CB1100 Idle speed instability problem

[SportsterDoc]

OK, I am finally starting to read this thread.
I have only gone through the first 10 pages/100 posts.
Brief summary:
2: IACV
7: Throttle body
16: Comment that it affects mostly EX models with dual O2 sensors
17: Link to TPS adjustment thread
29: Bad (water?) gas suspected (only affect low idle, not high)
35: TPS reset
49: RPM drops after 15 minutes of riding
58: O2 sensors suspected
59: O2 sensors debated
66: Battery disconnected and reconnected
68: Battery disconnected and reconnected resulted in no change
72: O2 sensors not the issue, but adding slack to throttle play resolved issue
75: Link to added throttle cable zip ties too tight
76: Idle works its way back to normal while idling
87: Riko in Belgium told to expect IACV replacemnt to cure
90: Rico got new throttle body
92: Popgun commented that probably only needed TPS, but not available separately.

Hope to read more, tomorrow.
No conclusion, at this point, but no change to comments/suggestions/questions I have previously posted.

To tell you the truth Doc, I don’t think any real troubleshooting has been done by anyone. At least not what I would do as a technician, or you as a bike repair specialist.

I wish we could find a common cause for this. So far the fixes have been all over the place. Some had actual failures (at least one IACV) and some cured the problem without really determining the failure (think Rico and the dealer changing out the throttle body), or even a software update for one member somewhere in Europe (Honda of America says there is no update).

As member’s bikes develop the problem, they don’t want to read 56 pages of comments (don’t blame them) and thus the same info, like the EOT affects idle, come out. Yes I know, it COULD be the problem that bike.

I have not read the 56 pages, either!

My first thought is a vacuum leak, but I do not know how likely that is on the CB. That can be checked by applying an unlit propane torch at possible areas and listen for a change in idle speed. Some folks like WD-40, but it is messy and some WD-40 is reported to have a non-volatile propellant.

If the EOT is a possible suspect, then we need:

1. Resistance and/or voltage values at various temperatures from the factory service manual.

2. Forum members with the issue to:
a. provide EOT resistance values.
b. provide voltage output values, both at EOT and at the ECU. If not familiar with a multimeter, guidance can be provided.

Sometimes the process can be prolonged, as in the case of this thread on which I was only of minor help: http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showt...wer+supply ...but it was solved.

There is a 300+ post thread that was fixed by cleaning a chassis/harness ground to the trans: http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showt...oc&page=36

Has anyone reported any codes associated with this issue?...guess I need to read the entire thread!

Guidance can be provided? So you're coming over to my garage?

If folks don't want to read 58 pages, there is the spreadsheet, but I'll try here:

Summary: some members have high idle at 1500, some have low at 500, floats up to 700, some have both. A few with low idle their bikes stall, others do not. Some say problem only happens with hot bike, mine acts up cold, hot, short rides, long rides...or it doesn't happen. Has not gone away for longer than 2 rides since July, '17.

What members have done:
1. throttle assembly replacement, under warranty (more than $3,000 if not under warranty). Problem solved.
2. One IACV replacement worked (under warranty, would have been $1,300), one didn't--I think this one was performed by the member
3. WOT riding...worked for some, didn't for others, temporarily "worked" for others
4. battery replacement seeme to "fix" for one member; others have disconnected battery, recharging, problem returned.
5. TPS reset; worked for some, not for others.
6. Wire at TPS connector was crimped? "Fixed" and problem went away (I'm not sure of the details).
7. EOT replaced, didn't work for a couple
8. EOT unplugged, problem goes away, but then comes back.
9. sea foam added, fuel injector cleaners; some say this cured issue, for other no
10. ECU reset; worked? for others didn't
11. some just live with it

I suspect that for some who say the problem went away, that it may not have... some have reported "fixes" only to have the problem return.

My dealer: service manager said he'll do the analysis if I want at $110 per hour; he said up front that if there's no check engine light coming on and if they can't replicate the idle problem, that it would be very difficult to pinpoint, that such work could entail several hours of work that may produce a result, or it may not. Recommended I send my summary letter I left with them to Honda, which I have done. Needless to say, I wasn't inspired and can't see myself going down that path.

I suck at electrical troubleshooting and most of what I read regarding ECU/TPS/EOT/IACV/WOT/TPS/OHM/ACDC/U2/MTV/ROTFL looks like alphabet soup to me.

Be sure to call before coming over as I may be out riding my bike!

LOL
Guidance = where to probe

To tell you the truth Doc, I don’t think any real troubleshooting has been done by anyone. At least not what I would do as a technician, or you as a bike repair specialist.

I wish we could find a common cause for this. So far the fixes have been all over the place. Some had actual failures (at least one IACV) and some cured the problem without really determining the failure (think Rico and the dealer changing out the throttle body), or even a software update for one member somewhere in Europe (Honda of America says there is no update).

As member’s bikes develop the problem, they don’t want to read 56 pages of comments (don’t blame them) and thus the same info, like the EOT affects idle, come out. Yes I know, it COULD be the problem that bike.

I have not read the 56 pages, either!

My first thought is a vacuum leak, but I do not know how likely that is on the CB. That can be checked by applying an unlit propane torch at possible areas and listen for a change in idle speed. Some folks like WD-40, but it is messy and some WD-40 is reported to have a non-volatile propellant.

If the EOT is a possible suspect, then we need:

1. Resistance and/or voltage values at various temperatures from the factory service manual.

2. Forum members with the issue to:
a. provide EOT resistance values.
b. provide voltage output values, both at EOT and at the ECU. If not familiar with a multimeter, guidance can be provided.

Sometimes the process can be prolonged, as in the case of this thread on which I was only of minor help: [url=http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=2042781&highlight=power+supply]http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=2042781&highlight=power+supply ...but it was solved.

There is a 300+ post thread that was fixed by cleaning a chassis/harness ground to the trans: [url=http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=1891463&highlight=sportsterdoc&page=36]http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showt...oc&page=36

Has anyone reported any codes associated with this issue?...guess I need to read the entire thread!

Guidance can be provided? So you're coming over to my garage?

If folks don't want to read 58 pages, there is the spreadsheet, but I'll try here:

Summary: some members have high idle at 1500, some have low at 500, floats up to 700, some have both. A few with low idle their bikes stall, others do not. Some say problem only happens with hot bike, mine acts up cold, hot, short rides, long rides...or it doesn't happen. Has not gone away for longer than 2 rides since July, '17.

What members have done:
1. throttle assembly replacement, under warranty (more than $3,000 if not under warranty). Problem solved.
2. One IACV replacement worked (under warranty, would have been $1,300), one didn't--I think this one was performed by the member
3. WOT riding...worked for some, didn't for others, temporarily "worked" for others
4. battery replacement seeme to "fix" for one member; others have disconnected battery, recharging, problem returned.
5. TPS reset; worked for some, not for others.
6. Wire at TPS connector was crimped? "Fixed" and problem went away (I'm not sure of the details).
7. EOT replaced, didn't work for a couple
8. EOT unplugged, problem goes away, but then comes back.
9. sea foam added, fuel injector cleaners; some say this cured issue, for other no
10. ECU reset; worked? for others didn't
11. some just live with it

I suspect that for some who say the problem went away, that it may not have... some have reported "fixes" only to have the problem return.

My dealer: service manager said he'll do the analysis if I want at $110 per hour; he said up front that if there's no check engine light coming on and if they can't replicate the idle problem, that it would be very difficult to pinpoint, that such work could entail several hours of work that may produce a result, or it may not. Recommended I send my summary letter I left with them to Honda, which I have done. Needless to say, I wasn't inspired and can't see myself going down that path.

I suck at electrical troubleshooting and most of what I read regarding ECU/TPS/EOT/IACV/WOT/TPS/OHM/ACDC/U2/MTV/ROTFL looks like alphabet soup to me.

Be sure to call before coming over as I may be out riding my bike!

Now you tell me!
Where is "the spreadsheet"?
I'd be happy to not read another 48 pages.