Oil cooler

[Carguy1959_imp]

I believe the later Nighthawks had a smaller oil cooler...

[Pterodactyl_imp]

'nuff said.

Mmmm. Liquid cooled motorcycles have a very long history, dating back to the early 1900s. For example would you consider a liquid cooled motorcycle manufactured in, say, 1908 "Retro"? That's about as "Retro" as you can get

Cheers

Mmmm. Liquid cooled motorcycles have a very long history, dating back to the early 1900s. For example would you consider a liquid cooled motorcycle manufactured in, say, 1908 "Retro"? That's about as "Retro" as you can get

Cheers
Hmmm... Guess I'm not that old, I consider bikes from the 60's and 70's "retro"

The Suzuki water buffalo was water cooled and came out in 1971.

Scot Flying Squirrel was a water cooled 2 stroke from 1909.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llz6R24Y8Mg

Honda Goldwing from 1974 was watercooled.

All true, but I don't think anyone can argue with the fact that the vast majority of production bikes were all air cooled in the 70's. It's just my opinion that was Honda's intent when they came out with the CB 1100.

I didn't write that.

Cheers

[flynrider]

Thinking back about the early days of Japanese bikes, over heating wasn't really a problem until they started making bikes over 1000 cc's. I believe that is when we started getting water cooled motorcycles. I remember the first bike that really gave me problems with over heating, that was my XS1100 Yamaha. It was air cooled and did not have a oil cooler. So I would assume the oil cooler is a necessity on the CB1100 for reliability. Nothing worse than having your bike shut off in traffic from over heating. It happened to me quite a few times on that XS1100. I think it would be a big mistake removing the oil cooler on the CB1100.

I had a '79 XS1100 right before buying my CB. That is the bike that really sold me on a big bore four. My XS had come indirectly to me from the original owner (long story) and he fitted the bike with an oil cooler. It wasn't until months after owning the XS that I realized it wasn't stock. I had been under the impression that the bike had come from the factory that way. Turns out, it was a genuine Yamaha add-on. Seems those big XS's had some over heating problems.

That was a fairly common mod for liter sized air cooled bikes (particularly out here in the desert). It's pretty typical to see aftermarket coolers on the old Suzuki GS and Kaw KZ liter bikes as well. I remember when the '83 CB1100F came stock with an oil cooler, people were talking about how they'd finally got it right

[WhiskeyUSMC1979_imp]

I wouldn't buy a used CB unless the stock oil cooler was in place.

Why not put a cover (protector) on it ? http://www.samurider.com/?p=13491

It would look like a small water cooled radiator.

Because that only draws even more attention to something that is already considered an eyesore by the very premise of this thread?

Just thinking out loud.

It's kinda like the thread where someone asked if anyone had moved the horns to a more subtle location, and someone suggested chrome trim rings instead. The OP is talking about removing the oil cooler or possibly swapping in a smaller cooler in a different location. Not adding more "bling" to it and squaring it off even further, thus making it even more aesthetically awkward.

I'm still leaning towards the curved one, personally, but that sportster cooler could be a viable option for some one else looking to minimize the look. I would look for an aftermarket equivalent through. Surely if it is a "Genuine Harley" part than the price will have at least doubled. Hahaha

Don't take my opinions too seriously though. After all, I don't think top cases, highway pegs, or full fairings belong anywhere near this bike. I'd rather see it more stripped down and streamlined. To each their own.

Until next time radio-land listeners, REMEMBER:

Rubber side down, and ENJOY THE RIDE!!!!


Sent from an undisclosed location

[tomas_imp]

I think its a poor design. They should have at least let you drain the cooler with a primer to refill. Leaving a full quart (20%) of dirty oil in the system just does not make sense. Remember this oil runs through the tranny collecting a lot of metal and brakes down much quicker. They would have been much better served to make a water cooled radiator the same size if there going to put it there at all, this would have allowed fresh oil changes.

So not only is it big & ugly, you can't even drain it properly.
The only option for me, is to replace the oil cooler with one about half the size. I don't think this option would hurt reliability issues. So if the Aftermarket comes out with one for the CB, or a existing one used on another model might work also for me...........

search for a sportster oil filter





smaller, but not sure about attachment to the cb1100.

search for a sportster oil filter





smaller, but not sure about attachment to the cb1100.
Very nice DJS, now that's what I'm talking about. Prefect size for a oil cooler.......

I wouldn't buy a used CB unless the stock oil cooler was in place.

Why not put a cover (protector) on it ? http://www.samurider.com/?p=13491

It would look like a small water cooled radiator.

Thanks curlyjoe, but I don't want the look of a radiator at all. Cause with a radiator on the bike then the cooling fins will look fake and are there for show only.

[BestStandard_imp]

I'm not debating the merits of the oil cooler. I get it. I'm simply asking if anyone has removed theirs.

Bikes in the 60's and 70's didn't come with them, didn't need them, and worked just fine without them. I know the CB1100 operates under completely different conditions and runs a lot hotter and leaner due to emissions tuning, but my question remains. It appears the consensus will be a resounding "No!"

I don't chime in very often, especially about technical stuff... but some of the misconceptions about the need for the oil cooler concerns me and I don't want anyone to damage their engine for the sake of vanity. I grew up with Honda, buying my first new one in 1970. I may be going out on a limb here, but to my recollection all Honda DOHC air cooled 4's had an oil cooler in the proper location in the cool air stream ahead of the hot engine. This includes all 650, 750, 900, etc... even the CBX. So why didn't the large SOHC air cooled engines in the 60's and 70's come with them or need them? Because the 750 engine had a dry sump oil system with remote oil tank that cooled the oil even more efficiently than a cooler!! So in reality, all Honda air cooled 4's 650 and above have been oil cooled. The CB1100 oil cooler dicipates a lot more heat than you think for its small size, and the engineers determined its proper size with extensive calculations and testing. I've admired Honda's precision engineering since I was a kid, it's what inspired me to become a mechanical engineer!!

[Pterodactyl_imp]

Good post, Best Standard (strewth, I nearly used the initials until I saw how that would look ). I have never considered the oil tank on my '61 Bonnie to be an oil cooler but you're right, it is. Case of not seeing the forest for the trees, I guess. However, the CB is a much more refined beast than the old air (and oil) cooled vertical twin. I think the only way to tackle the possibility of removing the oil cooler from the air stream, or reducing the size of the cooler, would require a lot of precise temperature readings at critical points on and in the engine over a broad range of operating and ambient conditions, and then gradually reducing the efficiency of the oil cooler while continuing to monitor those temperatures. If, for instance, you removed the cooler completely from the loop (easy) and there was no significant temperature variation from 100% efficiency then no problem, ditch the cooler. But, as the OP "imagined", this would be extremely unlikely. Perhaps Tomas has done some work in this area. I'd like to see it.

Cheers

[Cormanus]

Having had a go at Tomas, I should be fair. I think his gripe is that he finds the oil cooler ugly not that it believes it unnecessary.

[Pterodactyl_imp]

^^^^^^^

I think "attacked" is a bit strong. To me, removing the oil cooler, without making some other measures to control engine temp, is not a great idea. Just an opinion.

Cheers

So you're assuming that no thought was put into removing the oil cooler, or the consequences of removing it. What I was looking for, was dialog and the feasibility of taking on such a project.

Cheers.............

You may be right. I must re-read this.

Cheers

[curlyjoe_imp]

The "13 service manual has an oil flow diagram on page 4-2. It looks as though there is a 2 chambered oil pump where one chamber pumps through the oil filter and into the lower engine (cylinders and below). The other chamber pumps oil into the cooler and from the cooler, into cylinder head channels around the spark plugs. From the cylinder head it flows through a channel with the EOT (engine oil temperature) sensor and then back into the sump. This design is consistent with the Honda engineers worry about high temperatures surrounding the spark plugs.

There is a high temp "idiot" light that comes on when the oil temp is too high. I wonder if our friends in Arizona or OZ have ever seen this come on when riding in stop and go traffic on very hot summer days?

You could try removing the cooler (I'm not recommending this) and then monitor the high temp light to come on under a variety of riding conditions like Pterodactyl suggested. A temp gauge would be more useful. Does anyone know of a gauge that can be wired into the EOT sensor?

Personally I don't have a problem with the looks of the cooler but as others have mentioned there are alternatives out there.

Earl's has a nice line of coolers that are designed to fit between the forks (2 different widths, curved vs straight, and variations in the number of "rows"). Mounting the coolers between the forks would involve moving the horns and also there would be a potential problem with the brake lines being just behind the cooler.

Japan webike sells [url=http://japan.webike.net/products/21220082.html]Earls oil cooling kits designed for the CB750, CB900 and CB1000F. They are pricey though and you may be better off ordering the parts directly from Earls [url=http://www.earls.co.uk/earls100/earls_shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=14_38&zenid=32051fs1tutjtkm9711rapdke0](link).

Earls "curved coolers"



Another protector for the stock cooler that may be more visually pleasing.