new field is very fascinating and rewarding in more ways than one and it takes a lot of experience to be successful at it and it's a moving target as far as i understand.
So i've build a simple automotive scope which also runs on an android tablet ( thanks for the info, i found it's Hyundai proprietary software and very helpful ) and putz around with it to find out for myself about pulses, timing and wave forms, very nice to play with these things, all i need now is an unreliable vehicle to repair.......not easy with Honda's you know!
Cheers as always
Yes, you are correct...I think Honda deliberately shows less than minimum 
..................
Here is my experience with HECU/ABS units...the replacement modules are already filled with fluid from a manufacture.
The few ABS modules in the cars that I have replaced so far have never had to run the pump to bleed air.
Once, for testing reasons, I replaced the ABS module without bleeding the brake system before going for a test drive and was surprised by the effectiveness and functionality of the brakes, including "kicking" ABS.
Also, before replacing the master cylinder, I will first prime it with fluid and then bleed the entire system without running the ABS pump.
The bottom line:
*Over the past few decades, as part of the standard procedure, I have bled/flushed the ABS hydraulic system in the same way as without ABS, using either a vacuum or pressure pump, or by simply pressing the brake pedal and cracking loose the bleeders to purge air.
I enhance ABS flushing procedure by activating an ABS pump.
The pressure bleeder working pressure is about 10-15(max) PSI, unless hybrid car brake system is dealt with, then the bleeding working pressure is much higher - always consult with a service manual.
* Only once I had a car which came from a small shop with a bit of a sponge brake pedal.
I don't know what was done before .... but to bring the ABS equipped hydraulic system back to its OEM performance, I had to start and bleed the ABS pump first and then bleed the entire system in the conventional way.
How I may test the ABS functionality of my CB? I'll take my bike out onto the sandy road and at low speed I lock-up the front and rear wheels independently.
If an ABS system fails, a conventional one should be working just fine.
The ABS is a beautiful thing, it does not shorten braking distance but prevents wheels from lock up, enabling a driver to maneuver out an obstacle ....don't tinker if there is nothing wrong with it.
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(12-21-2021, 09:45 AM)peterbaron_imp Wrote: (12-17-2021, 12:09 PM)max_imp Wrote: Peter thanks for the explanation and the effort to take pictures etc.
For some reason this automotive diagnostic stuff has caught my attention and i can follow most of the methods, tools and engineering that goes into finding out why the car won't start at all if the engine temp sensor is defect, even in the middle of a snow storm, it just won't.
This new field is very fascinating and rewarding in more ways than one and it takes a lot of experience to be successful at it and it's a moving target as far as i understand.
So i've build a simple automotive scope which also runs on an android tablet ( thanks for the info, i found it's Hyundai proprietary software and very helpful ) and putz around with it to find out for myself about pulses, timing and wave forms, very nice to play with these things, all i need now is an unreliable vehicle to repair.......not easy with Honda's you know!
Cheers as always
Yes, you are correct...I think Honda deliberately shows less than minimum
..................
Here is my experience with HECU/ABS units...the replacement modules are already filled with fluid from a manufacture.
The few ABS modules in the cars that I have replaced so far have never had to run the pump to bleed air.
Once, for testing reasons, I replaced the ABS module without bleeding the brake system before going for a test drive and was surprised by the effectiveness and functionality of the brakes, including "kicking" ABS.
Also, before replacing the master cylinder, I will first prime it with fluid and then bleed the entire system without running the ABS pump.
The bottom line:
*Over the past few decades, as part of the standard procedure, I have bled/flushed the ABS hydraulic system in the same way as without ABS, using either a vacuum or pressure pump, or by simply pressing the brake pedal and cracking loose the bleeders to purge air.
I enhance ABS flushing procedure by activating an ABS pump.
The pressure bleeder working pressure is about 10-15(max) PSI, unless hybrid car brake system is dealt with, then the bleeding working pressure is much higher - always consult with a service manual.
* Only once I had a car which came from a small shop with a bit of a sponge brake pedal.
I don't know what was done before .... but to bring the ABS equipped hydraulic system back to its OEM performance, I had to start and bleed the ABS pump first and then bleed the entire system in the conventional way.
How I may test the ABS functionality of my CB? I'll take my bike out onto the sandy road and at low speed I lock-up the front and rear wheels independently.
If an ABS system fails, a conventional one should be working just fine.
The ABS is a beautiful thing, it does not shorten braking distance but prevents wheels from lock up, enabling a driver to maneuver out an obstacle ....don't tinker if there is nothing wrong with it.
There is plenty of practice opportunities on the roads now [url=http://cb1100forum.com/forum/member.php?action=profile&uid=3454]PB, and increase immensely as temperature drops below 0C. 
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