Some Issues Arise, as the Mileage Adds Up...

[Randy B]

My suggestion is before you freak out and take it back to the dealer, get a video of it so we can actually see and hear what you have going on. Everyone has a different perception of the exact same thing so a video will give us a MUCH better idea of what is really going on when you drop it into gear.

[JustPassinThru_imp]

That's a good idea, Randy. Unfortunately I don't have a smartphone or video camera.

I could ask around; but most of the people I know and work with out here are busy with their own families. A few ride, but Harleys are the norm here...not a lot of commonality.

I'm a new guy in town...came from another employer in the industry; so it's not like I can start dialing from my school-reunion list.

I may have farkled it up just tonight - in the dark, moving it into the garage, looking for the kickstand, I hit the shifter instead. Engine idling, 1000 rpm...dumped into gear.

Seemed okay putting it away, but time will tell.

[ClassicVW_imp]

Like I said, no one is saying to charge right thru an intersection.... there's always an "out", just look around. You don't need to take off like a rocket. Like Empty Sea said..... and what I was trying to say.....if you're not first in line at the stop, you can slowly work your way over to the left or right of the vehicles in front of you. Even if a road is only one lane in each direction, its usually 30 or 40 feet wide. So say 8 or even 9 feet wide each for one car in each direction, you still have room somewhere to scootch yourself over, providing you left the bike in first gear and gave yourself some room between you and the car in front.

Even if you're first in line, there's room to move slightly forward and left or right before you are in the cross traffic. That cross traffic isn't passing by just 3 or 4 feet in front of your front tire. If it is, then you stopped too far forward anyway.

[CIP57_imp]

JPT,

The warmer the bike gets the less noise going into first. That clunk you hear is more noticeable at warm up idle speed and decreases with lower RPM's Even when warm is more noticeable in first than any other gear. Its probably normal but without listening and feeling it its hard to say.

[kDiqq_imp]

That's a good idea, Randy. Unfortunately I don't have a smartphone or video camera.

I could ask around; but most of the people I know and work with out here are busy with their own families. A few ride, but Harleys are the norm here...not a lot of commonality.

I'm a new guy in town...came from another employer in the industry; so it's not like I can start dialing from my school-reunion list.

I may have farkled it up just tonight - in the dark, moving it into the garage, looking for the kickstand, I hit the shifter instead. Engine idling, 1000 rpm...dumped into gear.

Seemed okay putting it away, but time will tell.

You're totally fine!!!

I had taken my bike to the dealer at 5xx miles for hard shifting. Dealer rode it and looked it over thoroughly with no issues to report. The physical size of this clutch is massive. If I remember right, it's a 7 disk and diameter of the basket is huge. Every time you shift gears, you have to instantaneously change the speed of the basket and friction plates. The engine is driving the clutch hub and steel plates. So the big thunk that you (and me and a few others hear) is just the transmission and basket having to get up to speed. Why it is more pronounced in 1st is beyond me. If I am rolling up in 2nd, clutch grabbed, come to a complete stop, and then hit 1st, it just ticks in. No thunk. It's only when I let everything get spun up. Your experience may be different, but I did have a dealer check mine out for banging shifts and they said it was totally fine.

[DGShannon_imp]

That's a good idea, Randy. Unfortunately I don't have a smartphone or video camera.

I could ask around; but most of the people I know and work with out here are busy with their own families. A few ride, but Harleys are the norm here...not a lot of commonality.

I'm a new guy in town...came from another employer in the industry; so it's not like I can start dialing from my school-reunion list.

I may have farkled it up just tonight - in the dark, moving it into the garage, looking for the kickstand, I hit the shifter instead. Engine idling, 1000 rpm...dumped into gear.

Seemed okay putting it away, but time will tell.

You're totally fine!!!

I had taken my bike to the dealer at 5xx miles for hard shifting. Dealer rode it and looked it over thoroughly with no issues to report. The physical size of this clutch is massive. If I remember right, it's a 7 disk and diameter of the basket is huge. Every time you shift gears, you have to instantaneously change the speed of the basket and friction plates. The engine is driving the clutch hub and steel plates. So the big thunk that you (and me and a few others hear) is just the transmission and basket having to get up to speed. Why it is more pronounced in 1st is beyond me. If I am rolling up in 2nd, clutch grabbed, come to a complete stop, and then hit 1st, it just ticks in. No thunk. It's only when I let everything get spun up. Your experience may be different, but I did have a dealer check mine out for banging shifts and they said it was totally fine.

In your "rolling up in 2nd" scenario, you have "clutch grabbed" for a good period of time. The transmissions main shaft is disconnected from the crankshaft, and turning relative to the slowing rear wheel, which eventually comes to a stop. Now, when you shift into first, the clutch basket and main shaft are not spinning, so no "thunk".

Alternatively, folks pull up at the light (or wherever), shift into neutral, and sit with the clutch lever out. This means that the engine is spinning the clutch basket, and thus the transmission main shaft. Light turns, they quickly pull in the clutch and immediately shift into first while the mass of the clutch basket and main shaft are still spinning. The "thunk" is all that mass coming to a halt as it becomes mechanically connected to the not spinning rear wheel. This shock wave gets transmitted through the drive chain, which is why its level of adjustment has a further audible effect.

Theoretically, if you were to pull in the clutch, and wait a moment, the clutch basket and main shaft would have time to spin down. And, to some degree it does, but typically not to zero as the oil between the clutch plates will typically still cause enough friction to turn the clutch basket some, thus you get a little thunk. The warmth and weight of your oil has an effect on how much thunk.

[Lord Popgun]

Great explanation DG. Thanks for all that.

[ChipBeck_imp]

You should always keep it in gear when stopped at a light in case you have to get quickly out of the way.

Disagree. If in a hypothetical, someone is bearing down on you...you're not much better off charging blindly into an intersection against the light. And in fact you'd open YOURSELF to liability...instead of that tractor-trailer coming up on you, YOU YOURSELF are now the cause of the accident - by running the stoplight. Which is gonna affect insurance payout, who pays what - and will keep you from suing for damages from any other party.

And anyway, the injuries from a stopping vehicle striking your rear are probably going to be far less than being hit broadside by a vehicle which was NOT stopping and maybe didn't even have time to react.

Keeping the clutch in and a gear engaged, in a car, is hard on the clutch throwout bearing. I don't know the mechanical composition of a motorcycle wet clutch pack; but it's quite possible there's a similar source of wear that could eventually take the clutch out prematurely.

Gentlemen,

Couldn't disagree more with this. I'm coming up on nearly 50 accident free years riding on the street and twice I've had to escape when I was going to be rear ended. Being ready to get out of the way doesn't mean "charging blindly into an intersection", that's a false choice. If there are one or more cars stopped at an intersection a rider should always stop behind a car and to the side such that he can quickly accelerate between or beside that car and let the auto take the hit. Plus that car in front of you is a lot more visible than a bike. If no cars are at the intersection I still don't relax and take my bike out of gear until there is a car stopped behind me.

Late in her life my dear mother rear ended a motorcycle that was stopped at a newly installed freeway on ramp red light. He was sitting there not paying attention to his rear view mirror and there was plenty of room for him to get out of the way. Still, that accident was my mothers fault and the damage to the bike and rider were horrible (he survived) and the stress of the lawsuit killed my elderly mom 6 months later.

Riding on the street is deadly serious business and it's not good enough to "not be at fault". A rider needs to prevent accidents caused by car drivers and sitting at an intersection without a car stopped behind you with your bike in neutral directly contradicts what is taught in street survival motorcycle courses.

Finally, in 50 years I've never had a car or bike damaged by leaving it in gear with the clutch in until there is someone stopped behind me. But that practice has saved my hide twice. And if I'm about to be rear ended in the future I won't be "charging blindly into an intersection", I will have my eyes open and I'll get out of the way as best I can. The last thing I'll care about is liability. Most of us would rather be at fault and alive than ticket free and dead. In this case, what I have relayed here is not JMO, it's the instruction riders receive in street survival courses. Cheers.

Chip

[treytexag_imp]

Great explanation DG. Thanks for all that.

WOW, I agree - excellent explanation. I clearly visualize what is going on now that you've taken the time to explain it DG - thank you sir . . .

[mininsx_imp]

I've had a Suzuki, a bunch of Hondas, and several Kawasakis and they all made a racket when going into first from neutral. It's normal.