crankshaft balancer backlash adjustment

[kDiqq_imp]

Huh! You’re never too old to learn something. I never heard of bores getting smaller as the block heated up. I kinda still doubt it. As a block heats up it gets longer and wider. The cylinder bores get larger exactly proportionally. Aluminum expands more than steel or cast iron with the same increase in temperature. Typical hot rod lore includes the knowledge that forged aluminum pistons expand quite a bit and when given proper clearance, piston slap will happen until they heat up and take up proper clearance. Actually all engines have piston slap: The wrist pins are offset toward the thrust face so the piston (the largest and most critical bearing in the engine) rotate the skirt fully against the cylinder bore to take advantage of the full skirt for bearing area under the firing stroke. Conversely the pistons attempt to rock the opposite way on the intake stroke. This is very small movement and not heard on a good motor. Modern hypereutectic pistons have recipes in their casting materials, which minimize the difference between thermal expansion of the cylinder and pistons making piston slap loud enough to hear rare.

I believe motorcycle owners that aren’t gear heads worry overmuch about noises, especially in air-cooled motors. Large flat cast covers and fins have harmonics and can amplify noises. Honda is so aware of this I’m sure every cover, fin, every casting is engineered around this and many other parameters. They have done an amazing job and the casual rider has no concept of the depth of their research and knowledge over the years. There is violence going on inside these motors. Controlled explosions, valves opening and closing rapidly, pistons coming to the top only to be yanked back to the bottom at great rates. There will be noise, and we love all those noises. All motors have their signature noises. It is wonderful we can experience this. Try not to worry.

I haven’t got my shop manual from Helms yet but why are people calling the balancer an “engine and transmission balancer”? All inline fours vibrate in a vertical plain at twice the frequency of crankshaft rpm. Nothing in the transmission needs balancing.

On aluminum motors, you're right, they swell a bunch with heating up. But they swell in every direction meaning it swells the bores as well, causing that gap to close up when it heats up. I actually work for a forge and on our bored parts they experience the exact same thing in heat treat and hot inspection. The bores are much smaller (for the steels we forge it's on the magnitude of 1.0xx). I witness it every day. Aluminum blocks work the same way. That's why GM began coating bores in an anti-slip compound that's supposed to burn off and coat the bore. The knocking comes from the bore being slightly oversize. I've never heard about the skirt being load-bearing because it extends below the bore and enters the crankcase. But idk, I've been wrong before. You should know though that hypereutectic pistons have a MUCH lower coefficient of thermal expansion than regular aluminum. Has to do with adding for more silicone that what's soluble in liquid aluminum.

I wasn't really aware that my experience over worrysome... I've built and rebuilt a few of these air cooled engines, but this was the older SOHC and DOHC rocker arm motors. I never took note of the firing angle but 4 cylinders are inherently unbalanced. A fantastic example is the 4 cyl in the older Toyota Tacoma. Pre-balance shaft engines would shake the dash at idle. I believe this is the 22RE motor. They require balance shafts. This engine is no exception.

That being said I do know what a 'signature noise' is and what knocking is. This isn't a normal noise. Its knocking. And anyone else experience this noise I think has a valid reason to worry. We aren't all gear heads but I don't think we should be so quick to undermine a concerned forum members concerns. We are all about help here.

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

That really sounds to me like an exhaust leak. Is the cat split, or the O2 sensor loose?

Unfortunately, exhaust is fine. I'd be happy if the issue was that simple. Weld it back up in a few seconds! Haha thanks for the input though!!

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

[Stary Motocyklista_imp]

Huh! You’re never too old to learn something. I never heard of bores getting smaller as the block heated up. I kinda still doubt it. As a block heats up it gets longer and wider. The cylinder bores get larger exactly proportionally. Aluminum expands more than steel or cast iron with the same increase in temperature. Typical hot rod lore includes the knowledge that forged aluminum pistons expand quite a bit and when given proper clearance, piston slap will happen until they heat up and take up proper clearance. Actually all engines have piston slap: The wrist pins are offset toward the thrust face so the piston (the largest and most critical bearing in the engine) rotate the skirt fully against the cylinder bore to take advantage of the full skirt for bearing area under the firing stroke. Conversely the pistons attempt to rock the opposite way on the intake stroke. This is very small movement and not heard on a good motor. Modern hypereutectic pistons have recipes in their casting materials, which minimize the difference between thermal expansion of the cylinder and pistons making piston slap loud enough to hear rare.

I believe motorcycle owners that aren’t gear heads worry overmuch about noises, especially in air-cooled motors. Large flat cast covers and fins have harmonics and can amplify noises. Honda is so aware of this I’m sure every cover, fin, every casting is engineered around this and many other parameters. They have done an amazing job and the casual rider has no concept of the depth of their research and knowledge over the years. There is violence going on inside these motors. Controlled explosions, valves opening and closing rapidly, pistons coming to the top only to be yanked back to the bottom at great rates. There will be noise, and we love all those noises. All motors have their signature noises. It is wonderful we can experience this. Try not to worry.

I haven’t got my shop manual from Helms yet but why are people calling the balancer an “engine and transmission balancer”? All inline fours vibrate in a vertical plain at twice the frequency of crankshaft rpm. Nothing in the transmission needs balancing.

On aluminum motors, you're right, they swell a bunch with heating up. But they swell in every direction meaning it swells the bores as well, causing that gap to close up when it heats up. I actually work for a forge and on our bored parts they experience the exact same thing in heat treat and hot inspection. The bores are much smaller (for the steels we forge it's on the magnitude of 1.0xx). I witness it every day. Aluminum blocks work the same way. That's why GM began coating bores in an anti-slip compound that's supposed to burn off and coat the bore. The knocking comes from the bore being slightly oversize. I've never heard about the skirt being load-bearing because it extends below the bore and enters the crankcase. But idk, I've been wrong before. You should know though that hypereutectic pistons have a MUCH lower coefficient of thermal expansion than regular aluminum. Has to do with adding for more silicone that what's soluble in liquid aluminum.

I wasn't really aware that my experience over worrysome... I've built and rebuilt a few of these air cooled engines, but this was the older SOHC and DOHC rocker arm motors. I never took note of the firing angle but 4 cylinders are inherently unbalanced. A fantastic example is the 4 cyl in the older Toyota Tacoma. Pre-balance shaft engines would shake the dash at idle. I believe this is the 22RE motor. They require balance shafts. This engine is no exception.

That being said I do know what a 'signature noise' is and what knocking is. This isn't a normal noise. Its knocking. And anyone else experience this noise I think has a valid reason to worry. We aren't all gear heads but I don't think we should be so quick to undermine a concerned forum members concerns. We are all about help here.

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

That really sounds to me like an exhaust leak. Is the cat split, or the O2 sensor loose?

Unfortunately, exhaust is fine. I'd be happy if the issue was that simple. Weld it back up in a few seconds! Haha thanks for the input though!!

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

On aluminum motors, you're right, they swell a bunch with heating up. But they swell in every direction meaning it swells the bores as well, causing that gap to close up when it heats up. I actually work for a forge and on our bored parts they experience the exact same thing in heat treat and hot inspection. The bores are much smaller (for the steels we forge it's on the magnitude of 1.0xx). I witness it every day. Aluminum blocks work the same way. That's why GM began coating bores in an anti-slip compound that's supposed to burn off and coat the bore. The knocking comes from the bore being slightly oversize. I've never heard about the skirt being load-bearing because it extends below the bore and enters the crankcase. But idk, I've been wrong before. You should know though that hypereutectic pistons have a MUCH lower coefficient of thermal expansion than regular aluminum. Has to do with adding for more silicone that what's soluble in liquid aluminum.

I wasn't really aware that my experience over worrysome... I've built and rebuilt a few of these air cooled engines, but this was the older SOHC and DOHC rocker arm motors. I never took note of the firing angle but 4 cylinders are inherently unbalanced. A fantastic example is the 4 cyl in the older Toyota Tacoma. Pre-balance shaft engines would shake the dash at idle. I believe this is the 22RE motor. They require balance shafts. This engine is no exception.

That being said I do know what a 'signature noise' is and what knocking is. This isn't a normal noise. Its knocking. And anyone else experience this noise I think has a valid reason to worry. We aren't all gear heads but I don't think we should be so quick to undermine a concerned forum members concerns. We are all about help here.

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk

That really sounds to me like an exhaust leak. Is the cat split, or the O2 sensor loose?

Unfortunately, exhaust is fine. I'd be happy if the issue was that simple. Weld it back up in a few seconds! Haha thanks for the input though!!

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk
Well OK then.

[Ghis_imp]

Thank you guys! I checked out the video from CIP57, as well as the video posted by dBuster. It's the exact same sound mine does. And of course it too started right after the 600 miles service. It was perfect before that. I will be switching back to 10w30 this Saturday.

[Speed_imp]

When my engine's bike is cold I can hear a sound similar to a chain backlash in Neutral when accelerating and releasing the gas suddenly. When it heats up a little bit it dissapears. Have any of you heard this noise in your bikes? The temperatures right now here are from 0 degrees celsius to 10 degrees... I am pretty shure is the balancer backlash. The bike is now 1800 Km.

[Lord Popgun]

The adjustment is easy. From the book:

Loosen the balancer shaft holder pinch bolt.
Turn the balance shaft counterclockwise until resistance is felt, then back it off three graduations using the punch mark as a measure.

Warm up the engine and let it idle.
If balancer gear noises are excessive, adjust the balancer backlash as follows:

turn the balance gear shaft counterclockwise until the gears begin to make a "whining" noise. Then turn the gear shaft clockwise until the gear '
"whining" noise disappears.

Tighten the balancer shaft pinch bolt.

After all gear backlash adjustments are done, snap the throttle and make sure the gear noises are not excessive.

If the gear "whine" noise is excessive, the backlash is too small.
If the gear "rattling" noise is excessive, the backlash is excessive.

And that's it!

Edit to add: there is a video in the How-to section.

[Ulvetanna_imp]

The balancer shaft makes a knocking sound that is very disturbing to those who know what a rod knocking sounds like. This engine is a rock-solid piece of work, they all make that sound. Just do that little procedure as above. I didn't need to go to the second step, the first step cleared up my issue. Engine is a great design.

[Pterodactyl_imp]

When doing the final adjustment with the engine running, to be sure of when you hear whining or rattling may not be very clear to those whose hearing is not as it should be. The solution is to do the adjustment with a medium to long blade flat screwdriver and, while turning the adjuster, place an ear to the handle and listen to the sound transmitted through the driver. There is no mistaking what is going on.

Cheers

[curlyjoe_imp]

When doing the final adjustment with the engine running, to be sure of when you hear whining or rattling may not be very clear to those whose hearing is not as it should be. The solution is to do the adjustment with a medium to long blade flat screwdriver and, while turning the adjuster, place an ear to the handle and listen to the sound transmitted through the driver. There is no mistaking what is going on.

Cheers

Cool. Can't wait to try this out.

[olekzap_imp]

Thanks to all for bringing up this adjustment. I had no idea it existed.

I was experiencing all the symptoms that Matt said this fixed on his CB, sloppy shifting and a choppy feeling when closing the throttle even though my chain and cables were adjusted fine. I was honestly starting to fall out of love with this motorcycle because it just didn't feel as polished as a bike with this much engineering put into it should.

Before my commute home today I let it warm up and while it was doing so I could easily hear the knock in the lower end that multiple people on here have noticed. It sounded bad. I adjusted just about between making the whirring noise on in the top end and the clacky noise in the bottom end and rode home. It's like a new motorcycle. Shifting from 1st to 2nd is finally smooth. Shifting all over actually is so much better. It feels much more confident overall.

[Lord Popgun]

Alright Olekzap! How many mile are on you bike, if you don't mind me asking?