Bleeding brakes with ABS

[j3gq_imp]

I've checked the how-to section, but cannot find a proper explanation of bleeding a model with ABS (no combined braking). May be I am missing is in my searches (did only find one thread on the early 2013 model with C-ABS). I know that on some bikes with ABS the brake fluid change requires some sort of workshop support equipment (like a controller which connects to ABS modulator). That doesn't seem to be the case on the CB1100.
The service manual shows the ABS modulator in two sketches, but otherwise doesn't mention it - no extra steps ???

Would appreciate any insight or thread links related to the subject.

[peterbaron]

What about service link, I sent you a little while ago??
Two hydraulic circuits for '14 CB:
front brakes = brake lever, LF caliper, then RF..to be technically correct
rear brakes - brake pedal.
I use vacuum or pressure type bleeders.

First, suck out all the brake (or clutch) fluid, fill up again with fresh DOT4, then start bleeding while watching and topping up reservoir.
When completed, fluid level should equel original reservoir level (assuming there are no external leaks).
At home, I use my vacuum bleeder but one can do bleeding without it = conventional method...by pumping lever or pedal...
If using either one, vacuum or pressure bleeders, I keep pumping brakes at the same time, done thousand brake/clutch flashes on cars and my bikes.

General info: After flushing brakes, I energize ABS pump and repeat bleeding process again to get rid of 99.99% old fluid.

[Houtman_imp]

Very easy to do on a 2013 ABS model , I used a $ 20 vacuum bleeder with my air compressor . ( also very useful for sucking out other fluids like oil etc. ) Use fresh CLEAR brake fluid , than it is easy to see when the old oil is gone.

[GoldOxide_imp]

I have a one way bleeder valve. Works perfectly.


(but I have never used it)

[Whoops]

Very easy to do on a 2013 ABS model , I used a $ 20 vacuum bleeder with my air compressor . ( also very useful for sucking out other fluids like oil etc. ) Use fresh CLEAR brake fluid , than it is easy to see when the old oil is gone.

But don’t you have to activate the ABS in order for it to cycle out the fluid leading to the ABS pump? How do you do that without having to jam the brakes and bleed a second time?

[j3gq_imp]

What about service link, I sent you a little while ago??
Two hydraulic circuits for '14 CB:
front brakes = brake lever, LF caliper, then RF..to be technically correct
rear brakes - brake pedal.
I use vacuum or pressure type bleeders.

First, suck out all the brake (or clutch) fluid, fill up again with fresh DOT4, then start bleeding while watching and topping up reservoir.
When completed, fluid level should equel original reservoir level (assuming there are no external leaks).
At home, I use my vacuum bleeder but one can do bleeding without it = conventional method...by pumping lever or pedal...
If using either one, vacuum or pressure bleeders, I keep pumping brakes at the same time, done thousand brake/clutch flashes on cars and my bikes.

General info: After flushing brakes, I energize ABS pump and repeat bleeding process again to get rid of 99.99% old fluid.

Hi Peter, yes, of course I checked the link / manual you sent me. (thanks again !) What concerns me is the way it is presented in the manual. The sketches shows the ABS modul(ator), but the text doesn't mention ABS at all. Just one procedure for all ... Sure this could be right, after all it's coming from Honda. But the manual does not distinguish between ABS models and non-ABS. I find this strange. Unless one might "want to" assume that all fluid switches (valves) inside the modulator are open when you turn the ignition off.

Could it simply be a problem with the manual ? I have found other problems in the manual (which often look like copy / paste), so it's hard to be sure.
If some forum member worked or still works in a Honda shop ... his insight might be very valuable.

[max]

What about service link, I sent you a little while ago??
Two hydraulic circuits for '14 CB:
front brakes = brake lever, LF caliper, then RF..to be technically correct
rear brakes - brake pedal.
I use vacuum or pressure type bleeders.

First, suck out all the brake (or clutch) fluid, fill up again with fresh DOT4, then start bleeding while watching and topping up reservoir.
When completed, fluid level should equel original reservoir level (assuming there are no external leaks).
At home, I use my vacuum bleeder but one can do bleeding without it = conventional method...by pumping lever or pedal...
If using either one, vacuum or pressure bleeders, I keep pumping brakes at the same time, done thousand brake/clutch flashes on cars and my bikes.

General info: After flushing brakes, I energize ABS pump and repeat bleeding process again to get rid of 99.99% old fluid.

You got me thinking about this part Peter, could be the wording of it but it suggests that there is an electrical way to operate the abs pump, i'm sure i read too much into it but could you clarify this?

And for others; the abs module is only an intervention in both break systems, normally similar to refreshing the fluid but more prone to air buildup in the lines due to the effect that unlike standard systems the air is not automatically able to rise through a passage at the highest point and escape into the fluid container but can build up in a high point in the brake lines.
The only way to clear this is a quick flush so the fluid is faster which expels the trapped air.

[GoldOxide_imp]

What about service link, I sent you a little while ago??
Two hydraulic circuits for '14 CB:
front brakes = brake lever, LF caliper, then RF..to be technically correct
rear brakes - brake pedal.
I use vacuum or pressure type bleeders.

First, suck out all the brake (or clutch) fluid, fill up again with fresh DOT4, then start bleeding while watching and topping up reservoir.
When completed, fluid level should equel original reservoir level (assuming there are no external leaks).
At home, I use my vacuum bleeder but one can do bleeding without it = conventional method...by pumping lever or pedal...
If using either one, vacuum or pressure bleeders, I keep pumping brakes at the same time, done thousand brake/clutch flashes on cars and my bikes.

General info: After flushing brakes, I energize ABS pump and repeat bleeding process again to get rid of 99.99% old fluid.

You got me thinking about this part Peter, could be the wording of it but it suggests that there is an electrical way to operate the abs pump, i'm sure i read too much into it but could you clarify this?

And for others; the abs module is only an intervention in both break systems, normally similar to refreshing the fluid but more prone to air buildup in the lines due to the effect that unlike standard systems the air is not automatically able to rise through a passage at the highest point and escape into the fluid container but can build up in a high point in the brake lines.
The only way to clear this is a quick flush so the fluid is faster which expels the trapped air.

I think this would be the way to go, if I ever get around removing the coffee from my lines.

[j3gq_imp]

What about service link, I sent you a little while ago??
Two hydraulic circuits for '14 CB:
front brakes = brake lever, LF caliper, then RF..to be technically correct
rear brakes - brake pedal.
I use vacuum or pressure type bleeders.

First, suck out all the brake (or clutch) fluid, fill up again with fresh DOT4, then start bleeding while watching and topping up reservoir.
When completed, fluid level should equel original reservoir level (assuming there are no external leaks).
At home, I use my vacuum bleeder but one can do bleeding without it = conventional method...by pumping lever or pedal...
If using either one, vacuum or pressure bleeders, I keep pumping brakes at the same time, done thousand brake/clutch flashes on cars and my bikes.

General info: After flushing brakes, I energize ABS pump and repeat bleeding process again to get rid of 99.99% old fluid.

You got me thinking about this part Peter, could be the wording of it but it suggests that there is an electrical way to operate the abs pump, i'm sure i read too much into it but could you clarify this?

And for others; the abs module is only an intervention in both break systems, normally similar to refreshing the fluid but more prone to air buildup in the lines due to the effect that unlike standard systems the air is not automatically able to rise through a passage at the highest point and escape into the fluid container but can build up in a high point in the brake lines.
The only way to clear this is a quick flush so the fluid is faster which expels the trapped air.

IMHO air bubbles in narrow, kinky lines like those in a brake system do not rise or move at all, due to gravity. They stick in corners, and slowly moving liquid can even pass around them without taking them along. In so far, the idea of quick(er) flushing may be right. But I have seen similar cases in lab equipment ( mostly transparent pipes) where even this doesn’t help - only high pressure or cycling pressure input gets them out. The ABS mod does certainly provide more / many traps for bubble. That is the concern underlying this thread.
The question remains, is a special procedure or special support equipment needed to bleed our brakes?

[max]

What about service link, I sent you a little while ago??
Two hydraulic circuits for '14 CB:
front brakes = brake lever, LF caliper, then RF..to be technically correct
rear brakes - brake pedal.
I use vacuum or pressure type bleeders.

First, suck out all the brake (or clutch) fluid, fill up again with fresh DOT4, then start bleeding while watching and topping up reservoir.
When completed, fluid level should equel original reservoir level (assuming there are no external leaks).
At home, I use my vacuum bleeder but one can do bleeding without it = conventional method...by pumping lever or pedal...
If using either one, vacuum or pressure bleeders, I keep pumping brakes at the same time, done thousand brake/clutch flashes on cars and my bikes.

General info: After flushing brakes, I energize ABS pump and repeat bleeding process again to get rid of 99.99% old fluid.

You got me thinking about this part Peter, could be the wording of it but it suggests that there is an electrical way to operate the abs pump, i'm sure i read too much into it but could you clarify this?

And for others; the abs module is only an intervention in both break systems, normally similar to refreshing the fluid but more prone to air buildup in the lines due to the effect that unlike standard systems the air is not automatically able to rise through a passage at the highest point and escape into the fluid container but can build up in a high point in the brake lines.
The only way to clear this is a quick flush so the fluid is faster which expels the trapped air.

IMHO air bubbles in narrow, kinky lines like those in a brake system do not rise or move at all, due to gravity. They stick in corners, and slowly moving liquid can even pass around them without taking them along. In so far, the idea of quick(er) flushing may be right. But I have seen similar cases in lab equipment ( mostly transparent pipes) where even this doesn’t help - only high pressure or cycling pressure input gets them out. The ABS mod does certainly provide more / many traps for bubble. That is the concern underlying this thread.
The question remains, is a special procedure or special support equipment needed to bleed our brakes?

IMHO air bubbles in narrow, kinky lines like those in a brake system do not rise or move at all, due to gravity. They stick in corners, and slowly moving liquid can even pass around them without taking them along. In so far, the idea of quick(er) flushing may be right. But I have seen similar cases in lab equipment ( mostly transparent pipes) where even this doesn’t help - only high pressure or cycling pressure input gets them out. The ABS mod does certainly provide more / many traps for bubble. That is the concern underlying this thread.


The question remains, is a special procedure or special support equipment needed to bleed our brakes?
Peter's reply answers your question perfectly;

"At home, I use my vacuum bleeder but one can do bleeding without it = conventional method...by pumping lever or pedal..."

Searching "brake fluid" in this forum will provide you with 8 pages of good info past and present of member's experiences on this subject, provide answers to failing abs brakes, speed bleeders, vacuum systems and much more

Best way to find out is by doing what we are all doing and find out why we are recommending the same methods backed up by our own experiences and tools.