Performance upgrades.

[PowerDubs_imp]

Sure the cams didn't make a lot of power... for now.

Like any other engine build- it's a game of finding and removing whatever the current cork is.

Meaning- the cams may very well be capable of more- once I 'fix' something else.

Could I have put in more aggressive cams? Sure. Would I have lost low end? Probably. Did I want to do that? No- So what I chose is what is appropriate for my goals.

Any gain- without a loss- is a win.

And yea....I'm sure I can still find more power out of this bike.

I didn't start this- you did. So moving on....

[Motomike7_imp]

Dude, why do you keep sending me PM’s?

You do crack me up as you gained all of 3 hp doing a cam swap and then want to brag about it. Who has something to learn?

You stuck a 220 degree duration @.050 in a 9.5-1 motor and are then surprised that you only made 3 hp? I could have saved you the trouble…

No I’m not a kid, been flying jets for 25+ yrs and have done a little hot rodding as evidenced by my pictures. I’ve got a 69 vette and 3 bikes in the garage, not bragging but just wanted to show that I’m not a novice either.

Anyway carry on, I’m sure you can squeeze another 2-3 hp out of your build…

ive never seen someone so **** and jealous before lol. youre forgetting this man is making his own camshafts, that's defiantly something to brag about. if you have something to add to the convrosation then go ahead, if youre just going to be **** then move on before you dig the hole deeper lol.

ive never seen someone so **** and jealous before lol. youre forgetting this man is making his own camshafts, that's defiantly something to brag about. if you have something to add to the convrosation then go ahead, if youre just going to be **** then move on before you dig the hole deeper lol.
I don’t know what hole you are taking about. He made all of 3 hp with his “custom” cam grind….I’m sure there are many lining up to spend their hard earned money on such a outstanding performance gain…why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and order a set of cams from him

youre forgetting this man is making his own camshafts, that's defiantly something to brag about. if you have something to add to the convrosation then go ahead, if youre just going to be .... then move on before you dig the hole deeper lol.
I don’t know what hole you are taking about. He made all of 3 hp with his “custom” cam grind….I’m sure there are many lining up to spend their hard earned money on such a outstanding performance gain…why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and order a set of cams from him
He is designing custom cams with absolutely nothing to go off of lol. do you think the big aftermarket company's get the perfect cam the first time they make one? how many cams have you made? take a step back and look at what youre saying lol. if its so unimpressive you do it and put your money where your mouth is. I already told him id buy a set of cams whenever he feels like his design is good enough to sell.

[1985CB450_imp]

I’m dense, ok so you called me **** and jealous….

First, I didn’t go to the expense and trouble of swapping a set of cams for a paltry 3 hp gain so I’ve got nothing to be ***** about…

Second, I’ve got a 3 car garage with a convertible fully restored 69 Corvette, a vintage Ducati Super Sport, a H-D Street Glide, and a brand new Z900RS and I do most of my own work so what could I possibly be jealous of?

No sir I’m not the dense one…

[the Ferret]

WARNING

Ok this is getting to be a bit derogatory. Keep it up and I will delete the posts that contain derogatory postings. I have already edited what I felt to be offensive.

Remember the rules..we can disagree but it can't be derodatory. No name calling, no slandering, be civil.

If you want to get down in the dirt with each other, take it to PM's, don't post it here.

[1985CB450_imp]

not to fan the flames but from my experience, the head (and valves) on these bikes, and the compression ratio is the main offender in the motor holding back HP after opening up the TB restriction, exhaust, and then of course fuel mapping. Have said it for years. I actually have a spare head i bought a few yrs ago I may eventually dig into, deck, and get some bigger valves put in after i port it. But, im also not chasing HP on this really, so thats why i haven't done it, i might get bored enough one day to tear into it but im sure that's years down the road for me. You're only going to squeeze so much thru those valves @ that size. .02

Yes sir thanks for weighing in

Too much cam without enough compression is prob the #1 mistake in doing cam upgrades. It’s the reason most large cam companies will spec the min compression ratio required when selecting a particular grind

The original motor in my 69 vette was the L-46 350ci rated 350 hp with 11-1 compression. The stock GM camshaft was 224 degrees duration at .050…Granted that was back in the days of 103 octane fuel but still pretty impressive nonetheless considering they were running iron heads. Absolutely no way to get by with that now on the junk pump gas we use today

[1985CB450_imp]

I ran into similar issues with my 390 and my buddys 440, had to crank up the 'calculated' compression to compensate to the loss due to valve overlap on his motor setup, and the little bit i had in mine ( i have a mild cam but still lost some). On the FE, I went w aluminum heads and a better combustion chamber design & pistons and can run pump fuel with 10.5 all day long w 38 degrees max timing. try that with FE iron heads and its ping city. Point being, the heads are where the power is, every time, if the stock setup is fairly dismal. But it all has to match, which i -think- is what you are driving at.

Yes my point exactly

Some of the vintage Corvette guys I know that run iron heads to be period correct will overcam on purpose to bleed off some dynamic compression. As you know, closing the intake later will help to keep it from rattling at the trade off of losing some low end tq.

I get away with 10.5-1 on my vette by running alum heads like you and having good gearing (3:73) along with a manual transmission (TKO600) it’s a very light car as well (no a/c, manual steering, manual brakes) and I run a 15 lb flywheel so it spools up very quick

It goes against everything I know loading up an engine at low rpm and kinda why I chuckle when folks here start bragging about tq numbers at 2000 rpm…maybe on a H-D forum but on an inline 4 that’s what the gearbox is for

[Motomike7_imp]

WARNING

Ok this is getting to be a bit derogatory. Keep it up and I will delete the posts that contain derogatory postings. I have already edited what I felt to be offensive.

Remember the rules..we can disagree but it can't be derodatory. No name calling, no slandering, be civil.

If you want to get down in the dirt with each other, take it to PM's, don't post it here.

roger that, knew Id run into it when I posted but didn't expect the persistence from some. ill just let him burn himself out, I just don't see the need to attack someone for wanting to mod their own bike. apologies for my part.

[1985CB450_imp]

Burn out, not hardly

It’s beautiful here in Dallas today, think I’ll take the vette for a spin - top down of course - and if I have time later maybe a short hop on the ol 900SS

Cheers

[1985CB450_imp]

Sure the cams didn't make a lot of power... for now.

Like any other engine build- it's a game of finding and removing whatever the current cork is.

Meaning- the cams may very well be capable of more- once I 'fix' something else.

Could I have put in more aggressive cams? Sure. Would I have lost low end? Probably. Did I want to do that? No- So what I chose is what is appropriate for my goals.

Any gain- without a loss- is a win.

And yea....I'm sure I can still find more power out of this bike.

I didn't start this- you did. So moving on....

Hopefully the mods will respectfully let me set the record straight.

First, you asked what other retro makes equivalent power to your modified CB1100. I replied the z900RS as it not only makes more power but it’s also a retro bike. The revel of retro is debatable yea but I’ve seen all the mags call it a retro and it’s been in a bunch of retro magazine shootouts so I fell pretty safe calling it what it is and that’s a retro.

Second, I don’t use PM’s as the mods can verify and have never sent one prior to responding to you. Your messaged me about how your bike makes xxx torque down low and how the Z900RS is gonna need to downshift to catch you…blah blah blah. You don’t ride a performance bike or drive a performance car in high gear at low rpm, at least I don’t and no one I know personally does. Granted the CB1100 is ideally suited to such but I don’t really consider it a performance bike. If you need a downshift to accelerate quickly you are simply in the wrong gear.

Third, dynos are very subjective. Comparing your specific dyno numbers with numbers out of of a magizine are absurd. Relative humidity, atmosphere pressure, ambient temperature, elevation…..ect all make a huge difference in performance. As someone who has spent the last 25+ years flying jets for a living I know performance data, a takeoff out of Las Vegas at 110 degrees is much different vs Chicago at 50 degrees. All factors mentioned above apply not to mention the varying tolerances between the actual dynos themselves. A dyno is a great tool to measure differences between changes on the same day under the same conditions. Anything else is foolishness.

Last, as someone who has done at least a dozen cam swaps between cars and bikes I was simply stating a fact that I have learned first hand. At 9.5-1 the CB is not suited to run any cam at 220 degrees duration @.050 or greater. Ask any reputable engine builder and they will tell you the same. The longer you hold the valves open the more compression you need. Desktop dyno is a great tool to evaluate static vs dynamic compression. As camshaft duration increases dynamic compression decreases as it’s based on when the intake valve closes as the cylinder can’t make pressure until the intake closes. If dynamic goes too low due to too much duration the engine will suffer poor low end performance but wil be less prone to detonate. On the other hand high dynamic compression will build cylinder pressure early and give good low end but the engine will be more prone to detonate especially at high load low rpm conditions. This is why static compression must be matched with the cams duration for optimal performance.

If you want to respectfully rebuke anything I’ve said please do. If not good luck with your endeavors

[PowerDubs_imp]

Sure the cams didn't make a lot of power... for now.

Like any other engine build- it's a game of finding and removing whatever the current cork is.

Meaning- the cams may very well be capable of more- once I 'fix' something else.

Could I have put in more aggressive cams? Sure. Would I have lost low end? Probably. Did I want to do that? No- So what I chose is what is appropriate for my goals.

Any gain- without a loss- is a win.

And yea....I'm sure I can still find more power out of this bike.

I didn't start this- you did. So moving on....

Hopefully the mods will respectfully let me set the record straight.

First, you asked what other retro makes equivalent power to your modified CB1100. I replied the z900RS as it not only makes more power but it’s also a retro bike. The revel of retro is debatable yea but I’ve seen all the mags call it a retro and it’s been in a bunch of retro magazine shootouts so I fell pretty safe calling it what it is and that’s a retro.

Second, I don’t use PM’s as the mods can verify and have never sent one prior to responding to you. Your messaged me about how your bike makes xxx torque down low and how the Z900RS is gonna need to downshift to catch you…blah blah blah. You don’t ride a performance bike or drive a performance car in high gear at low rpm, at least I don’t and no one I know personally does. Granted the CB1100 is ideally suited to such but I don’t really consider it a performance bike. If you need a downshift to accelerate quickly you are simply in the wrong gear.

Third, dynos are very subjective. Comparing your specific dyno numbers with numbers out of of a magizine are absurd. Relative humidity, atmosphere pressure, ambient temperature, elevation…..ect all make a huge difference in performance. As someone who has spent the last 25+ years flying jets for a living I know performance data, a takeoff out of Las Vegas at 110 degrees is much different vs Chicago at 50 degrees. All factors mentioned above apply not to mention the varying tolerances between the actual dynos themselves. A dyno is a great tool to measure differences between changes on the same day under the same conditions. Anything else is foolishness.

Last, as someone who has done at least a dozen cam swaps between cars and bikes I was simply stating a fact that I have learned first hand. At 9.5-1 the CB is not suited to run any cam at 220 degrees duration @.050 or greater. Ask any reputable engine builder and they will tell you the same. The longer you hold the valves open the more compression you need. Desktop dyno is a great tool to evaluate static vs dynamic compression. As camshaft duration increases dynamic compression decreases as it’s based on when the intake valve closes as the cylinder can’t make pressure until the intake closes. If dynamic goes too low due to too much duration the engine will suffer poor low end performance but wil be less prone to detonate. On the other hand high dynamic compression will build cylinder pressure early and give good low end but the engine will be more prone to detonate especially at high load low rpm conditions. This is why static compression must be matched with the cams duration for optimal performance.

If you want to respectfully rebuke anything I’ve said please do. If not good luck with your endeavors

There are things called correction factors. It takes all that into account.

Not sure how you didn't know that- just like how you spoke of advertised crank hp stats in comparison to wheel hp.

Dynojet are EXTREMELY comparable. I had a car here in NJ and a friend with the exact same car in Cali. We both had the exact same modifications- same ecu software, same intake, same cams, same headers, same high flow cats, same exhaust...and guess what? When we compared dyno runs- they looked like they were done by the same exact car even though we were thousands of miles away from each other.

Again- a person with experience would know that.

Going from one BRAND / TYPE of dyno to another is a different story and a no-no. There is a reason the pro's use Dynojet.

I've had 4-5 different camshaft sets just in one of my cars alone. I've put cams in dirtbikes, atv, cars, motorcycles. I've ported cylinder heads, big valves, custom intake manifolds, bored cylinders, countless different headers, high flow cats, mufflers, ecu tunes, carb tunes, I've made automatic cars into stick shifts, made drum brake cars into all wheel disk with factory ABS. Put in a long stroke block, crank scraper, you name it. Speaking of cam timing on compression ratio in fact- I've converted static DOHC over to a centrifugal mechanical variable valve timing decades ago.

And this is all on German cars- not simple old American stuff that any 10 y/o can work on.



We can stop this back and forth now.. you aren't teaching me anything I don't know...but seems you could use some learning.