Rotella T5 10w30 + CB1100 = HAPPY!!!

[Yata-Garasu_imp]

pretty sure there is zero capacity differences . same cases, why would there be differences?

Different observations suggests differences.

I'm willing to accept DeSwami's observation that 4.1 is correct for his 2013. 4.1 is not correct for my 2014, and for several others here.

Why would Honda do this? Dang'd if I know!

[Yata-Garasu_imp]

thats just speculation.

2014-2017 share the same crankcases:
11000-MGC-A40 CRANKCASE SET

no way did they change the crankcase capacity, makes no sense. different color will give a different part number but otherwise, no mechanical changes. I -could- be wrong but the part numbers tell me I'm not.

Ok. So what's your explanation? Im not the only one who's observations don't agree with the manual.

It occurred to me that it's possible the oil cooler may not be completely draining, possibly due to using 10w40 instead of 10w30... But last time I let it drain for a couple hours with the filter off, to try and get it as empty as possible...

The idea that it's not draining completely due to the oil cooler would be speculation too.

I've only done 3 oil changes on my Eleven, but I'd like to know why my bike has never needed more than 3.9 quarts, even with a filter change.

Maybe now that Im actually running 10w30 per the owners manual that last 0.3 quarts will finally drain out of the oil cooler and I'll need 4.1 quarts the next time?!

More speculation...

Im not proposing a conspiracy or a cover up. But there's definitely something causing the difference in oil capacity measurements. Id like to figure it out.

With my VT750 Shadows, the oil capacity in the manual is exactly the same as the actual capacity in the bikes.

Ps. T5 10W30 is still working great! Lol

[Yata-Garasu_imp]

Ok, I'll shake the bike more vigorously next year.

But in the meanwhile, I strongly recommend NOT buying 4.1 quarts for your oil changes on this bike.

I was looking for 2014 manuals online and found a Spanish language version. In the section on oil changes, it didnt even have a capacity listed. It just said "fill to the upper line of the sight glass."

[DaSwami_imp]

pretty sure there is zero capacity differences . same cases, why would there be differences?

5 speed gearbox vs 6 speed gearbox? The extra gear has to go somewhere...

[Yata-Garasu_imp]

how big do you think the gears are? remember, the shaft is still there, so maybe what, 2-4 oz max maybe? and they usually arent submerged completely, so cut that displacement in half.

It seems to me you're missing the forest for the trees here.

The main point of this thread is to let people know that T5 10w30 Rotella works well for the CB1100, despite the lack of JASO MA letters on the jug.

Secondarily, I wanted to let people know that, at least in the case of the 2014, there is no reason to buy more than one gallon to prep for an oil change.

I live in an apartment and have no place to store leftovers.

Apparently there is some discrepancy between model years. The oil capacities listed in the 2014 English language manual do not correspond with actual observations.

We can speculate as to why this might be, but it has been observed by more people than myself. DeSwami's speculation that the transmission diifferences could account for the oil capacity differences makes sense to me.

But the proof is in the pudding. I'm not trying to "prove" anything, I'm simply saying that in 3 consecutive oil and filter change intervals, my 2014 has never needed more than 4 US quarts.

I am sharing this here so that others can avoid the hiccups I encountered.

I can only speak for my experience with my 2014, but if you buy one gallon of oil and a decent filter, that should be more than you need.

And the T5 10w30 Rotella conveniently comes in one gallon jugs... Currently priced at $21 at my local Walmart.

[bvictory_imp]

I wasn't impressed with the Honda GN4 10w40 that the dealership installed when i bought the bike with 8900 miles on it. It came out looking like coffee after only 3k miles. So I started looking for alternatives.

I know a lot of folks here like the Rotella T6 5w40 but I saw some used oil analysis at BITOG that showed it sheared easily and might not be the best choice for an oil cooled bike that is hard on oil like the CB1100.

I had used T4 15w40 in my Shadow 750s and my old Nighthawk 750, and the dealership assured me 15w40 wouldn't hurt the CB1100, so I decided to try the T6 15w40 as that seems to resist shearing better and is also MA2 rated (rated, not certified...)

The T6 15w40 held up much better than the Honda GN4 10w40, but it was causing ticking from the top of the engine. 15w40 grade is too stout and simply isnt a good match with the CB1100.

A few people on BITOG recommended the T5 10w30, but I was hesitant since it's not MA or MA2 rated. Decided to give it a try since the oil analysis looked very much like a motorcycle oil, and there were several people there using in bikes similar to the CB1100 such as rhe ZRX1200.

I'm not knocking anyone's choice of oil here, I just want to report that my Eleven is doing great on the T5 10w30, very smooth and quiet, and no shifting issues at all.

According to reports on BITOG forum, the T5 10w30 resists shearing very well, and the ZRX rider reported the T5 was still in grade after 5000 miles. I fully expect it will perform similarly in the CB1100.

Rotella T5 10w30 is a better motorcycle oil than many other oils that are MA certified. You can use Rotella T5 in your CB1100 with confidence.

I've attached a Virgin Oil Analysis of the T5 that I found at BITOG.

Ps. My CB1100 takes between 3.8 and 3.9 quarts to fill including a filter change. There appears to be some confusion over this in some of the manuals and online. At least on my bike, the 2014 Standard, aka "The Black One", a full 4 quarts overfills it and completely blots out the sight glass.

I am confused. The Rotella 10W 30 is indicated for diesel engines. Is there a version just for motorcycles? If not, why would an oil made for diesel engines work on a motorcycle engine and gears? I recently experienced some oil residue on the metal part of the oil cooler lines and am wondering if using Honda GN 10W 40 would be the cause of that. I will switch right away if that was the cause.

4.2q is fill from dead empty never run. just fyi.

they are made in multiple locations but run whatever you wish, they will all work well. in todays world, anything is better oil and filter wise than it was 20-30-50 years ago.

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...
I agree with you. I just did an oil change on my 2014 with the filter and started with 3.5. I ended up at just around 3.85 qts and the sight glass was perfect to the top edge where I could still see a little light. I ran the engine for 10 minutes and let it sit as prescribed. It’s always better to have a little less than more oil as well. Too much oil raises pressures and can cause gasket or seal failure. That is rare unless you are putting 5 quarts in though.

[the Ferret]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Motorcyclists love to make simple things complicated.

Put in 3.8, put in 3.85, put in 3.9, put in 4.0, put in 4.1 your motor doesn't really care.

and another thing, you don't have to run exactly 36 pounds in the front and 42 pound in the rear on your tires either..a couple of pounds either way will be just fine

[Yata-Garasu_imp]

I wasn't impressed with the Honda GN4 10w40 that the dealership installed when i bought the bike with 8900 miles on it. It came out looking like coffee after only 3k miles. So I started looking for alternatives.

I know a lot of folks here like the Rotella T6 5w40 but I saw some used oil analysis at BITOG that showed it sheared easily and might not be the best choice for an oil cooled bike that is hard on oil like the CB1100.

I had used T4 15w40 in my Shadow 750s and my old Nighthawk 750, and the dealership assured me 15w40 wouldn't hurt the CB1100, so I decided to try the T6 15w40 as that seems to resist shearing better and is also MA2 rated (rated, not certified...)

The T6 15w40 held up much better than the Honda GN4 10w40, but it was causing ticking from the top of the engine. 15w40 grade is too stout and simply isnt a good match with the CB1100.

A few people on BITOG recommended the T5 10w30, but I was hesitant since it's not MA or MA2 rated. Decided to give it a try since the oil analysis looked very much like a motorcycle oil, and there were several people there using in bikes similar to the CB1100 such as rhe ZRX1200.

I'm not knocking anyone's choice of oil here, I just want to report that my Eleven is doing great on the T5 10w30, very smooth and quiet, and no shifting issues at all.

According to reports on BITOG forum, the T5 10w30 resists shearing very well, and the ZRX rider reported the T5 was still in grade after 5000 miles. I fully expect it will perform similarly in the CB1100.

Rotella T5 10w30 is a better motorcycle oil than many other oils that are MA certified. You can use Rotella T5 in your CB1100 with confidence.

I've attached a Virgin Oil Analysis of the T5 that I found at BITOG.

Ps. My CB1100 takes between 3.8 and 3.9 quarts to fill including a filter change. There appears to be some confusion over this in some of the manuals and online. At least on my bike, the 2014 Standard, aka "The Black One", a full 4 quarts overfills it and completely blots out the sight glass.

I am confused. The Rotella 10W 30 is indicated for diesel engines. Is there a version just for motorcycles? If not, why would an oil made for diesel engines work on a motorcycle engine and gears? I recently experienced some oil residue on the metal part of the oil cooler lines and am wondering if using Honda GN 10W 40 would be the cause of that. I will switch right away if that was the cause.

4.2q is fill from dead empty never run. just fyi.

they are made in multiple locations but run whatever you wish, they will all work well. in todays world, anything is better oil and filter wise than it was 20-30-50 years ago.

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...
I agree with you. I just did an oil change on my 2014 with the filter and started with 3.5. I ended up at just around 3.85 qts and the sight glass was perfect to the top edge where I could still see a little light. I ran the engine for 10 minutes and let it sit as prescribed. It’s always better to have a little less than more oil as well. Too much oil raises pressures and can cause gasket or seal failure. That is rare unless you are putting 5 quarts in though.

Look at the additive packages. Look at the flash points, TBN, and viscosities. The demands of diesel engines are very similar to the demands of shared sump aka wet clutch motorcycle engines.

The big no-nos for wet clutch usage are molybdenum and "Energy Conserving" being listed in the spec donut on the jug.

In my opinion, JASO MA and JASO MA2 started out with good intentions but today they are more marketing than an actual performance spec.

That's underscored by the fact that Honda GN4 oil isn't actually certified by JASO MA, they just claim that it will meet JASO MA specs.

Following info taken from https://www.rymax-lubricants.com/updates...tion-mean/


In 2006, MA1 and MA2 were added as extra categories within the JASO MA specification. The main difference between these two categories is the higher friction performance MA2 oils are delivering. This meant that from 2006 on, motor oils that meet the T903:2006 standard can be divided into four specifications for 4-stroke motorcycle oils:

JASO MA: This is the standard specification for oils that are used within one oil system (where the engine, gearbox and clutch use the same oil). These oils don’t contain any friction modifiers.
JASO MA1: This is a lower standard specification for motorcycles that require different oils for the engine, gearbox and clutch.
JASO MA2: This is a higher standard specification for modern motorcycles. These oils are suitable for use in motorcycles that have catalytic converters in the exhaust system.
JASO MB: This is a lower standard specification for scooter engines.

For an oil to meet ANY of the above mentioned JASO specifications, it has to meet at least ONE of the following quality levels:

API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3
ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2, C3

Note that the JASO spec isn't particularly rigorous... If an oil can meet even ONE of the listed API specs, ILSAC, or ACEA specs, it can be considered as JASO MA oil...

People were using diesel oil in motorcycles for decades before they decided to start putting pics of motorcycles on the bottle and raising the price.

I wasn't impressed with the Honda GN4 10w40 that the dealership installed when i bought the bike with 8900 miles on it. It came out looking like coffee after only 3k miles. So I started looking for alternatives.

I know a lot of folks here like the Rotella T6 5w40 but I saw some used oil analysis at BITOG that showed it sheared easily and might not be the best choice for an oil cooled bike that is hard on oil like the CB1100.

I had used T4 15w40 in my Shadow 750s and my old Nighthawk 750, and the dealership assured me 15w40 wouldn't hurt the CB1100, so I decided to try the T6 15w40 as that seems to resist shearing better and is also MA2 rated (rated, not certified...)

The T6 15w40 held up much better than the Honda GN4 10w40, but it was causing ticking from the top of the engine. 15w40 grade is too stout and simply isnt a good match with the CB1100.

A few people on BITOG recommended the T5 10w30, but I was hesitant since it's not MA or MA2 rated. Decided to give it a try since the oil analysis looked very much like a motorcycle oil, and there were several people there using in bikes similar to the CB1100 such as rhe ZRX1200.

I'm not knocking anyone's choice of oil here, I just want to report that my Eleven is doing great on the T5 10w30, very smooth and quiet, and no shifting issues at all.

According to reports on BITOG forum, the T5 10w30 resists shearing very well, and the ZRX rider reported the T5 was still in grade after 5000 miles. I fully expect it will perform similarly in the CB1100.

Rotella T5 10w30 is a better motorcycle oil than many other oils that are MA certified. You can use Rotella T5 in your CB1100 with confidence.

I've attached a Virgin Oil Analysis of the T5 that I found at BITOG.

Ps. My CB1100 takes between 3.8 and 3.9 quarts to fill including a filter change. There appears to be some confusion over this in some of the manuals and online. At least on my bike, the 2014 Standard, aka "The Black One", a full 4 quarts overfills it and completely blots out the sight glass.

I am confused. The Rotella 10W 30 is indicated for diesel engines. Is there a version just for motorcycles? If not, why would an oil made for diesel engines work on a motorcycle engine and gears? I recently experienced some oil residue on the metal part of the oil cooler lines and am wondering if using Honda GN 10W 40 would be the cause of that. I will switch right away if that was the cause.

4.2q is fill from dead empty never run. just fyi.

they are made in multiple locations but run whatever you wish, they will all work well. in todays world, anything is better oil and filter wise than it was 20-30-50 years ago.

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...

Nope.


So per the manual, it's 4.1 US quarts when changing the oil filter.

That's incorrect. It's less than 3.9 quarts.

There's a video on Youtube where a guy dumps 4 quarts into his Cb1100 and it completely fills the sight-glass.

There's another one where the guy puts in 3.5 quarts and then tops it up until the sight-glass is accurate.

My experience is in line with the second guy. Put in 3.5 quarts, while on the center stand, and then gradually top it up until the sight glass is where you want it.

4 quarts is too much. 4.1 quarts is way too much... lol

I am talking about the 2014 Standard, aka the "black one". I can't speak to other model or year variations.

But the manual for the 2014 is incorrect. Even the Honda shops that follow the manual are overfilling these bikes.
Ps. Im using the Fram PH6017a. Another typo... No wonder I got D's in accounting! Good lord I hated that class...
I agree with you. I just did an oil change on my 2014 with the filter and started with 3.5. I ended up at just around 3.85 qts and the sight glass was perfect to the top edge where I could still see a little light. I ran the engine for 10 minutes and let it sit as prescribed. It’s always better to have a little less than more oil as well. Too much oil raises pressures and can cause gasket or seal failure. That is rare unless you are putting 5 quarts in though.

Doubtful but not impossible.

Honda doesn't make motor oil. They send out bids to various manufacturers, and typically will go with the cheapest bid that meets their defined spec. Most motorcycle companies do the same thing.

That said, over on the oil forum (BITOG), Honda oil and filters are generally considered "good enough" but not worth the premium prices they charge...

Motul, Castrol, Valvoline, Mobil, Shell, Warren, etc., all make high quality motor oils that are less expensive than Honda branded oil.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Motorcyclists love to make simple things complicated.

Put in 3.8, put in 3.85, put in 3.9, put in 4.0, put in 4.1 your motor doesn't really care.

and another thing, you don't have to run exactly 36 pounds in the front and 42 pound in the rear on your tires either..a couple of pounds either way will be just fine

Air is free. Oil comes in gallon jugs that cost money.

The 2014 manual says you need MORE than a gallon with filter change. This is incorrect.

The 2014 models take LESS than one gallon with a filter change.

I would have appreciated if one of the resident CB1100 experts had told me this in advance. It would have saved me oil, time, and money.

If someone intentionally wants to overfill their bike and waste money and oil... Sure, then it doesn't matter.

I don't know anyone who would do that intentionally. Do you?

Okay, maybe a few Honda dealerships! LOL

My intention is simply to help others save time, oil, and money.

[GoldOxide_imp]

how big do you think the gears are? remember, the shaft is still there, so maybe what, 2-4 oz max maybe? and they usually arent submerged completely, so cut that displacement in half.

It seems to me you're missing the forest for the trees here.

The main point of this thread is to let people know that T5 10w30 Rotella works well for the CB1100, despite the lack of JASO MA letters on the jug.

Secondarily, I wanted to let people know that, at least in the case of the 2014, there is no reason to buy more than one gallon to prep for an oil change.

I live in an apartment and have no place to store leftovers.

Apparently there is some discrepancy between model years. The oil capacities listed in the 2014 English language manual do not correspond with actual observations.

We can speculate as to why this might be, but it has been observed by more people than myself. DeSwami's speculation that the transmission diifferences could account for the oil capacity differences makes sense to me.

But the proof is in the pudding. I'm not trying to "prove" anything, I'm simply saying that in 3 consecutive oil and filter change intervals, my 2014 has never needed more than 4 US quarts.

I am sharing this here so that others can avoid the hiccups I encountered.

I can only speak for my experience with my 2014, but if you buy one gallon of oil and a decent filter, that should be more than you need.

And the T5 10w30 Rotella conveniently comes in one gallon jugs... Currently priced at $21 at my local Walmart.

I want that in our local Walmarts.

[peterbaron]

Heard some rumors that next Shella Rotella 1 gal container comes with a 0.0001 gallon lab grade syringe for final engine oil level adjustment to keep everyone happy