CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[curlyjoe_imp]

Welcome to the forum lederkombi. I'm sorry to hear about your low idle/stalling problem and am interested in how you will proceed to try to fix the issue. Are you going to try to replace the IACV first?

@postoak

There is a 4P connector that plugs into the IACV. The 4 wires from the IACV run to the black 33P connector that plugs into the ECM. There is a DTC code for the IACV circuit malfuntion (29-1). The symptoms are "engine stalls, hard to start, rough idling". I don't think anyone has reported that code or MIL blink pattern (29). See page 5-12 and 5-29 of the 2013 service manual.

@736cc

There are DTC codes for Oxygen sensor malfuntions (21-1 and 23-1) and in both cases the engine operates normally. See page 5-12 of the 2013 service manual.

[lederkombi_imp]

Hi there

I'm new to this forum and I'm here because of the same problem as Riko had. Riko wrote months ago in the german forum (where I write under the same name as here) and at that time my CB1100EX was running fine.
Today I started my machine after a 3 break an I now have the idle/stalling problem.
If I can not fix it (warranty is gone as the bike is from 2014 and there are only 2 years warranty in Switzerland), I will sell the bike and it will be my first and last Honda!


For me it is absolutly key that Rikos problem could be solved with a new Throttle unit! Lots of solutions are posted here, but one keything is, that the new unit consists of a new IACV, IACV-Stepper Motor and also the TPS. Every part of those is key to the amount of air and fuel during idle which lasts in RPM for idle.
I'm quiet sure that the problem is based on one of those 3 parts. The EOT (Engine Oil Temperature) Sensor may be deliver information for the ECU (and disconnecting it my help to prevent the error), bur I'm quiet sure, that it doesn't belong to the error. Same for the O2 Sensor/Lambda.

edit: I forgot the word "month"

[postoak_imp]

Welcome to the forum lederkombi. I'm sorry to hear about your low idle/stalling problem and am interested in how you will proceed to try to fix the issue. Are you going to try to replace the IACV first?

@postoak

There is a 4P connector that plugs into the IACV. The 4 wires from the IACV run to the black 33P connector that plugs into the ECM. There is a DTC code for the IACV circuit malfuntion (29-1). The symptoms are "engine stalls, hard to start, rough idling". I don't think anyone has reported that code or MIL blink pattern (29). See page 5-12 and 5-29 of the 2013 service manual.

@736cc

There are DTC codes for Oxygen sensor malfuntions (21-1 and 23-1) and in both cases the engine operates normally. See page 5-12 of the 2013 service manual.

Thanks. What does the "P" in 4P and 33P stand for? And what does "DTC" stand for?

The puzzling part is lederkombi, that all those parts you mention have been replaced by some and yet the problem persisted. (If those codes weren't being set you have to wonder why the techs replaced them, but whatever.

If codes aren't being set then it points back to faulty ECU logic. And I don't mean faulty in not setting the codes but rather faulty in controlling the idle under certain conditions. But there doesn't seem anything odd about the conditions that trigger the problem.

It seems like an easy test for a tech to check those connections and see if the problem is resolved, at least temporarily.

[curlyjoe_imp]

The “P” stands for pin I believe. DTC stands for diagnostic trouble code. I agree that the ECU software should be more sophisticated to diagnose these idle issues.



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[Lord Popgun]

P is pin. So a 4P connector is 4 pins. 33P would be 33 pins. You get the idea.

[pdedse]

Ok...so I talked to the service manager at the dealership where I bought the bike from in Jan of '16 (Portland, OR area). To review: last Saturday I drove 1 hour to the shop and left a 2 page letter outlining my high//low idle issues and I included the spreadsheet summary from this site. The bike politely refused to exhibit any idle problems and service tech said better to leave letter with them, SM would review and call me back. I wasn't ready to drop off the bike anyway.

Ride home was fine; another 1 hour ride since and no problems (BTW: before riding to dealership last Sat. I tried the battery disconnect, but for one hour, reconnect, let it idle for 10 minutes, turn off, throttle reset, then rode...no issue since then, but I'm not even bothering to cross my fingers--if it helps, great!)

Service Manager had not read letter but said his assistant probably had because they had left a phone message with me stating they would have to charge me the $115 diagnostic fee. I had two main issues I wanted to clarify with SM: 1) how do recalls and service bulletins get generated, and 2) what would they actually do with a "diagnostic" on the bike.

After listening to my story of high/low idle since July of this year, I asked him #1: his answer was that it is best to contact Honda CS directly with call / letter / email and let them know of the problem; again, how do recalls / service bulletins happen. I told him some of us have done so and I think I remember one member here reporting that he was told to contact dealership first. But, SN said he would check with some of his "contacts" at Honda to look into the matter. He repeated that it was important to contact them. So I will.

2) to the question of what happens if I leave my bike with them: I asked if I had other work done with them at the same time (it needs new tires, for example) he said he'd be willing to talk about a discount on the $115 charge. At least that. He did say that from the sound of things (my story), that it could be a difficult thing to pinpoint. He asked about the "check engine" light, and whether I've ever seen it. I have not. He said if that is the case--no check engine light history--it is highly likely that a computer diagnositic that they run would NOT find anything wrong with the bike. He said that someone else (passing this off?) might be able to do a dyno test to really find out. But...$$$. I told him I bought the bike at his place and would start with them as I have no desire to go somewhere else to look for help.

He said even if it were acting up when I brought it in, it could be difficult to pinpoint the problem, based on what I told him and his experience with like issues (he did say he has not heard from any CB1100 owners on this issue). He thought it best for the moment to let him check with Honda, and he said he has a good friend with several CB1100s and would contact him to ask about the issue. Apparently, the guy is a very good tech person, meticulous about his bikes, and would be able to discuss the issue. He's going to call his friend, and said that within a week he would call me back with no news or any news. I told him I'd appreciate that, and that was it.

We spoke about 20-25 minutes and he seemed empathetic, but, as it was "news to him" he couldn't give me anything more for the moment. Fair enough. He reiterated calling Honda CS, and that best not to bring bike in for diagnositic until he can find out more info prior.

Fingers-crossed...but not really. ¡Buena suerte, gents!

[curlyjoe_imp]

Good luck pdedse,

I'm hoping your mechanic is a genius and will diagnose the problem.

[the Ferret]

Well if history is any lesson, his mechanic will fix his, but it won't work for anyone else's lol

[pdedse]

Good luck pdedse,

I'm hoping your mechanic is a genius and will diagnose the problem.

My "mechanic" may very well end up being... me (and all here on this site)

: )

The thing is, it is "liveable" in that mine doesn't stall out at low idle--only happened the very first time, and the bike started right up again after. I can ride the bike, and, as is, it won't stop me from planning a trip from OR to Illinois again for next summer. Likely, it will do the bike good. Once I'm going on hiway it's a non-issue anyway. But...if it began stalling out, or raced up to 2000 or higher RPM, never went away...then I've got to ask myself some questions; namely, am I going to leave it with the dealer's service to diagnose the problem? Based on SM's response to me, I don't have high hopes that the result would be definitive. So...if the problem worsens over time, I'm likely either to 1) trade it in and be done with it or 2) more interesting: dive into IACV replacement myself and see if that works. My understanding is that the part is around $130 and the rest would be my time. Daunting for a non-mechanic like me, but that's where all you guys would come in and help....right?..............right? I'm semi serious, if I started a "let's try some fixes" I'd be game to post pics and write it all up, but I would be heavily dependent on all ya'all's help. It could be fun. But I won't go that route unless problem worsens to the bike being "unrideable". I'm patient. I'll see if SM provides me with any insight once he's spoken with his "connections".

My boat's running well, though, and the blasted KLR, well, I can't seem to kill it.

Well if history is any lesson, his mechanic will fix his, but it won't work for anyone else's lol

Right?!?! That's the mystery here. That's why I'm trying to document everything.

[johnf514_imp]

pdedse, if you can, have the dealership reference Central Florida Powersports work on my bike. It was work done in November 2016 with tech Jimmy Le.

Hope this helps.