CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[the Ferret]

I too am having problems with my bike which is a 2013 ABS model, the low-idle problem occurs whenever I'm riding for 15-20 minutes in heavy stop and go traffic. I've called Honda twice now on the issue and they don't appear aware of the problem. I had one dealer in New Jersey check the bike and they couldn't replicate the issue or find anything wrong, a second dealer I spoke with was not aware of any engine idle issues, a third dealer is looking at the bike now, I hope to hear back from them later this week and will post a follow up. Thanks.

Sandhog, print off this thread and take it to the dealer that has your bike now.

[dave]

From my experience in the automotive world, it was (and is), common for some multi-port fuel injected vehicles to be plagued with a carbon sludge deposit that forms around the throttle plate. This would cause uneven or low idle, sometimes dying, and a hesitation on acceleration in some cases.
I am pretty sure that this would usually only happen with an average higher mileage than most of us have on our bikes.
The fix was to open the throttle and clean around the bore where the throttle closes, and the back (inner) side of the throttle plate. The most sparkly clean results come from pulling the throttle body for thorough cleaning, but i had good luck with a toothbrush and some Berryman's Chemtool.
If I were plagued with this issue, I would try to access the throttle bores so I could assess the possible accumulation by opening the throttle and wiping a q-tip around the area where the throttle plate closes, if it comes out clean, that's not the problem.

Ben

Ben70 may be on to something here. 2 1/2 weeks ago while riding some open, desert (Anza Borrego) roads I opened the throttle WFO several times while doing passes on slow moving traffic (most of it Harleys). Had the wife on the back (she only weighs 125 lbs) and the trunk had some gear in it, so it was WFO for several seconds. Ever since this day I have not experienced the low RPM idle stalling or the high (1,500) RPM idle. Now I admit, I baby this bike, and it's been longer than I remember to when I had this bike wide open. My passes were done in 4th gear, and I held it wide open from about 2,500 RPM until I reached 6,000 RPM, then I shifted into 5th gear and held if wide open some more. Now I have only had my bike out three times running short errands since this ride, so I can't say that the problem has gone away for good because it comes and goes as it pleases. But maybe when holding it WFO I cleaned some gunk out of the inlets? What do you guys think? Can somebody else experiencing this problem either try the WFO trick, or follow Ben70's suggestion and report back? I think with the engine running it makes a difference. I am riding my bike tonite, and I will keep this post updated.

[Hatred66_imp]

From my experience in the automotive world, it was (and is), common for some multi-port fuel injected vehicles to be plagued with a carbon sludge deposit that forms around the throttle plate. This would cause uneven or low idle, sometimes dying, and a hesitation on acceleration in some cases.
I am pretty sure that this would usually only happen with an average higher mileage than most of us have on our bikes.
The fix was to open the throttle and clean around the bore where the throttle closes, and the back (inner) side of the throttle plate. The most sparkly clean results come from pulling the throttle body for thorough cleaning, but i had good luck with a toothbrush and some Berryman's Chemtool.
If I were plagued with this issue, I would try to access the throttle bores so I could assess the possible accumulation by opening the throttle and wiping a q-tip around the area where the throttle plate closes, if it comes out clean, that's not the problem.

Ben

Ben70 may be on to something here. 2 1/2 weeks ago while riding some open, desert (Anza Borrego) roads I opened the throttle WFO several times while doing passes on slow moving traffic (most of it Harleys). Had the wife on the back (she only weighs 125 lbs) and the trunk had some gear in it, so it was WFO for several seconds. Ever since this day I have not experienced the low RPM idle stalling or the high (1,500) RPM idle. Now I admit, I baby this bike, and it's been longer than I remember to when I had this bike wide open. My passes were done in 4th gear, and I held it wide open from about 2,500 RPM until I reached 6,000 RPM, then I shifted into 5th gear and held if wide open some more. Now I have only had my bike out three times running short errands since this ride, so I can't say that the problem has gone away for good because it comes and goes as it pleases. But maybe when holding it WFO I cleaned some gunk out of the inlets? What do you guys think? Can somebody else experiencing this problem either try the WFO trick, or follow Ben70's suggestion and report back? I think with the engine running it makes a difference. I am riding my bike tonite, and I will keep this post updated.

Ben70 may be on to something here. 2 1/2 weeks ago while riding some open, desert (Anza Borrego) roads I opened the throttle WFO several times while doing passes on slow moving traffic (most of it Harleys). Had the wife on the back (she only weighs 125 lbs) and the trunk had some gear in it, so it was WFO for several seconds. Ever since this day I have not experienced the low RPM idle stalling or the high (1,500) RPM idle. Now I admit, I baby this bike, and it's been longer than I remember to when I had this bike wide open. My passes were done in 4th gear, and I held it wide open from about 2,500 RPM until I reached 6,000 RPM, then I shifted into 5th gear and held if wide open some more. Now I have only had my bike out three times running short errands since this ride, so I can't say that the problem has gone away for good because it comes and goes as it pleases. But maybe when holding it WFO I cleaned some gunk out of the inlets? What do you guys think? Can somebody else experiencing this problem either try the WFO trick, or follow Ben70's suggestion and report back? I think with the engine running it makes a difference. I am riding my bike tonite, and I will keep this post updated.
If going full throttle fixes this bike, then we're talking about the manliest bike of all times. I'll give it a try, nothing to lose at this point

[dave]

Just did a 60 mile round trip on my bike; mostly freeway (70+mph), but a few miles of stop and go. The bike ran perfect, idling smoothly at (approx.) 1050 RPM at every stop. So I decided to give it a test and rode through the city, doing about 15 minutes of 1st and 2nd gear speeds, with a lot of stop lights. The bike ran perfectly all evening, actually it has never run better. Usually the stop and go traffic, and slow speeds, would bring out the idle problem (both the low RPM / stalling, and the high (1,500) RPM conditions, but not this time. It could be because it was cool out tonight, or it just needs more time running in these conditions to bring the problem back, so I won't say the problem is cured at this point. But, I don't think that my initial thought that the WFO ride cleaned the throttle bodies out is accurate because as I reported previously in this thread, disconnecting the EOT sensor caused the bike to run perfectly every time. So, is it possible that the computer somehow adjusted something that was connected to the WFO ride? I don't know enough about these systems, but maybe someone else on this forum has some insight? I will keep this thread updated.

[Sandhog_imp]

Sandhog, they know. Read Dave's post above: http://cb1100forum.com/forum/showthread....#pid166901

Good luck with the 3rd dealer, but I wouldn't expect much. Unless its a hard failure, we seem to be on our own in the US. Mine is OK, but I have been following this since it was first reported here and would like to see a resolution.

Thanks. Glad your bike is OK. I truly hope we don't end up on our own with the problem. My bike is still under warranty via Honda's extended warranty, I do plan to be persistent with Honda for a resolution.

I too am having problems with my bike which is a 2013 ABS model, the low-idle problem occurs whenever I'm riding for 15-20 minutes in heavy stop and go traffic. I've called Honda twice now on the issue and they don't appear aware of the problem. I had one dealer in New Jersey check the bike and they couldn't replicate the issue or find anything wrong, a second dealer I spoke with was not aware of any engine idle issues, a third dealer is looking at the bike now, I hope to hear back from them later this week and will post a follow up. Thanks.

Sandhog, print off this thread and take it to the dealer that has your bike now.

Sandhog, print off this thread and take it to the dealer that has your bike now.
Ferret, I surely will share the thread with them. Thanks.

[Riko_imp]

When you are at @500 rpm, if blip the throttle, does it actually die??

Hey Riko,

Mine has never died while I'm stopped, although sometimes I literally felt like the engine was off due to total lack of sound/vibration. Usually after some seconds in that 500 RPM quiet idling, the bike goes back to 1000 RPM where it behaves "normal". The problem is that sometimes the light goes green and you don't have that extra time. In those cases the bike doesn't take off as easily since I have to apply extra throttle to compensate the low idling. If I don't do so the bike will die (again, due to starting on 1st gear with lower RPM than normal). Annoying and weird!
With the high idling, there is no variation. If the ride starts at 1500 RPM and never goes down to 1000 RPM, it will stay like that the entire ride, regardless of full stops, highway, temperature, etc.

All this is what makes the bike unpredictable...

Hey Riko,

Mine has never died while I'm stopped, although sometimes I literally felt like the engine was off due to total lack of sound/vibration. Usually after some seconds in that 500 RPM quiet idling, the bike goes back to 1000 RPM where it behaves "normal". The problem is that sometimes the light goes green and you don't have that extra time. In those cases the bike doesn't take off as easily since I have to apply extra throttle to compensate the low idling. If I don't do so the bike will die (again, due to starting on 1st gear with lower RPM than normal). Annoying and weird!
With the high idling, there is no variation. If the ride starts at 1500 RPM and never goes down to 1000 RPM, it will stay like that the entire ride, regardless of full stops, highway, temperature, etc.

All this is what makes the bike unpredictable...
hmm, but no real engine cut off from bliping the throttle right after its at 500 rpm?

Like in my past experience:

[736cc_imp]

Running it hard WFO (wide full open) as a tuning aid is also known as "blowing out the carbon" or an "Italian tune-up"

A build-up of deposits on sensitive sensors in the throttle body in fuel injected motors is very possible from lousy fuel AND wrong octane; the CB1100 is designed to run on 87 octane, using higher octane introduces additives that cannot be burned off. This I've read on the internet but it makes sense.

Who is having the idle issue and ALSO running premium fuel AND not revving the snot out of it occasionally? And is Techron or Star-tron additives a possible fix?

[736cc_imp]

My 2013 has 20,000 miles and had the 2000+ rpm high idle problem at 19,000 miles after sitting unridden for a month. The battery was almost dead and cranked VERY SLOW and took repeated attempts to start, and that's when the high idle began. After a couple days of this problem, I charged battery and removed it overnight, tapped the brake pedal ( to discharge any electric residual from capacitors), did the computer re-set throttle roll-on 3x, started up like normal (cold idle was a normal 1500 rpm), rode it around town then did a few hi-rpm blasts. Idle speed for past 1,000 miles now at back to normal 1050 rpm. Running only 87 octane from now on. I did occasionally run premium and mid-grade in the past but no more. And my riding style is everything from short shifting cruising to WFO blasts since day 1.
Read my previous post above this one....

[Hatred66_imp]

Running it hard WFO (wide full open) as a tuning aid is also known as "blowing out the carbon" or an "Italian tune-up"

A build-up of deposits on sensitive sensors in the throttle body in fuel injected motors is very possible from lousy fuel AND wrong octane; the CB1100 is designed to run on 87 octane, using higher octane introduces additives that cannot be burned off. This I've read on the internet but it makes sense.

Who is having the idle issue and ALSO running premium fuel AND not revving the snot out of it occasionally? And is Techron or Star-tron additives a possible fix?

I do have the idle issue, I've been using 91 octane fuel from day 1 (as recommended in the manual, page 32), and hardly ever run WFO. I did the WFO today and probably filling up with 87 octane, just to see if it makes any difference.

[Lord Popgun]

Hatred, Does your manual say it is a US manual? Should say at the beginning. I ask as one of our members got a '13 manual for his '14 bike. Mistakes do happen.

I ask, as there is a 2010 Austrailian/New Zealand manual on-line. It says use 91 octane. In the US our bikes use PON (pump octane number) 86 or higher. Different countries measure octane differently, but I don't know how.

Canadian members, what does your manual say? Or are octane ratings in Canada the same as the US?