Best rev range

[1973cb750]

my 600 hits 12,500-1300 at redline i regularly take it their and it has lived fine for 62,000+ miles i suspect the 1100 is built close to as good being a honda a few revs will not hurt its low redline also i have noticed mine likes to shift better above 3k so i do that just smoother it seams

[tommymck]

I don't know about operating near redline vs engine life, but in my experience pretty much everything else about a bike gives up the ghost before the engine in any case. I just don't find it practical to operate anywhere near redline on the street. I don't consider avoiding twice the legal speed limit as qualifying for "old lady driven". And while a tear down might or might not reveal less engine wear, I'm very skeptical that operating the bike mostly below 5K will reduce the practical engine life in comparison with a bike operated more aggressively.

[Cormanus]

There must surely be some research on the question.

[the Ferret]

One would think that there is some microscopic wear on moving parts with every single revolution of an engine, ring wear against the cylinder wall, valve wear against the seat, ball wear against a race etc. If there was, and I believe there is, (because it only makes sense that when you rub or pound metal objects together there is going to be wear,) that one motor that is turning 8,000 rpms is wearing twice as much as one turning 4,000 rpms in the same amount of time. One is turning 8000 revolutions every minute while the other is only turning 4000 revolutions in that same minute.

Now a modern motor, like the CB 1100, may be able to turn a billion revolutions before wear begins to take it's toll, but eventually the toll from each revolution is going to add up.

Having raced 2 stroke motocrossers for 10 years, I remember the toll constant high rpms took on the pistons, rings and cylinders of those bikes. And I hear stories of how much maintenance and top end rebuilding is required of modern 4 stroke motocross bikes which are run at a constant high rpm.

I'm no mechanical engineer or metallurgist but some things just seem to make sense to me.

I certainly don't think anyone here is going to subject a CB 1100 to excessive wear by running it to redline occasionally

EDIT

For grins I just googled and read an article by Revzilla "Is it safe to run my engine to redline"

and they said absolutely, run it to redline with impunity it won't hurt it .... but came with this caveat which is what I was saying

You're wearing **it out faster and wasting fuel

If you’re not racing, why not put the bike in a higher gear and save the stress on the drivetrain and burn less of your gas? An engine physically turns the crank more times at high revs than at lower ones. Granted, they may be easier turns due to gearing and momentum, but friction is cumulative. You only get so many revolutions before it's rebuild time. Why hasten the demise?

[PowerDubs_imp]

I don't know about operating near redline vs engine life, but in my experience pretty much everything else about a bike gives up the ghost before the engine in any case. I just don't find it practical to operate anywhere near redline on the street. I don't consider avoiding twice the legal speed limit as qualifying for "old lady driven". And while a tear down might or might not reveal less engine wear, I'm very skeptical that operating the bike mostly below 5K will reduce the practical engine life in comparison with a bike operated more aggressively.

Two sides to that coin- reality VS real life - and many often confuse it.

Reality- the vast majority of motorcycles never see 20k-25k.

That is real life. Reality of physics / fueling though- even at that if torn down- There IS a difference.

The biggest wear on ANY engine is done at cold start- oil needs time (and heat) to move to lubricate- followed closely behind by metal expansion.

Modern engines with fuel injection are good enough that start the bike- give it a minute while you put on your gloves or fasten your helmet- no need to 'warm up'- in fact modern engines run soo lean for emissions standards that you *help* it warm up by riding -GENTLY- low rpm, low throttle, low load- and give it a good 5 minutes before you loosen your wrist. More time in cold weather. One of my cars- a 12 cyl- has over 12 quarts of oil and despite it having an aluminum block as opposed to iron (heats up faster) I can still start it on a coldish day (35-40F) and roll right from a hotel to the highway- get up to speed (say 70-75mph) and it STILL takes 15-20 minutes at that speed, that throttle, to reach operating oil temp).

After that though- as far as operational- wear / compression loss (again proper temps and oil change) is NOT from occasional RPM / LOAD- and anyone that understands engines understand it is not only not harmful - it is HELPFUL!!


You all are apparently not understanding- I am NOT saying beat the dog- NOT saying ride it HARD all the time. I *AM* saying that getting on it- once up to temperature- and proper oil changes, a few times a week is *absolutely* 1100% better than not doing that.

Carbon build-up is ABRASIVE- go look in your BBQ grill- see it, feel it.

Carbon build-up blocks injector orifice.

Carbon build-up clogs cats.

Carbon build-up fouls spark plugs.

Carbon build-up on valves ruins sealing, increases weight, causes hot spots.

Carbon build-up on piston crowns / chamber heads- causes hot-spots,

Carbon build-up in piston ring lands stops them from moving freely, evenly, fully.


HEAT & INCREASED FUEL FLOW *CLEANS* your engine.

[GoldOxide_imp]

Internal combustion engines is, by nature of the implementation, are designed to wear down.

Run it faster, hotter and harder, and it will with some proportion, wear faster.

I believe it is that simple.

[PowerDubs_imp]

One would think that there is some microscopic wear on moving parts with every single revolution of an engine, ring wear against the cylinder wall, valve wear against the seat, ball wear against a race etc. If there was, and I believe there is, (because it only makes sense that when you rub or pound metal objects together there is going to be wear,) that one motor that is turning 8,000 rpms is wearing twice as much as one turning 4,000 rpms in the same amount of time. One is turning 8000 revolutions every minute while the other is only turning 4000 revolutions in that same minute.

Now a modern motor, like the CB 1100, may be able to turn a billion revolutions before wear begins to take it's toll, but eventually the toll from each revolution is going to add up.

Having raced 2 stroke motocrossers for 10 years, I remember the toll constant high rpms took on the pistons, rings and cylinders of those bikes. And I hear stories of how much maintenance and top end rebuilding is required of modern 4 stroke motocross bikes which are run at a constant high rpm.

I'm no mechanical engineer or metallurgist but some things just seem to make sense to me.

I certainly don't think anyone here is going to subject a CB 1100 to excessive wear by running it to redline occasionally

EDIT

For grins I just googled and read an article by Revzilla "Is it safe to run my engine to redline"

and they said absolutely, run it to redline with impunity it won't hurt it .... but came with this caveat which is what I was saying

You're wearing **it out faster and wasting fuel

If you’re not racing, why not put the bike in a higher gear and save the stress on the drivetrain and burn less of your gas? An engine physically turns the crank more times at high revs than at lower ones. Granted, they may be easier turns due to gearing and momentum, but friction is cumulative. You only get so many revolutions before it's rebuild time. Why hasten the demise?

There is- and the more carbon buildup the more wear.

One would think that there is some microscopic wear on moving parts with every single revolution of an engine, ring wear against the cylinder wall, valve wear against the seat, ball wear against a race etc. If there was, and I believe there is, (because it only makes sense that when you rub or pound metal objects together there is going to be wear,) that one motor that is turning 8,000 rpms is wearing twice as much as one turning 4,000 rpms in the same amount of time. One is turning 8000 revolutions every minute while the other is only turning 4000 revolutions in that same minute.

Now a modern motor, like the CB 1100, may be able to turn a billion revolutions before wear begins to take it's toll, but eventually the toll from each revolution is going to add up.

Having raced 2 stroke motocrossers for 10 years, I remember the toll constant high rpms took on the pistons, rings and cylinders of those bikes. And I hear stories of how much maintenance and top end rebuilding is required of modern 4 stroke motocross bikes which are run at a constant high rpm.

I'm no mechanical engineer or metallurgist but some things just seem to make sense to me.

I certainly don't think anyone here is going to subject a CB 1100 to excessive wear by running it to redline occasionally

EDIT

For grins I just googled and read an article by Revzilla "Is it safe to run my engine to redline"

and they said absolutely, run it to redline with impunity it won't hurt it .... but came with this caveat which is what I was saying

You're wearing **it out faster and wasting fuel

If you’re not racing, why not put the bike in a higher gear and save the stress on the drivetrain and burn less of your gas? An engine physically turns the crank more times at high revs than at lower ones. Granted, they may be easier turns due to gearing and momentum, but friction is cumulative. You only get so many revolutions before it's rebuild time. Why hasten the demise?

You are conflating a doubling of RPM with a doubling of wear and nothing could be further from the truth. Trust in oil film strength. If the engine is running the right oil, that oil is clean, and up to temp- you are NOT making more metal to metal contact. A case of just enough to be dangerous- making assumptions and creating more false info on the internet. Please stop.

One would think that there is some microscopic wear on moving parts with every single revolution of an engine, ring wear against the cylinder wall, valve wear against the seat, ball wear against a race etc. If there was, and I believe there is, (because it only makes sense that when you rub or pound metal objects together there is going to be wear,) that one motor that is turning 8,000 rpms is wearing twice as much as one turning 4,000 rpms in the same amount of time. One is turning 8000 revolutions every minute while the other is only turning 4000 revolutions in that same minute.

Now a modern motor, like the CB 1100, may be able to turn a billion revolutions before wear begins to take it's toll, but eventually the toll from each revolution is going to add up.

Having raced 2 stroke motocrossers for 10 years, I remember the toll constant high rpms took on the pistons, rings and cylinders of those bikes. And I hear stories of how much maintenance and top end rebuilding is required of modern 4 stroke motocross bikes which are run at a constant high rpm.

I'm no mechanical engineer or metallurgist but some things just seem to make sense to me.

I certainly don't think anyone here is going to subject a CB 1100 to excessive wear by running it to redline occasionally

EDIT

For grins I just googled and read an article by Revzilla "Is it safe to run my engine to redline"

and they said absolutely, run it to redline with impunity it won't hurt it .... but came with this caveat which is what I was saying

You're wearing **it out faster and wasting fuel

If you’re not racing, why not put the bike in a higher gear and save the stress on the drivetrain and burn less of your gas? An engine physically turns the crank more times at high revs than at lower ones. Granted, they may be easier turns due to gearing and momentum, but friction is cumulative. You only get so many revolutions before it's rebuild time. Why hasten the demise?

I too have raced and rebuilt countless 2 strokes over the years- and can tell you that they are NOT damaged from RPM- but MUCH more likely from a combination of everything not yet up to heat combined with questionable fueling both on the oil mixture and actual fuel. Pistons expand MUCh faster than a cylinder. Extremely common as example to have cyl wall scoring, broken ring lands, melted crowns. Just because they failed doesn't mean it's because of RPM or a hard hand (other than a hard hand before everything was up to temp.)

As mentioned earlier - temp takes a LOT of time before balls to the wall should be done- and on a race bike- time is money- a blown top end is a consumable.

Same with modern 4-stoke dirt bikes- given their inherent disadvantage of half the power pulses of a 2-stroke- they need every trick in the book to make power- lighter weight EVERYTHING in the engine= thinner, less life span.

Know what the scenario is when trying to give a data point for an argument.

One would think that there is some microscopic wear on moving parts with every single revolution of an engine, ring wear against the cylinder wall, valve wear against the seat, ball wear against a race etc. If there was, and I believe there is, (because it only makes sense that when you rub or pound metal objects together there is going to be wear,) that one motor that is turning 8,000 rpms is wearing twice as much as one turning 4,000 rpms in the same amount of time. One is turning 8000 revolutions every minute while the other is only turning 4000 revolutions in that same minute.

Now a modern motor, like the CB 1100, may be able to turn a billion revolutions before wear begins to take it's toll, but eventually the toll from each revolution is going to add up.

Having raced 2 stroke motocrossers for 10 years, I remember the toll constant high rpms took on the pistons, rings and cylinders of those bikes. And I hear stories of how much maintenance and top end rebuilding is required of modern 4 stroke motocross bikes which are run at a constant high rpm.

I'm no mechanical engineer or metallurgist but some things just seem to make sense to me.

I certainly don't think anyone here is going to subject a CB 1100 to excessive wear by running it to redline occasionally

EDIT

For grins I just googled and read an article by Revzilla "Is it safe to run my engine to redline"

and they said absolutely, run it to redline with impunity it won't hurt it .... but came with this caveat which is what I was saying

You're wearing **it out faster and wasting fuel

If you’re not racing, why not put the bike in a higher gear and save the stress on the drivetrain and burn less of your gas? An engine physically turns the crank more times at high revs than at lower ones. Granted, they may be easier turns due to gearing and momentum, but friction is cumulative. You only get so many revolutions before it's rebuild time. Why hasten the demise?

Nah. Not in the case what we are discussing- get on it a few times a week once warmed up.

A year or 2 ago there was a low mile (2k?) set of pistons from a wrecked CB1100 on Ebay- their crowns were horribly black and coated. I know why- what's your excuse?

One would think that there is some microscopic wear on moving parts with every single revolution of an engine, ring wear against the cylinder wall, valve wear against the seat, ball wear against a race etc. If there was, and I believe there is, (because it only makes sense that when you rub or pound metal objects together there is going to be wear,) that one motor that is turning 8,000 rpms is wearing twice as much as one turning 4,000 rpms in the same amount of time. One is turning 8000 revolutions every minute while the other is only turning 4000 revolutions in that same minute.

Now a modern motor, like the CB 1100, may be able to turn a billion revolutions before wear begins to take it's toll, but eventually the toll from each revolution is going to add up.

Having raced 2 stroke motocrossers for 10 years, I remember the toll constant high rpms took on the pistons, rings and cylinders of those bikes. And I hear stories of how much maintenance and top end rebuilding is required of modern 4 stroke motocross bikes which are run at a constant high rpm.

I'm no mechanical engineer or metallurgist but some things just seem to make sense to me.

I certainly don't think anyone here is going to subject a CB 1100 to excessive wear by running it to redline occasionally

EDIT

For grins I just googled and read an article by Revzilla "Is it safe to run my engine to redline"

and they said absolutely, run it to redline with impunity it won't hurt it .... but came with this caveat which is what I was saying

You're wearing **it out faster and wasting fuel

If you’re not racing, why not put the bike in a higher gear and save the stress on the drivetrain and burn less of your gas? An engine physically turns the crank more times at high revs than at lower ones. Granted, they may be easier turns due to gearing and momentum, but friction is cumulative. You only get so many revolutions before it's rebuild time. Why hasten the demise?

Because you are missing the point- again NOT talking about beating the snot out of it. Again- taking it WOT to higher RPM does NOT mean increased friction within design parameters. Talking about getting on in once in every few rides is better than not- better than fear mongering. Saying things like 'hasten demise' is just spreading falsehoods.

[the Ferret]

I didn't say " hasten the demise" , the so called motor "expert" who wrote the article for Revzilla did, I was simply quoting the article and I've said multiple times in this thread and in the past, that running the CB 1100 to redline would not hurt it, but I'm not ready to say it's actually good for it.

I believe Honda engineered the bike to be ridden at whatever rpm you choose as long as it's not bucking or exceeding redline, and it will last a long time ridden either way. Neither 2000 rpms or 6000 rpms is an issue for this motor.

Regardless I have a feeling you will run your bike how you want, and I'll do the same with mine, as will everyone else on this forum and throughout the motorcycling community, regardless of what we say.

[alprider]

rev up to.... to accelerate is one thing... permanently ( unnecessary ) rpm because of the principle of not using the last 1-2 gears is another......

well...noise has been frowned upon here for many years and I personally think a lot of economical driving because I still have fun on that way....

and careful handling (material-friendly) with things i learned as a child

or even just because the monkey is small and cheap (for me) doesn't mean i don't make an effort to carry it

[jtopiso_imp]

Do rpms hurt motorcycles? Ridden within reason NO.

Each engine component has only so many cycles in it (bearings, rings, valves, cam chains, cylinders etc). You can use the cycles up fast or you can use them up slowly.

The average MotoGP race where motorcycles are run at maximum rpms for most of their life is 70 miles long. They run 18 of these races a season plus practice and qualifying. That computes to 1260 miles of racing plus maybe another let's say 4,000 miles in practice and qualifying or approx 5,000 miles total. They are allotted 7 engines to last the season. If high rpms didn't wear out engines, why would they need 7 engines to go 5,000 miles?

I've ridden 68,000 miles on my CB1100 and it still starts and runs great. Is it because it is made with more durable materials? Assembled with more care? Or is it because it has been stressed less and run at fewer rpms? Say 4,000 rpms max vs 18,000 rpm max. I dunno ......

I like to think of engines as hearts. The Chinese used to say that a mouse and an elephant get the same number of heart beats in their lifetime. A mouse at 600 beats per minute uses his up very quickly, while the elephant at 30 beats per minute uses his up very slowly.

Something to think about

You can get the same power output a different rpms. For lower rpms you will need more pressure in the cylinders (and more torque per crank, so more load on each component: conrods, cranckshaft, bearings... everything). At higher revs you will use less load on every component, but more impacts per minute.

Like everything in life, there is a tradeoff where the engine is "happier", and the optimal ratio load/rpm for that power is achieved. And it's usually around the point of "peak torque" for that load (we usually only see the cruve at WOT: we'd need one for each throttle position).

in short: it doesn't matter much. The usable range is very wide anyway.