Horn/Flash Button Reverse Idea

[2017EX_imp]

Most of the Mods I do are either small cosmetic, or what I consider piratical. I have been discussing a potential Mod with an old friend and riding buddy, who also has a CB1100 and is a Forum member as well. I thought I would throw it out there and see what everyone here might think of the idea.

Back in the day, the horn was a button in the bottom position on the left switch housing, with the turn signal switch just above the horn button. For that reason, some members have substituted a 2013 switch housing to get back to that configuration, as 2014 up models reverse the position of those two controls.

From what I have experienced over the years, and more so with my 2017, I find that when I need my horn, I need it quickly, and frequently that by the time I have found the horn button ( current bike horn buttons are more like a paddle ) , the need has come and gone. This got me to thinking, looking at the ergonomics of switch position, handlebar grip, and hand/finger dexterity.

For me, the motion with my thumb to find the horn button is somewhat unnatural, with the added detractor of releasing thumb grip on the handlebar. That motion and loss of thumb grip is not a big deal, and not urgent when using the turn signal switch, but grip, urgency, and clutching could be significant related to horn use.

I rarely use the "flash to pass" button, and when I do it is not urgent. This made me wonder, suppose the flash to pass became the horn, and the horn became the flash to pass? The index finger is more agile than the thumb, the flash to pass is very close to the index finger in riding position, and thumb grip on the handlebar would be preserved. Clutching could still be easily done with the remaining 3 fingers. This might NOT be a good idea for riders that have years of muscle memory, as in members that have gone to the 2013 switch housing.

I think that reversing the flash and horn switches could probably be relatively easily done without cutting, and could be put back to stock if the owner did not like it or needed/wanted to sell the bike. If memory serves, the wire harness leads are permanently attached ( riveted? ) to their respective switches inside the switch housing. The reverse and/or restore to original could then be done by tracing the wires from the respective switches in the switch housing, to the connectors at the end of the switch housing leads inside the headlight bucket. At the connector/s release the switch wire pins for only the horn and flash from their connectors and plug the horn pins back into where the flash connector pins were, the flash pins back into where the horn connector pins were.

Before trying this myself, I wanted to get feedback from the membership on the idea, Pro and Con, as there may be factors I have not thought of. What does everyone think?

[LongRanger_imp]

I think this is a great idea, though I can't comment on whether the wiring swap will be that straightforward.

I find it odd that Honda uses a rocker switch to toggle between main beam and high beam, and a separate switch for flash-to-pass. I'd much prefer to see the flash-to-pass switch used for both functions. At rest, the main beam is on. Pull it in for flash-to-pass. And push it out for high beam.

This would allow Honda to remove the main beam / high beam toggle and replace it with the turn signal switch. Then, the horn button could be relocated back to its rightful spot at thumb level.

[misterprofessionality]

Hahahah!! I was just saying this to SCCBrider on a ride together a few weeks ago. I really wish my horn was on the flash button, it would be so much easier to reach quickly and efficiently.

[2017EX_imp]

I think this is a great idea, though I can't comment on whether the wiring swap will be that straightforward.

I find it odd that Honda uses a rocker switch to toggle between main beam and high beam, and a separate switch for flash-to-pass. I'd much prefer to see the flash-to-pass switch used for both functions. At rest, the main beam is on. Pull it in for flash-to-pass. And push it out for high beam.

This would allow Honda to remove the main beam / high beam toggle and replace it with the turn signal switch. Then, the horn button could be relocated back to its rightful spot at thumb level.

I dont know whether it would be that simple or not either. Maybe we have some electrical Gurus here on the forum that can take a peek at the wiring diagram for an informed opinion as to whether or not it would work that simply. I am guessing all we are talking about is juice and ground for each switch, and I would not think there would be any significant difference in current draw between the two functions.

[pekingduck]

I think that if you have to think about it for even one micro-second, it partly defeats the purpose. If you've learned one way for 40 years, that reaction of instinct/panic is critical. On my 2014, I changed to a 2013 switch just for that reason.

I've put 100k miles on a couple 1st gen 650 V-Stroms, and Suzuki, on their 2012 models, changed the trigger finger high beam switch into one that changes meter mileage modes. I tried every way to re-wire that switch but couldn't, eventually trimming the trigger down and adding an external micro-switch for the flasher below it. Not as natural to activate, but better than "changing to trip meter B" at an oncoming car.

I have to think that the new young designers do not grasp that there is no beneit to some of their arbitrary or ignorant changes.

[LongRanger_imp]

I've suggested for years that motorcycle hand controls should be standardized across models and manufacturers. At least we're all now shifting with the left toe and rear-braking with the right...

[max]

I think this is a great idea, though I can't comment on whether the wiring swap will be that straightforward.

I find it odd that Honda uses a rocker switch to toggle between main beam and high beam, and a separate switch for flash-to-pass. I'd much prefer to see the flash-to-pass switch used for both functions. At rest, the main beam is on. Pull it in for flash-to-pass. And push it out for high beam.

This would allow Honda to remove the main beam / high beam toggle and replace it with the turn signal switch. Then, the horn button could be relocated back to its rightful spot at thumb level.

I dont know whether it would be that simple or not either. Maybe we have some electrical Gurus here on the forum that can take a peek at the wiring diagram for an informed opinion as to whether or not it would work that simply. I am guessing all we are talking about is juice and ground for each switch, and I would not think there would be any significant difference in current draw between the two functions.

I dont know whether it would be that simple or not either. Maybe we have some electrical Gurus here on the forum that can take a peek at the wiring diagram for an informed opinion as to whether or not it would work that simply. I am guessing all we are talking about is juice and ground for each switch, and I would not think there would be any significant difference in current draw between the two functions.
After looking at a diagram it works like this;
1; horn and brake light are supplied by a 10a fuse ( # E ) and the horn switch supplies 12v to a black wire to both horns, apparently 10a is sufficient.

2; the "flash" switch supplies 12v to the high beam BUT it is connected to the blue "high beam" wire internaly together with the high-low beam black rocker switch.

so although they both supply 12v the blue high beam wire has to be disconnected inside the handlebar housing and re-routed to the headlight bucket where it can then be swapped for the new function unless you change the handle bar housing internally ( swap the black for the blue wires )

I vaguely remember a similar query some time ago and i'm with peking duck's idea.

[SportsterDoc]

I frequently used the high beam trigger on my last 3 street bikes.
Am much more likely to flash than honk
Honking maybe for car backing out in parking lot, otherwise the high beam flashed for

1. On coming traffic passing in my lane, especially on Nevada highway 93 - long flash, then off-on repeat until situation clears

2. Signal to allow vehicle to change lanes - quick flash

3. Flash presence approaching intersection where a car may pull out/turn left in front of me - usually 3 rapid flashes

I posted this on the XLForum, March 2017...may not be a typical ride, but something to think about (note the MPG of the 744 cc MG, not much different from the CB's 11440 ccs):

Took the Moto Guzzi up to Pahranagat Lakes, refueled in Ash Springs and doubled back to Alamo for lunch at the Windmill Ridge Restaurant and bakery.

Had a couple chances to see what only 744 cc will do. 107 MPH (and climbing) is 6500 RPM in 6th gear on a carefully chosen stretch of highway.

Most of the time doing 80/85 MPH. Gong north on highway 93 I came up on a car traveling at a comfortable speed and decided less head-on potential if I shadowed him about 200 feet back. Due to grades and a few curves, typical speed was 70-85. After many miles, I see brakelights, a nose dive and the car goes far right, without going onto a rocky shoulder. I do the same, as a P/U finally completes passing a long line of big rigs.

OK, not surprising on a long 2 lane desert road.

After refueling at Ash Springs (48 MPG), I head back towards the restaurant. This time a mini van is passing a long line of big rigs, sees me and does a nose dive alongside one of the trucks. I am only doing about 70, reduce speed (45?) and go to the shoulder (2-3 feet of asphalt). We passed with him fully in my lane.

OK, glad I was paying attention.

After lunch, I continue back south and have an almost repeat of situation #2. This time no shoulder, other than a slope of gravel and larger rock. I go to the edge of the lane as the minivan (yes, another one), barely makes it back into his lane.

Fortunately, for all three of these, I was at or close to 70 MPH speed limit.

Was this a test of 70 year old reactions?!
At least I was not dodging deer near the lakes!

Refueled at the truck stop where 93 meets interstate 15 and got almost 54 MPG.

Should be tamer going to Stovepipe Wells in Death Valley in two weeks...about 300 mile loop, if I return through Beatty...also more tranquil speeds, other than highway 95 coming SE from Beatty.

Only 1232 miles now on the V7 II.

[redbirds_imp]

This thread reminded me of the ease of use and simplicity of my '73 BMW. Although bike magazine testers of that time hated them I found BMW switches the most intuitive ever designed. A simple combination lever-push button on both left and right switch housings controlled starter, turn signals, horn and high beam. Because there was only one switch to cover on each side your thumbs were always in position to activate the function wanted. The right lever-button was push to start, or the lever flipped up for left turn and down for right. The left lever-button was push for horn or flipped up for high beam. You never hunted for the right switch to use as there was only one to cover. Easy and very fast to use.

Didn't mean to take this thread astray just thought it may be of interest.

[Cormanus]

While we’re digressing, cars manufactured specifically for right hand drive markets have their indicator stalks on the right hand side of the steering column. European. Are imported to Australia have their indicator stalks on the left hand side of the steering column. Of course the control for the wipers is on the opposite side.

It’s very frustrating turning on the wipers to indicate a turn and it doesn’t seem to matter how long I drove a European manufactured car, I still did it occasionally.