Rotella T5 10w30 + CB1100 = HAPPY!!!

[GoldOxide_imp]

Heard some rumors that next Shella Rotella 1 gal container comes with a 0.0001 gallon lab grade syringe for final engine oil level adjustment to keep everyone happy

Across motorcycle forums worldwide, I don't think such a syringe device is restricted to Rotella. Some owners just cannot get beyond oil level obsession. Maybe it is because it emblematic of the few things one can still control in life.

[Ollie]

I wasn't impressed with the Honda GN4 10w40 that the dealership installed when i bought the bike with 8900 miles on it. It came out looking like coffee after only 3k miles. So I started looking for alternatives.

I know a lot of folks here like the Rotella T6 5w40 but I saw some used oil analysis at BITOG that showed it sheared easily and might not be the best choice for an oil cooled bike that is hard on oil like the CB1100.

I had used T4 15w40 in my Shadow 750s and my old Nighthawk 750, and the dealership assured me 15w40 wouldn't hurt the CB1100, so I decided to try the T6 15w40 as that seems to resist shearing better and is also MA2 rated (rated, not certified...)

The T6 15w40 held up much better than the Honda GN4 10w40, but it was causing ticking from the top of the engine. 15w40 grade is too stout and simply isnt a good match with the CB1100.

A few people on BITOG recommended the T5 10w30, but I was hesitant since it's not MA or MA2 rated. Decided to give it a try since the oil analysis looked very much like a motorcycle oil, and there were several people there using in bikes similar to the CB1100 such as rhe ZRX1200.

I'm not knocking anyone's choice of oil here, I just want to report that my Eleven is doing great on the T5 10w30, very smooth and quiet, and no shifting issues at all.

According to reports on BITOG forum, the T5 10w30 resists shearing very well, and the ZRX rider reported the T5 was still in grade after 5000 miles. I fully expect it will perform similarly in the CB1100.

Rotella T5 10w30 is a better motorcycle oil than many other oils that are MA certified. You can use Rotella T5 in your CB1100 with confidence.

I've attached a Virgin Oil Analysis of the T5 that I found at BITOG.

Ps. My CB1100 takes between 3.8 and 3.9 quarts to fill including a filter change. There appears to be some confusion over this in some of the manuals and online. At least on my bike, the 2014 Standard, aka "The Black One", a full 4 quarts overfills it and completely blots out the sight glass.

I am confused. The Rotella 10W 30 is indicated for diesel engines. Is there a version just for motorcycles? If not, why would an oil made for diesel engines work on a motorcycle engine and gears? I recently experienced some oil residue on the metal part of the oil cooler lines and am wondering if using Honda GN 10W 40 would be the cause of that. I will switch right away if that was the cause.

4.2q is fill from dead empty never run. just fyi.

they are made in multiple locations but run whatever you wish, they will all work well. in todays world, anything is better oil and filter wise than it was 20-30-50 years ago.

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...
I agree with you. I just did an oil change on my 2014 with the filter and started with 3.5. I ended up at just around 3.85 qts and the sight glass was perfect to the top edge where I could still see a little light. I ran the engine for 10 minutes and let it sit as prescribed. It’s always better to have a little less than more oil as well. Too much oil raises pressures and can cause gasket or seal failure. That is rare unless you are putting 5 quarts in though.

Look at the additive packages. Look at the flash points, TBN, and viscosities. The demands of diesel engines are very similar to the demands of shared sump aka wet clutch motorcycle engines.

The big no-nos for wet clutch usage are molybdenum and "Energy Conserving" being listed in the spec donut on the jug.

In my opinion, JASO MA and JASO MA2 started out with good intentions but today they are more marketing than an actual performance spec.

That's underscored by the fact that Honda GN4 oil isn't actually certified by JASO MA, they just claim that it will meet JASO MA specs.

Following info taken from https://www.rymax-lubricants.com/updates...tion-mean/


In 2006, MA1 and MA2 were added as extra categories within the JASO MA specification. The main difference between these two categories is the higher friction performance MA2 oils are delivering. This meant that from 2006 on, motor oils that meet the T903:2006 standard can be divided into four specifications for 4-stroke motorcycle oils:

JASO MA: This is the standard specification for oils that are used within one oil system (where the engine, gearbox and clutch use the same oil). These oils don’t contain any friction modifiers.
JASO MA1: This is a lower standard specification for motorcycles that require different oils for the engine, gearbox and clutch.
JASO MA2: This is a higher standard specification for modern motorcycles. These oils are suitable for use in motorcycles that have catalytic converters in the exhaust system.
JASO MB: This is a lower standard specification for scooter engines.

For an oil to meet ANY of the above mentioned JASO specifications, it has to meet at least ONE of the following quality levels:

API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3
ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2, C3

Note that the JASO spec isn't particularly rigorous... If an oil can meet even ONE of the listed API specs, ILSAC, or ACEA specs, it can be considered as JASO MA oil...

People were using diesel oil in motorcycles for decades before they decided to start putting pics of motorcycles on the bottle and raising the price.

I wasn't impressed with the Honda GN4 10w40 that the dealership installed when i bought the bike with 8900 miles on it. It came out looking like coffee after only 3k miles. So I started looking for alternatives.

I know a lot of folks here like the Rotella T6 5w40 but I saw some used oil analysis at BITOG that showed it sheared easily and might not be the best choice for an oil cooled bike that is hard on oil like the CB1100.

I had used T4 15w40 in my Shadow 750s and my old Nighthawk 750, and the dealership assured me 15w40 wouldn't hurt the CB1100, so I decided to try the T6 15w40 as that seems to resist shearing better and is also MA2 rated (rated, not certified...)

The T6 15w40 held up much better than the Honda GN4 10w40, but it was causing ticking from the top of the engine. 15w40 grade is too stout and simply isnt a good match with the CB1100.

A few people on BITOG recommended the T5 10w30, but I was hesitant since it's not MA or MA2 rated. Decided to give it a try since the oil analysis looked very much like a motorcycle oil, and there were several people there using in bikes similar to the CB1100 such as rhe ZRX1200.

I'm not knocking anyone's choice of oil here, I just want to report that my Eleven is doing great on the T5 10w30, very smooth and quiet, and no shifting issues at all.

According to reports on BITOG forum, the T5 10w30 resists shearing very well, and the ZRX rider reported the T5 was still in grade after 5000 miles. I fully expect it will perform similarly in the CB1100.

Rotella T5 10w30 is a better motorcycle oil than many other oils that are MA certified. You can use Rotella T5 in your CB1100 with confidence.

I've attached a Virgin Oil Analysis of the T5 that I found at BITOG.

Ps. My CB1100 takes between 3.8 and 3.9 quarts to fill including a filter change. There appears to be some confusion over this in some of the manuals and online. At least on my bike, the 2014 Standard, aka "The Black One", a full 4 quarts overfills it and completely blots out the sight glass.

I am confused. The Rotella 10W 30 is indicated for diesel engines. Is there a version just for motorcycles? If not, why would an oil made for diesel engines work on a motorcycle engine and gears? I recently experienced some oil residue on the metal part of the oil cooler lines and am wondering if using Honda GN 10W 40 would be the cause of that. I will switch right away if that was the cause.

4.2q is fill from dead empty never run. just fyi.

they are made in multiple locations but run whatever you wish, they will all work well. in todays world, anything is better oil and filter wise than it was 20-30-50 years ago.

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...
I agree with you. I just did an oil change on my 2014 with the filter and started with 3.5. I ended up at just around 3.85 qts and the sight glass was perfect to the top edge where I could still see a little light. I ran the engine for 10 minutes and let it sit as prescribed. It’s always better to have a little less than more oil as well. Too much oil raises pressures and can cause gasket or seal failure. That is rare unless you are putting 5 quarts in though.

Doubtful but not impossible.

Honda doesn't make motor oil. They send out bids to various manufacturers, and typically will go with the cheapest bid that meets their defined spec. Most motorcycle companies do the same thing.

That said, over on the oil forum (BITOG), Honda oil and filters are generally considered "good enough" but not worth the premium prices they charge...

Motul, Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, Shell, Warren, etc., all make high quality motor oils that are less expensive than Honda branded oil.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Motorcyclists love to make simple things complicated.

Put in 3.8, put in 3.85, put in 3.9, put in 4.0, put in 4.1 your motor doesn't really care.

and another thing, you don't have to run exactly 36 pounds in the front and 42 pound in the rear on your tires either..a couple of pounds either way will be just fine

Air is free. Oil comes in gallon jugs that cost money.

The 2014 manual says you need MORE than a gallon with filter change. This is incorrect.

The 2014 models take LESS than one gallon with a filter change.

I would have appreciated if one of the resident CB1100 experts had told me this in advance. It would have saved me oil, time, and money.

If someone intentionally wants to overfill their bike and waste money and oil... Sure, then it doesn't matter.

I don't know anyone who would do that intentionally. Do you?

Okay, maybe a few Honda dealerships! LOL

My intention is simply to help others save time, oil, and money.

Capacity is listed as 4.1 qt, surely you didn't buy a 5th quart did you? Remember the oil level doesn't need to be "at the max line", only between the add and max lines.

Just so you know, when changing oil on any motor put in a little less, then check. I've never known of one that needed the listed amount to bring up to the max level. If you do put in what's spec'd which'll invariably put it a bit over the max level, it likely won't hurt, but in some cases over time it could. Harley Twin Cam comes to mind, it called for 4 quarts with filter but you never put that much in, only 3.5 which puts it at almost max level. If you put 4 in it'll be a little over max and about 1/2 quart will end up in the airbox and contribute to carbon build up in the engine.

[the Ferret]

Heard some rumors that next Shella Rotella 1 gal container comes with a 0.0001 gallon lab grade syringe for final engine oil level adjustment to keep everyone happy

Across motorcycle forums worldwide, I don't think such a syringe device is restricted to Rotella. Some owners just cannot get beyond oil level obsession. Maybe it is because it emblematic of the few things one can still control in life.

Truth

but it goes beyond that... viscosity, dino or synthetic, frequency of replacement, motorcycle oil, car oil, diesel oil,

... every back yard "expert" thinks they know better than the engineers that designed and spec'd them ..

Old wives tales passed from one generation to the next generation, from father to son, from uncle to nephew, from neighbor to curious kid down the street

[Tev62]

But do you chill/warm your oil to a standardised temperature to cater for oil changes in all seasons, thus preventing volumetric errors?

[GoldOxide_imp]

CB1100 all season usage with same sump 10W40 oil: -25C to +45C air ambient temperature.

If I see oil in the sight glass, I was good to go and the CB1100 did not disappoint. Not once did I top it up.

[Ollie]

Yes thankfully these bikes don't seem to consume much oil, at least most I hear about don't. My previous air-cooled 4 cylinder was a 2000 CB750 Nighthawk and I needed to keep an eye on its level because by 2,500 miles it was down to the add line. LOL not as bad as my KLR 650, I packed oil anytime I took that bike on a multi day ride!

[Yata-Garasu_imp]

I found a virgin oil analysis of Honda Gn4 10w30, comparing it to Mobil 1 5w30 and SuperTech 10w30.

I find it interesting because based on the molybdenum, zinc, and calcium, the T5 10w30 seems to be a better quality oil motorcycle oil than the Honda Gn4, despite not having any claims to meeting the JASON MA spec.

Zinc, calcium, phosphorus = good. Moly = Bad.

The Mobil 1 5w30 and SuperTech 10w30 are both automotive oils, which explains the high quantity of molybdenum, but I was surprised that the GN4 had pretty high moly content as well.

[Yata-Garasu_imp]

.. ok. and? not everything needs more of this or that. Im pretty sure honda knew what they were doing. But as long as you like it, have at it.

I'm absolutely sure Honda knows what they're doing... There's no crime in a fat profit margin.

Myself, I think my money looks better in my wallet.

I find the add pack analysis interesting. If that sort of thing doesn't interest you, feel free to post somewhere else.

[Lord Popgun]

Yata,

I’m not an oil expert at all. Why is Moly bad?

[Yata-Garasu_imp]

Yata,

I’m not an oil expert at all. Why is Moly bad?

It's too slippery. It's one of the main "Energy Conserving" additives that will mess with a wet clutch. But it can still be okay in moderation. Some people use the above Mobil 1 5w30 automotive oil in their wet clutch and have no problems.

Id be willing to bet that the moly in the GN4 is a residual trace from a previous batch, and not actually in there by design. Honda doesn't make oil products, they subcontract the work out, to the lowest bidder whose oil meets their specs.