Report on K&N Filters

[Dakota_imp]

Why is this so surprising? Do you think that Honda has incompetent engineers who don't understand how to size air filters to engine requirements?

[Cormanus]

The casual visitor to this site and others like it could be forgiven for reaching the conclusion that companies manufacturing motorcycles have no idea at all what they're doing. Examples: the mixture's all wrong so you have to get a reflash or install a PC; the air filter's rubbish, so you have to get a new one; what were they thinking about when they put that exhaust system on; what did they put that oil in it for? I could go on.

[CIP57_imp]

The casual visitor to this site and others like it could be forgiven for reaching the conclusion that companies manufacturing motorcycles have no idea at all what they're doing. Examples: the mixture's all wrong so you have to get a reflash or install a PC; the air filter's rubbish, so you have to get a new one; what were they thinking about when they put that exhaust system on; what did they put that oil in it for? I could go on.

Lets start out with Honda making a perfectly good motorcycle. And thats lets add do to EPA regulations they had there hands tied as to the direction they had to go to meet these regulations.

Fuel efficiency was a no brainier, its a motorcycle but we need to meet emissions. So they put in restriction at idle and other places to meet the guidelines so they can sell this unit in the states. This is why a flash, Exhaust, PCV makes the bike run better. The gains are there but not as big as other models ( 8% ) do to the cam Honda put in the CB1100 which is the biggest restriction.

Lets also educate the casual visitor and let them know they also put into place a speed limiter so they can make an better decision on ownership.

My point is all information on this site is educational to people who visit this site with intentions of buying, at least 50% will modify a bike for performance so lets let them know what works and what does not.

[the Ferret]

I agree with both of you. Honda makes a perfectly fine motorcycle which can be ridden forever as is with no issues. I also believe it can be modified to make it perform better.

CIP I think your figure of at least 50% of us modifying for performance is way off. I'm thinking no more than 5% if you include Staintune exhaust buyers who are usually not doing it for performance, but for sound.

[CIP57_imp]

I agree with both of you. Honda makes a perfectly fine motorcycle which can be ridden forever as is with no issues. I also believe it can be modified to make it perform better.

CIP I think your figure of at least 50% of us modifying for performance is way off. I'm thinking no more than 5% if you include Staintune exhaust buyers who are usually not doing it for performance, but for sound.

I think if you took a poll of just the PCV users the numbers would be much higher.

[ClassicVW_imp]

I also think the number of performance modifications is much lower. I'll guess 10-15%. There's a silent majority of buyers who like the bike the way it is, or who are not comfortable changing things around.

[the Ferret]

Discussing, not arguing......

We have 1600 members or at least people who have joined. Lets say 10% of those don't have a CB but want one. Lets say the other 90% have purchased a CB. You are looking at 1440 CB owners. Of the 1440 you think more than 770 have made a performance change like pipe or PCV? ( often the first 2 performance mods right?

My figure at 5% would be 72. That may be a little low, but I'm betting of the 1440 there are no more than 150 who have modded their bike the a power commander or pipe. Performance mods are usually a young guys thing 18-30 year olds and this is an old guys bike.

When we did the age survey something like 85% of owners were between 47 and 70. Hardly the group to be performance modding. Many in the age group to buy a CB 1100 have no idea what a PCV does, or where it goes, or how to program it for that matter. They would understand a pipe, but Honda saw fit to include a sexy 4 into 1 on the 13's and beautiful chrome 4 into 2s on the 14 dlx. If Honda would have made their pipes louder from the factory I bet less than 1% would spend $1000-$1500 on a pipe just to gain 3 or 4 hp.

Like has been said many times before, this isn't the bike for performance enthusiasts. Those looking for more power, in any substantial amount, would benefit from looking at other bikes. Heck from what I have seen, with a pipe, a PCV and a reflash the 3 owners who have done this I can think of ( maybe you know of more?) are still barely breaking the 90 hp barrier. About a 6 HP gain according to dyno charts I have seen. Hardly worth the expense and effort, when you can walk into any of the big 4 Japanese bike shops, plop down similar money that was paid for a CB 1100 and walk out with between 140 and 160 HP.

I'm betting more of our members have bought comfort items (seat, windshield) than have bought performance items. Having said that, I still believe the CB 1100 can be made to run better, stronger than it came from the factory for the reasons you mentioned..federally mandated epa stuff. How much better, or if the effort is worth the expense has yet to be seen.

[The Spaceman_imp]

I also think the number of performance modifications is much lower. I'll guess 10-15%. There's a silent majority of buyers who like the bike the way it is, or who are not comfortable changing things around.

I've always wanted to be part of the Silent Majority, but I have a big mouth and I'm always running it. I guess that makes me part of the Oral Majority. (That's what SHE said...HAH!!). Which reminds me of the TV preacher, Oral Roberts, who has recently been replaced by his son, Anal Roberts. But I digress...

It seems like every time I make a mod I wind up putting it back like it was. The K/N was one. The 2Bros exhaust did "feel" faster, and it really makes a great sound, but after reading how much energy the Honda engineers put into tuning the powerband, I felt compelled to put the OEM system back too. With or without the intake / exhaust mods, the bike never felt like it needs a PC. Unlike other bikes I've known that definitely needed one with ANY mods at all.

[DGShannon_imp]

Discussing, not arguing......

We have 1600 members or at least people who have joined. Lets say 10% of those don't have a CB but want one. Lets say the other 90% have purchased a CB. You are looking at 1440 CB owners. Of the 1440 you think more than 770 have made a performance change like pipe or PCV? ( often the first 2 performance mods right?

My figure at 5% would be 72. That may be a little low, but I'm betting of the 1440 there are no more than 150 who have modded their bike the a power commander or pipe. Performance mods are usually a young guys thing 18-30 year olds and this is an old guys bike.

When we did the age survey something like 85% of owners were between 47 and 70. Hardly the group to be performance modding. Many in the age group to buy a CB 1100 have no idea what a PCV does, or where it goes, or how to program it for that matter. They would understand a pipe, but Honda saw fit to include a sexy 4 into 1 on the 13's and beautiful chrome 4 into 2s on the 14 dlx. If Honda would have made their pipes louder from the factory I bet less than 1% would spend $1000-$1500 on a pipe just to gain 3 or 4 hp.

Like has been said many times before, this isn't the bike for performance enthusiasts. Those looking for more power, in any substantial amount, would benefit from looking at other bikes. Heck from what I have seen, with a pipe, a PCV and a reflash the 3 owners who have done this I can think of ( maybe you know of more?) are still barely breaking the 90 hp barrier. About a 6 HP gain according to dyno charts I have seen. Hardly worth the expense and effort, when you can walk into any of the big 4 Japanese bike shops, plop down similar money that was paid for a CB 1100 and walk out with between 140 and 160 HP.

I'm betting more of our members have bought comfort items (seat, windshield) than have bought performance items. Having said that, I still believe the CB 1100 can be made to run better, stronger than it came from the factory for the reasons you mentioned..federally mandated epa stuff. How much better, or if the effort is worth the expense has yet to be seen.

Agree from the standpoint of the EPA stuff. I think that the extremely talented Honda engineers did the absolute best they could in light of the mandates and requirements they had to meet. For me, there are certain mods, such as the PCV, where you are just trying to undo the mandate handcuffs, and get the bike back to what the engineers designed as the best base before they had to cripple it with the mandates.

As I ponder the CB1100, it seems that the PCV, or ECU flash, to remove the overly lean fuel injection settings is a sound bet. Other items discussed (pipes, air filter, intake mods, etc.) may not be.

[ClassicVW_imp]

You really nailed it, ferret, I completely agree.