THINKING ABOUT A FLASH READ THIS

[CIP57_imp]

I had a chance to get in 200 miles today on the new flash. Its very important to me to be as honest as possible. I rode at what i would consider a normal pace highway and back roads.

There are small gains in the lowers gears, but no night and day difference. Would i consider it worth the flash for just normal pace ridding?? NO

There is a bit less drive lash but only people that are on off throttle would notice.

Those who want the limiter gone its we'll worth the flash for other i don't think so.

I don't want members (friends) flashing there bikes only to say it was not worth it.

This is my humble honest opinion.

[Red Mist_imp]

I had a chance to get in 200 miles today on the new flash. Its very important to me to be as honest as possible. I rode at what i would consider a normal pace highway and back roads.

There are small gains in the lowers gears, but no night and day difference. Would i consider it worth the flash for just normal pace ridding?? NO

There is a bit less drive lash but only people that are on off throttle would notice.

Those who want the limiter gone its we'll worth the flash for other i don't think so.

I don't want members (friends) flashing there bikes only to say it was not worth it.

This is my humble honest opinion.

Agreed; in fact for cruiser-style riding, distance riding, tooling about town, or for new/newer riders, forget the reflash. It's for those who want the juice, all of it, all the time.

Just got back from my normal ride on my FZ8. The reflash transformed that bike but you would not notice it unless you ride aggressively, that is, really getting into the juice hard. I like to ride my CB1100 the same way, I'm into the juice all the time, it loves to rev and I like to keep the R's up between and betwixt 5500-8000. It pulls real good and clean up there, and with the factory restrictions removed I know I'm gonna love it.

For the guy putting 400 miles a day on the freeway or enjoying the scenery, you'll never notice it. The only scenery I like, personally, when riding a motorcycle is whatever is 3 seconds ahead of me and the tachometer. In that order. I don't want Cap'n Kidd biting me in the ass.

[Greg_imp]

Hi CIP57

Thanks for posting the disclaimer.

I'm interested because I'm considering a Yoshi full exhaust and an air intake mod. An ECU re-flash seems like the best way to accommodate the new air flow conditions. I'm also interested in the rideability aspects of refining the stock maps, which a piggyback fuel controller couldn't do. I don't care about the limiters.

Posts on this subject are scattered across numerous threads and website subsections. I've tried to find answers to a couple of questions I have by re-reading posts, but would you mind telling me:

Is there a connection between ECUnleashed and Guhl? I see where you contacted ECUnleashed, but it appears Guhl Motors did the work.

What role the PCv played in your mod? Do you have one installed now?
ECUnleashed FAQs say no 3rd party equipment is needed.
[url=http://ecunleashed.com/frequently-asked-questions/]ECUnleashed FAQ

If there is no PCv, then is the O2 sensor still part of the picture? ECUnleased FAQ does not mention this.

Did you change the deceleration map?

Does your bike run cooler?

Thanks in advance!

[CIP57_imp]

Hi CIP57

Thanks for posting the disclaimer.

I'm interested because I'm considering a Yoshi full exhaust and an air intake mod. An ECU re-flash seems like the best way to accommodate the new air flow conditions. I'm also interested in the rideability aspects of refining the stock maps, which a piggyback fuel controller couldn't do. I don't care about the limiters.

Posts on this subject are scattered across numerous threads and website subsections. I've tried to find answers to a couple of questions I have by re-reading posts, but would you mind telling me:

Is there a connection between ECUnleashed and Guhl? I see where you contacted ECUnleashed, but it appears Guhl Motors did the work.

What role the PCv played in your mod? Do you have one installed now?
ECUnleashed FAQs say no 3rd party equipment is needed.
[url=http://ecunleashed.com/frequently-asked-questions/]ECUnleashed FAQ

If there is no PCv, then is the O2 sensor still part of the picture? ECUnleased FAQ does not mention this.

Did you change the deceleration map?

Does your bike run cooler?

Thanks in advance!

Greg,

I would not deal or give ECUnleashed your money, i still have an e-mail from April 11th that was not answered. I even got a local tuner that represents them involved with no answer from the company which by the way is in Italy. Plus they have to drill your ECU to flash it.

Don a Guhls is a great guy to deal with and i would recommend him without hesitation.

My bike is stock with no PC5. I would recommend that it you have it flashed without the bike physically being present to just get the restrictions done, bring it to a local tuner with your aftermarket PC5 for fueling. I have noticed my bike with the A/F ratio's changed is running rich. Having done numerous jetting with carbs you know that smell, and my fuel mileage is down.

Hope this is helpful.

[Red Mist_imp]

Hi CIP57

Thanks for posting the disclaimer.

I'm interested because I'm considering a Yoshi full exhaust and an air intake mod. An ECU re-flash seems like the best way to accommodate the new air flow conditions. I'm also interested in the rideability aspects of refining the stock maps, which a piggyback fuel controller couldn't do. I don't care about the limiters.

Posts on this subject are scattered across numerous threads and website subsections. I've tried to find answers to a couple of questions I have by re-reading posts, but would you mind telling me:

Is there a connection between ECUnleashed and Guhl? I see where you contacted ECUnleashed, but it appears Guhl Motors did the work.

What role the PCv played in your mod? Do you have one installed now?
ECUnleashed FAQs say no 3rd party equipment is needed.
[url=http://ecunleashed.com/frequently-asked-questions/]ECUnleashed FAQ

If there is no PCv, then is the O2 sensor still part of the picture? ECUnleased FAQ does not mention this.

Did you change the deceleration map?

Does your bike run cooler?

Thanks in advance!

Greg,

I would not deal or give ECUnleashed your money, i still have an e-mail from April 11th that was not answered. I even got a local tuner that represents them involved with no answer from the company which by the way is in Italy. Plus they have to drill your ECU to flash it.

Don a Guhls is a great guy to deal with and i would recommend him without hesitation.

My bike is stock with no PC5. I would recommend that it you have it flashed without the bike physically being present to just get the restrictions done, bring it to a local tuner with your aftermarket PC5 for fueling. I have noticed my bike with the A/F ratio's changed is running rich. Having done numerous jetting with carbs you know that smell, and my fuel mileage is down.

Hope this is helpful.

+1
Here's my ride report on the FZ8 reflash.
_________________________________

I just got my ECU back yesterday. They did the standard FZ8 deal, which they will explain, but in brief it just opens the engine up and removes a number of factory restrictions while increasing redline. One adjustment they made for me is to account for the new K&N air filter, other than that, my bike is stone stock; exhaust and slip-on are all standard, stock items.

Well, you never know with electronics. I was just happy when the bike started after I put it all back together. First ride was about 30 miles of freeway at night. Yep, it felt quite a bit faster but freeway at night is hardly the place to be opening up your machine. I stuck to the basic speed law but it felt promising.

Today we had good weather, perfect in fact. I did 175 miles, of mostly very twisty to moderately twisty roads that I've been riding for well over 25 years.

I have to also mention that I put on a brand-new set of Dunlop Q3's, and that I have an Ohlins rear shock, along with having changed the fork oil out for 10wt (stock is 5wt).

I probably did around 80 miles of just twisted pavement, back and forth, up, down, over, and around. After an hour or more of this the darn thing was feeling so good, I was U-turning to follow the odd sportbike rider up or down the hill. By this time the Q3's were broken in, which was a good thing.

Bottom line here, this bike is stupid fast now. It is ridiculous. I cannot use all the power. It's easy to lift the front wheel in the first two gears for sure, and I suppose one could even pull it up in third. I'm not about wheelies, but the way the power comes on in every gear, everywhere, is greatly increased. From the seat-of-the-pants, it feels as strong as a Generation One FZ1. I had one of those for five years. That bike makes about 120 HP at the rear wheel and 70 lbs feet of torque, but it's weighing in at about 510 pounds compared to 467 lbs for the FZ8. That's over 40 pounds of pork there. Also, the older FZ1 engine was rather slow revving. So with the lighter weight and much quicker-revving engine, to my mind, the FZ8 with the Guhls reflash and K&N is a real close match to that 2005 FZ1.

The acceleration increase is almost mind-numbing compared to the stock bike. I also own a 2012 GSX-R 750 and for sure, the FZ8 with the reflash will smoke it anywhere below 10K RPM. After that, the Gixxer is just gone, but down low it has more torque and HP and more important, more driveability.

Everyone knows the FZ8 has a "flat spot" around 5500 rpm. It's not a dead spot, the power just flattens out and then starts to build again above 6K, and when it hits 7K it starts to pull pretty hard. With the reflash, it pulls REAL hard from 7K to 12K, plenty darn fast enough to get you into your favorite corners a lot faster than you are used to. This happened to me several times today. I was like, "WTF? Good thing this bike has good brakes, WHOA!"

This bike has two modes, so to speak; from 2K to 5.5K, it's real torquey and pulls clean and strong. She feels neutral as you pull through 5.5, and when you hit 7K, watch the hell out, because that tach needle will swing up to 12K in less than a second, if you are in 1st or 2nd gear. In the past I didn't spend much time above 9 grand because the bike was pretty lazy getting past that. It would do it but without any real excitement. Now it just plain "zings" right up there. Below 5500, it feels like a strong 900, plenty of torque and very rideable around town.

Anyone who's used the Q3 knows that they are just about the best and stickiest tire going for track days and hard sport riding. I'm out to maybe 3/8" chicken strip on the rear now, and I can tell you this thing gets out of a corner FAST. Towards the end of my ride, I did in fact feel the rear start to push a little, on clean dry pavement in a turn I had been over several times before. Now given the stick of the Q3's (at least as good as the Supercorsas on my Gixxer) that is saying something.

The engine braking is reduced noticeably, they got it exactly where I wanted it. Throttle pickup is noticeably smoother. This bike has a lot of mechanical driveline lash so I don't think this will ever be as smooth as the best bikes out there (the GSX-R 750 being one of these, it's nearly perfect) but it's very good, and a good rider can flat steam along on this reflashed FZ8. You will be using the brakes more, first because of the much harder acceleration, and secondly because of the reduced engine braking (this can be tuned so just tell them how you want it).

Bottom line, it's a whole different ball game for the FZ8 when you do the reflash and K&N, and mount premium sporting rubber. This bike may not be quite as fast as an FZ-09 in a straight line, but I will guarantee you it's not far off, and without all the problems. Fortunately Yamaha gave us a very rigid, tuneable, stable chassis with the FZ8, and with just the Ohlins and fork oil change this bike is very rideable on all kinds of pavement, especially with the Q3's. I'm planning on doing the Racetech Gold Valves and springs for my weight, but that's a ways down the road. At that point I say that the FZ8 will hold its own, or best, any danged naked bike out there in a real-world situation.

Guhl is not doing me any special deals or favors, I paid full pop, but I will say this as it needs to be said: this seriously unleashes the real power in the FZ8's engine, and I don't recommend it for new riders under any circumstances. Like I said, I was getting the Q3 to push in the rear under hard acceleration on clean pavement.

ADVISORY

If you are a new rider, and you don't want to quickly learn about what a highside is, don't have this flash done. Give yourself a few thousand miles to get used to the bike.

If you are an experienced rider and you want the ultimate FZ8, one that can hold its head high among the field of nakeds out there, consider doing this flash. But take some time getting used to the extra power.

Remember, motorcycling is a darn dangerous sport. Gear up and know your limits.

[Cormanus]

Thanks CIP and Red Mist for this useful information—a reminder of how far bike technology has come. Like many other things, I guess.

Very wise words from Red Mist—my emphasis added.

Hi CIP57

Thanks for posting the disclaimer.

I'm interested because I'm considering a Yoshi full exhaust and an air intake mod. An ECU re-flash seems like the best way to accommodate the new air flow conditions. I'm also interested in the rideability aspects of refining the stock maps, which a piggyback fuel controller couldn't do. I don't care about the limiters.

Posts on this subject are scattered across numerous threads and website subsections. I've tried to find answers to a couple of questions I have by re-reading posts, but would you mind telling me:

Is there a connection between ECUnleashed and Guhl? I see where you contacted ECUnleashed, but it appears Guhl Motors did the work.

What role the PCv played in your mod? Do you have one installed now?
ECUnleashed FAQs say no 3rd party equipment is needed.
[url=http://ecunleashed.com/frequently-asked-questions/]ECUnleashed FAQ

If there is no PCv, then is the O2 sensor still part of the picture? ECUnleased FAQ does not mention this.

Did you change the deceleration map?

Does your bike run cooler?

Thanks in advance!

Greg,

I would not deal or give ECUnleashed your money, i still have an e-mail from April 11th that was not answered. I even got a local tuner that represents them involved with no answer from the company which by the way is in Italy. Plus they have to drill your ECU to flash it.

Don a Guhls is a great guy to deal with and i would recommend him without hesitation.

My bike is stock with no PC5. I would recommend that it you have it flashed without the bike physically being present to just get the restrictions done, bring it to a local tuner with your aftermarket PC5 for fueling. I have noticed my bike with the A/F ratio's changed is running rich. Having done numerous jetting with carbs you know that smell, and my fuel mileage is down.

Hope this is helpful.

+1
Here's my ride report on the FZ8 reflash.
_________________________________

I just got my ECU back yesterday. They did the standard FZ8 deal, which they will explain, but in brief it just opens the engine up and removes a number of factory restrictions while increasing redline. One adjustment they made for me is to account for the new K&N air filter, other than that, my bike is stone stock; exhaust and slip-on are all standard, stock items.

Well, you never know with electronics. I was just happy when the bike started after I put it all back together. First ride was about 30 miles of freeway at night. Yep, it felt quite a bit faster but freeway at night is hardly the place to be opening up your machine. I stuck to the basic speed law but it felt promising.

Today we had good weather, perfect in fact. I did 175 miles, of mostly very twisty to moderately twisty roads that I've been riding for well over 25 years.

I have to also mention that I put on a brand-new set of Dunlop Q3's, and that I have an Ohlins rear shock, along with having changed the fork oil out for 10wt (stock is 5wt).

I probably did around 80 miles of just twisted pavement, back and forth, up, down, over, and around. After an hour or more of this the darn thing was feeling so good, I was U-turning to follow the odd sportbike rider up or down the hill. By this time the Q3's were broken in, which was a good thing.

Bottom line here, this bike is stupid fast now. It is ridiculous. I cannot use all the power. It's easy to lift the front wheel in the first two gears for sure, and I suppose one could even pull it up in third. I'm not about wheelies, but the way the power comes on in every gear, everywhere, is greatly increased. From the seat-of-the-pants, it feels as strong as a Generation One FZ1. I had one of those for five years. That bike makes about 120 HP at the rear wheel and 70 lbs feet of torque, but it's weighing in at about 510 pounds compared to 467 lbs for the FZ8. That's over 40 pounds of pork there. Also, the older FZ1 engine was rather slow revving. So with the lighter weight and much quicker-revving engine, to my mind, the FZ8 with the Guhls reflash and K&N is a real close match to that 2005 FZ1.

The acceleration increase is almost mind-numbing compared to the stock bike. I also own a 2012 GSX-R 750 and for sure, the FZ8 with the reflash will smoke it anywhere below 10K RPM. After that, the Gixxer is just gone, but down low it has more torque and HP and more important, more driveability.

Everyone knows the FZ8 has a "flat spot" around 5500 rpm. It's not a dead spot, the power just flattens out and then starts to build again above 6K, and when it hits 7K it starts to pull pretty hard. With the reflash, it pulls REAL hard from 7K to 12K, plenty darn fast enough to get you into your favorite corners a lot faster than you are used to. This happened to me several times today. I was like, "WTF? Good thing this bike has good brakes, WHOA!"

This bike has two modes, so to speak; from 2K to 5.5K, it's real torquey and pulls clean and strong. She feels neutral as you pull through 5.5, and when you hit 7K, watch the hell out, because that tach needle will swing up to 12K in less than a second, if you are in 1st or 2nd gear. In the past I didn't spend much time above 9 grand because the bike was pretty lazy getting past that. It would do it but without any real excitement. Now it just plain "zings" right up there. Below 5500, it feels like a strong 900, plenty of torque and very rideable around town.

Anyone who's used the Q3 knows that they are just about the best and stickiest tire going for track days and hard sport riding. I'm out to maybe 3/8" chicken strip on the rear now, and I can tell you this thing gets out of a corner FAST. Towards the end of my ride, I did in fact feel the rear start to push a little, on clean dry pavement in a turn I had been over several times before. Now given the stick of the Q3's (at least as good as the Supercorsas on my Gixxer) that is saying something.

The engine braking is reduced noticeably, they got it exactly where I wanted it. Throttle pickup is noticeably smoother. This bike has a lot of mechanical driveline lash so I don't think this will ever be as smooth as the best bikes out there (the GSX-R 750 being one of these, it's nearly perfect) but it's very good, and a good rider can flat steam along on this reflashed FZ8. You will be using the brakes more, first because of the much harder acceleration, and secondly because of the reduced engine braking (this can be tuned so just tell them how you want it).

Bottom line, it's a whole different ball game for the FZ8 when you do the reflash and K&N, and mount premium sporting rubber. This bike may not be quite as fast as an FZ-09 in a straight line, but I will guarantee you it's not far off, and without all the problems. Fortunately Yamaha gave us a very rigid, tuneable, stable chassis with the FZ8, and with just the Ohlins and fork oil change this bike is very rideable on all kinds of pavement, especially with the Q3's. I'm planning on doing the Racetech Gold Valves and springs for my weight, but that's a ways down the road. At that point I say that the FZ8 will hold its own, or best, any danged naked bike out there in a real-world situation.

Guhl is not doing me any special deals or favors, I paid full pop, but I will say this as it needs to be said: this seriously unleashes the real power in the FZ8's engine, and I don't recommend it for new riders under any circumstances. Like I said, I was getting the Q3 to push in the rear under hard acceleration on clean pavement.

ADVISORY

If you are a new rider, and you don't want to quickly learn about what a highside is, don't have this flash done. Give yourself a few thousand miles to get used to the bike.

If you are an experienced rider and you want the ultimate FZ8, one that can hold its head high among the field of nakeds out there, consider doing this flash. But take some time getting used to the extra power.

Remember, motorcycling is a darn dangerous sport. Gear up and know your limits.

[The Spaceman_imp]

So a Power Commander and a dyno-tune is the better choice if you think you need more power. Unless you ride an FZ8.

[Red Mist_imp]

So a Power Commander and a dyno-tune is the better choice if you think you need more power. Unless you ride an FZ8.

Not at all; for the benefit of those who want to make some meaningful performance and rideability changes in accord with 21st century digital engine control management, I say again, the first place to start is the ECU. If you CB1100 owners, or owners of any motorcycle that can be reflashed, want to increase performance substantially across the board -- without buying a pipe, gutting the cat, or any of those deprecated 19th century modifications -- you reflash. Then you work outward from there.

(Power Commanders are also somewhat, if not entirely, deprecated with the advent of complete ECU tuning.)

A dyno run is always in order no matter how you tune your bike, but it's much more effective to tune using the ECU than a Power Commander. Stock dyno charts are available for a lot of bikes, and thus vendors like Guhls can have on hand an instant reflash package for those bikes.

One thing we need to understand is that the ECU allows everything -- every last minute parameter that controls the engine -- to be adjusted. A partial list would be ignition timing curves per gear (unique curve for each gear); engine braking; air/fuel ratio across the board; rev limiter ceiling; and top speed limit, which can be completely removed or adjusted to some other value.

A Power Commander cannot adjust anything but the air/fuel ratio, although they do have some very expensive add-ons that can make some adjustments to timing. That's about it.

My write-up on the FZ8 was submitted to confirm what CIP57 stated, and is completely analogous to his experience. As both of us also mentioned, for casual riders, tourers, city cruising, etcetera -- that is, riding where aggressive throttle and brakes aren't often required or desired -- we can take a pass on the reflash.

I would also deign to comment that for those unfamiliar with this process, don't knock it until you've tried it.

I get the fact that some folks are from Missouri (that's the "Show-Me" state, reputed to be full of skeptics, for you all who are not familiar with the "Missouri Mule") but even a Missouri Mule will accept something once they've been shown how it works.

[The Spaceman_imp]

I'm confused, seems like the point of this thread is that "The guy from Missouri" just found the only ECU flash benefit he saw is losing the limiters.

AFAIK nobody here has real time EEPROM programming (known as a "dyno-tune") available to them. Its a completely moot point. Per the flash company (and contradicting you) you're still going to have to get a PC and tune.

Reprogramming ECUs is nothing new; its been done since the first chip controlled EFI systems came out decades ago. You don't have to be under 30 to know all about it. Its also not magic, it comes down to a guy in a shop writing his code over the factory code and hoping its better.

Somebody else is going to get this done, it'll be interesting to see if they have the same experience.

[sethrose_imp]

Hey guys real interesting read I have a PCV on my bike and im looking to get ny ECU flashed and then get it dyno tuned where did you get yours flashed CIP57? Got a phone number for the place? You can PM me if you dont want to post it up here but ive been dieing for this mod so if you could help a guy out thatd be great.