08-07-2013, 08:19 AM
[quote="The ferret_imp" pid="46872" dateline="1375720140"]
[quote='AzBob' pid='10121' dateline='1375740812']
As far as I can tell, you've been riding forever, so far be it from me to say how you should ride. However (you knew that was coming), at around this time you'd have to be downshifting anyhow, so front brake application would be the norm. Unless you're coasting into the turn, in which case "you're doing it wrong."* [quote]
Yea been riding awhile, since 1965 on the street. We were taught brake rear to front ie: hit rear brake first, front brake second. I may have been doing it wrong for 46 years now. I don't always downshift for a turn, sometimes I want to be in a certain gear, but just want to be going a little slower in that gear.
Hit the front brake alone entering a turn and several things may happen, (1) front end may dive, upsetting chassis,(2) it may even cause it to slide out, causing a low side or (3) bike may stand up straight ruining your line.
For what it's worth, the You and your motorcycle riding tips from Honda that came with your motorcycle says, and I think I can quote this verbatim, .."always apply both brakes at the same time"
I know some aficionados these days say they never touch the rear brake, on a disc brake equipped bike, but that's not going to happen with me, other than setting up for a turn where I tail brake (use the rear brake only) to scrub speed, I always use both brakes when slowing down or stopping.
I don't use my motors compression to slow down considerably, that's what brakes are for...
Also front brakes only, will only provide up to 70% of your bikes ability to stop. Why would you give up nearly 1/3 of your braking power by foregoing use of the rear brake? I've never understood that philosophy.
[/quote]
Given, as you yourself state, that the front brake does most of the braking, that seems like a good way to give up precious feet in an emergency situation. But if it's muscle memory for you, stick with it. At this point, changing would probably do more harm than good.
Quote:I may have been doing it wrong for 46 years now.
Just because we used to do something a certain way for a long time a doesn't mean that way remains the most efficient. For instance, when slipper clutches came out, the need to blip the throttle on downshift disappeared. People still do it on bikes so equipped but it's totally unnecessary.
Quote:Hit the front brake alone entering a turn and several things may happen, (1) front end may dive, upsetting chassis,(2) it may even cause it to slide out, causing a low side or (3) bike may stand up straight ruining your line.
Braking of any type, including engine braking, will cause the front forks to compress due to weight transfer -- there's no getting away from it. Same with the bike standing up -- it stands up because the velocity of the wheels is lessened and therefore gyroscopic force they exert is lessened and they can't keep the bike's center line in the same plane of travel as easily. The amount to which these occur is a function of the braking force applied. Since the front brake applies much more force than the rear brake or engine braking, it appears as if the front brake cause the bike to dive more, but this is just an illusion based on the fact that the front brake is slowing the bike more.
Quote:For what it's worth, the You and your motorcycle riding tips from Honda that came with your motorcycle says, and I think I can quote this verbatim, .."always apply both brakes at the same time"
I always use both, even on my CBR where 100% of the braking force is easily applied by the front brake alone. Worst that happens is my rear wheel is in the air a bit doing nothing. I do it because I ride the two different bikes and I like my panic reactions to be the same regardless of the hardware, if possible.
Quote:I know some aficionados these days say they never touch the rear brake, on a disc brake equipped bike, but that's not going to happen with me
It depends on the bike. As I mentioned, on my CBR and probably every sport bike, the front brake can lift the rear tire off the ground. In that case, it's obviously providing 100% of the braking force. On a standard like the CB, or a cruiser, the wheelbase is longer and that's less likely to happen. I am somewhat ashamed to say that I haven't yet practiced panic stops on my CB, so I don't yet know if the front brake is powerful enough to lift the rear tire.
Quote:I don't use my motors compression to slow down considerably, that's what brakes are for...
Agree, but in local traffic, I like to be in an appropriate gear for "oh crap! here comes xyz" moments, and so engine braking happens quite a bit for me. There is a bit of controversy whether engine braking is bad for an engine or not, and as near as I can tell, there is no consensus on this issue.
When all is said and done, I think the best thing any motorcyclist can do is avail oneself of the many, very good resources available ([url=http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/1933958359/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375913814&sr=1-1&keywords=proficient+motorcycling]Proficient Motorcycling, [url=http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Basics-High-Performance-Motorcycle/dp/0965045021/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375913848&sr=1-1&keywords=a+twist+of+the+wrist+2]A Twist of the Wrist II, and [url=http://www.amazon.com/Total-Control-Performance-Street-Techniques/dp/0760314039/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375913869&sr=1-1&keywords=total+control+lee+parks]Total Control are three book titles that come immediately to mind; while the last two lean toward sport bike riders, the techniques covered apply to any and all motorcycles) and then go out and practice what the books teach. Perhaps taking one of the intermediate and/or advanced courses provided by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (or the BRC if one has not taken that, or haven't taken any course recently). This is directed more toward the general populace than the quoted author.
That's my $.02. I hope everyone enjoys their bikes as much as I do mine! :-)
[quote='AzBob' pid='10121' dateline='1375740812']
As far as I can tell, you've been riding forever, so far be it from me to say how you should ride. However (you knew that was coming), at around this time you'd have to be downshifting anyhow, so front brake application would be the norm. Unless you're coasting into the turn, in which case "you're doing it wrong."* [quote]
Yea been riding awhile, since 1965 on the street. We were taught brake rear to front ie: hit rear brake first, front brake second. I may have been doing it wrong for 46 years now. I don't always downshift for a turn, sometimes I want to be in a certain gear, but just want to be going a little slower in that gear.
Hit the front brake alone entering a turn and several things may happen, (1) front end may dive, upsetting chassis,(2) it may even cause it to slide out, causing a low side or (3) bike may stand up straight ruining your line.
For what it's worth, the You and your motorcycle riding tips from Honda that came with your motorcycle says, and I think I can quote this verbatim, .."always apply both brakes at the same time"
I know some aficionados these days say they never touch the rear brake, on a disc brake equipped bike, but that's not going to happen with me, other than setting up for a turn where I tail brake (use the rear brake only) to scrub speed, I always use both brakes when slowing down or stopping.
I don't use my motors compression to slow down considerably, that's what brakes are for...
Also front brakes only, will only provide up to 70% of your bikes ability to stop. Why would you give up nearly 1/3 of your braking power by foregoing use of the rear brake? I've never understood that philosophy.
[/quote]
Given, as you yourself state, that the front brake does most of the braking, that seems like a good way to give up precious feet in an emergency situation. But if it's muscle memory for you, stick with it. At this point, changing would probably do more harm than good.
Quote:I may have been doing it wrong for 46 years now.
Just because we used to do something a certain way for a long time a doesn't mean that way remains the most efficient. For instance, when slipper clutches came out, the need to blip the throttle on downshift disappeared. People still do it on bikes so equipped but it's totally unnecessary.
Quote:Hit the front brake alone entering a turn and several things may happen, (1) front end may dive, upsetting chassis,(2) it may even cause it to slide out, causing a low side or (3) bike may stand up straight ruining your line.
Braking of any type, including engine braking, will cause the front forks to compress due to weight transfer -- there's no getting away from it. Same with the bike standing up -- it stands up because the velocity of the wheels is lessened and therefore gyroscopic force they exert is lessened and they can't keep the bike's center line in the same plane of travel as easily. The amount to which these occur is a function of the braking force applied. Since the front brake applies much more force than the rear brake or engine braking, it appears as if the front brake cause the bike to dive more, but this is just an illusion based on the fact that the front brake is slowing the bike more.
Quote:For what it's worth, the You and your motorcycle riding tips from Honda that came with your motorcycle says, and I think I can quote this verbatim, .."always apply both brakes at the same time"
I always use both, even on my CBR where 100% of the braking force is easily applied by the front brake alone. Worst that happens is my rear wheel is in the air a bit doing nothing. I do it because I ride the two different bikes and I like my panic reactions to be the same regardless of the hardware, if possible.
Quote:I know some aficionados these days say they never touch the rear brake, on a disc brake equipped bike, but that's not going to happen with me
It depends on the bike. As I mentioned, on my CBR and probably every sport bike, the front brake can lift the rear tire off the ground. In that case, it's obviously providing 100% of the braking force. On a standard like the CB, or a cruiser, the wheelbase is longer and that's less likely to happen. I am somewhat ashamed to say that I haven't yet practiced panic stops on my CB, so I don't yet know if the front brake is powerful enough to lift the rear tire.
Quote:I don't use my motors compression to slow down considerably, that's what brakes are for...
Agree, but in local traffic, I like to be in an appropriate gear for "oh crap! here comes xyz" moments, and so engine braking happens quite a bit for me. There is a bit of controversy whether engine braking is bad for an engine or not, and as near as I can tell, there is no consensus on this issue.
When all is said and done, I think the best thing any motorcyclist can do is avail oneself of the many, very good resources available ([url=http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/1933958359/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375913814&sr=1-1&keywords=proficient+motorcycling]Proficient Motorcycling, [url=http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Wrist-Basics-High-Performance-Motorcycle/dp/0965045021/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375913848&sr=1-1&keywords=a+twist+of+the+wrist+2]A Twist of the Wrist II, and [url=http://www.amazon.com/Total-Control-Performance-Street-Techniques/dp/0760314039/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375913869&sr=1-1&keywords=total+control+lee+parks]Total Control are three book titles that come immediately to mind; while the last two lean toward sport bike riders, the techniques covered apply to any and all motorcycles) and then go out and practice what the books teach. Perhaps taking one of the intermediate and/or advanced courses provided by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (or the BRC if one has not taken that, or haven't taken any course recently). This is directed more toward the general populace than the quoted author.
That's my $.02. I hope everyone enjoys their bikes as much as I do mine! :-)