The Only Reason You Should Pay More Than You Have To...

[kevbroce_imp]

I don't know, I think everyone here can benefit from knowing what others have paid for their bikes. Obviously dealers have room to deal, but the public doesn't know how much room that is. By seeing what others have paid, we all have an idea of what's possible.

I'd disagree with that, unless you're comparing the same dealership, or roughly the same geographic location.

The price that somebody can pay for a motorcycle in snow-covered Michigan in January is probably going to be much different than the price I would pay in 70 degree southern California in January.

And I agree with Red Mist--I don't care how anybody else feels about how I spend my money. I have a fantastic relationship with my local Honda/Kawasaki/Sukuki/Triumph dealership, and I built that relationship over the last 30 years. When I purchase a bike from them, I feel like I get treated very fairly. And if I text the sales manager with questions about a bike, then he knows I'm serious about spending more money with them. I absolutely take offense to somebody opening a thread on a forum, basically accusing his audience of being a bunch of idiots, who are in need of a financial scolding on their spending habits.

Oh and to Ferret--herding cats is much, much easier than trying to keep a lid on this group of yahoos and misfits (myself included, of course.)

Cheers all.

I'd disagree with that, unless you're comparing the same dealership, or roughly the same geographic location.

The price that somebody can pay for a motorcycle in snow-covered Michigan in January is probably going to be much different than the price I would pay in 70 degree southern California in January.
I get what your saying, but does the bike cost a Michigan dealer less than a California dealer? I don't believe so. I personally find this information useful when deciding what I am willing to pay. Of course time of year, weather, cost of living are factors in what a dealer is willing to do, and some people forget about that on the internet. If you want the bike, by the bike, if you want a deal, look for a deal, that's for you to decide not me to care about.

I personally don't have much of a relationship with a dealer (26 years old, fist bike purchase, never taken a bike to a dealer for repairs), and more likely than not wont be living in this area in 15 years. I've never bought anything at a dealer, so I was very curious what dealers are willing to do. It's all just information to me.

[Cormanus]

I don't know, I think everyone here can benefit from knowing what others have paid for their bikes. Obviously dealers have room to deal, but the public doesn't know how much room that is. By seeing what others have paid, we all have an idea of what's possible.

I'd disagree with that, unless you're comparing the same dealership, or roughly the same geographic location.

The price that somebody can pay for a motorcycle in snow-covered Michigan in January is probably going to be much different than the price I would pay in 70 degree southern California in January.

And I agree with Red Mist--I don't care how anybody else feels about how I spend my money. I have a fantastic relationship with my local Honda/Kawasaki/Sukuki/Triumph dealership, and I built that relationship over the last 30 years. When I purchase a bike from them, I feel like I get treated very fairly. And if I text the sales manager with questions about a bike, then he knows I'm serious about spending more money with them. I absolutely take offense to somebody opening a thread on a forum, basically accusing his audience of being a bunch of idiots, who are in need of a financial scolding on their spending habits.

Oh and to Ferret--herding cats is much, much easier than trying to keep a lid on this group of yahoos and misfits (myself included, of course.)

Cheers all.

Ain't that the truth, Thumper? Perhaps its more like using a pitchfork to load frogs into a wheelbarrow ?

[Guth_imp]

Does everyone assume that the price they were quoted by the dealer is the same price that the next person receives, or the person after them?

[davidsargee_imp]

Does everyone assume that the price they were quoted by the dealer is the same price that the next person receives, or the person after them?

There are a lot of variables to consider, what it comes down to, is how badly does the dealer need to move the bike? Are there volume-based incentives, perhaps? I don't know how they operate, but in the car business, dealers that sell the most units, get better prices. I don't know if motorcycle companies do that as well, but I would suspect they do. If a dealer is only a unit or two away from an incentive, they are prone do "whatever they have to", to get the sale, and the incentive, which could very well boost their profits not on just that one bike, but on several others that have already sold.

I know that some dealers have larger "sales floor" allotments than other dealers, and if they have too many bikes, they risk losing some to other dealers unless they sell them.

Maybe, they have new models coming in, there are a lot of factors, at the end of the day, it depends upon how motivated the dealer is to sell a bike.

So I would think not, you can't assume you are getting the same deal, better or worse, than the last customer, or the next one. You just make the best deal you can, if you don't like the deal, walk away. If you are happy with the deal, buy the bike and forget about it.

Cheers

[Rolls_imp]

While I think that how much a dealer pays for a CB11 can vary, I know that once a dealer has a bike, how much he paid no longer matters at all. Whether he somehow paid 15,000 for the CB11 (and someone's in trouble for that mistake!) or he somehow (equally mysteriously) got that particular CB11 for free, it is now a sunk cost. It has no effect on what price he sells that particular bike for.

He seeks only to get the maximum sales price possible. And to do that, he needs only to figure out if you're a "real" buyer and whether or not he can get another real buyer in a reasonably short time to buy it for more than you will.

How long is reasonable for him to wait for a buyer who will pay more? That depends on his real cost to hold the bike (overhead expense and such) and the opportunity cost, or in other words, if that particular CB11 were sold and the floorspace was therefore available, how much profit could he make by putting another bike there and selling it.

In other words supply and demand set the price. Problem for us and for the dealers, is that supply is not precisely known, nor is demand, and they're both always changing over time. Even at a given time, the supply and demand situation is different in different regions. Weather, gas prices, a buyer's alternatives to meet his bike need all affect demand. Honda's intent and execution and Yen/$ exchange rates and even regional (like Cali) emissions requirements affect supply.

So while I think it's probably somewhat useful and it's certainly interesting to know what prices deals are going down at, and what negotiating techniques are working for buyers, I think each of us is well-served to take those examples with a grain of salt and know that they don't *completely* apply to our situation when we go to make our best deal.

So I always try to have fun and enjoy my interactions with dealers and the whole buying experience. I also look at my opportunity cost - what else could I do that's more profitable or enjoyable with time I spend squeezing the last extra $100 out of my purchase of a drop-dead gorgeous CB1100.

[Capo]

Rolls, good observations. The 'sunk cost' conundrum is what makes most people make bad investment decisions across the board. What you paid for something has no bearing in what something is worth at any given time. Whether it's real estate, a stock or bond, or any other asset like a bike, a majority of people tend to want to 'get their money back' or 'not take a loss.' Consequentially, they discount what that money could do invested in something else and often hold on to a sinking asset. My local triumph dealer has a 2011 Sprint GT that is the original demo they got. They still have it priced near list. The sales manager keeps turning down offers because 'it cost me more than that.' That's his problem, not the buyer's.

Of course, all this goes out the window when we want a beautiful CB1100!

[the Ferret]

Something else that must be factored in.. The dealer does not pay for bikes per se, at least not outright. He buys them thru a lending institution on what is called a floor plan..he finances the bikes and pays interest on them every month..probably a couple hundred dollars per unit. The longer that bike sits in the showroom, the more it is costing the dealer. When he sells the unit he then pays off the remaining floor plan due on the bike to get the title. On a bike that has been on the floor a week, the dealer basically has nothing in that bike. When it has been there 3 months then he is starting to have an investment in that bike. When it has been there a year, he wants to get rid of that drain on his budget pretty badly. I have bought brand new 2 and 3 year left overs at a song (as compared to a current model year models of the same bike) because the dealer is tired of paying floor plan interest on them. Conversely a 2 or 3 year old model is only worth as much as any other 2 or 3 year old same model in the used market, so the buyer has to take that into account and not overpay even though it is brand new.

Both buying and selling vehicles is a form of black magic lol

[Elipten_imp]

You nailed it Capo! Sadly few ever learn that reality of life.


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What you left out ferret is in my experience in buying cars the end of the month is the best time as if the dealer sells it he does not own it into the next month and avoids the interest payment. I assume the same for bikes. It is business, my view is just like howitzer deal with my contractors; I am not out to screw them so low on price that they go out of business, but is don't want to be funding an high flying profit lifestyle either. Fair for both parties is fair.

So I always start it like this with the manager "You look like a smart guy that has been around this business so you must know there are two kinds of customers". A quizzical look appears and then " There are customers you will make a lot of money from and those you will not, and I think you are smart enough to know which one you are dealing with now". Get me out the door at a fair deal so you can rob the other sucker, but me I slap doe. The offer on a piece of paper. If he balks, I walk, I never waste time or play around. It works.


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[CA200_imp]

I think Rolls, Capo and ferret spoke volumes about how it works.
Being on the other side on the counter and being a owner you really
look at it in a different way then most people think.
profit and loss and cash flow is always on your mind.

[Elipten_imp]

Yep I agree. I just want a fair price so all win and I don't want to waste time doing it. I have a lot better things to do.


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