01-15-2018, 03:22 AM
Cormanus, nope, after riding Eric's bike on the freeway and faster highways, there is absolutely no way I would ever consider putting a windshield on the CB1100. I have never experienced such ideal wind-management. My ST1100 and ST1300 were nowhere near as quiet and serene around my helmet as Eric's bike, nor have any of my naked bikes been so smooth and turbulence-free. The wind-flow is flawless.
cookiemech, make no mistake, I am very much a Honda partisan. Were the CB1100 not a flagship Honda product, I would still admire it and think it beautiful, but it would not be my first choice among the modern retros. In that instance, the T120 would be my clear favorite. Because the CB1100 is a Honda, however, it holds much greater appeal to me.
I'm sure it's all of those things, but it starts off with where and how we rode vs where and how you ride. Otherwise, yes, in some regards I was just as surprised as you are.
Quote:I don't find the steering heavy at all, even at parking lot speeds. As a matter of fact I find it suprisingly light.
Compared to my bike, simply turning the wheel back and forth while idling shows how much heavier the front end is on the CB; how resistant it is to turning. Once moving, the front end on my bike almost feels like a bicycle compared to the CB's front end, the turn-in is that much lighter.
I was shocked. I've never experienced anything like that with a Honda, except on the cruisers. I was fully expecting the usual Honda trick of heavy bike/light, easy, neutral handling.
One possible explanation that occured to me is that Eric has over 6,000 miles on his tires, and, IIRC, the vast majority of those miles are commuter miles. He has likely spent most of his time on his bike on the very center of the tire, and it's probably a bit squared off by now, which would lead to heavier steering.
Because his bike was so heavy steering, and the CB1100 is almost universally described as having very light steering, this would be my best guess as to why his bike in its current state might be an anomaly.
Quote:I have no problem holding a line thru a curve, changing a line thru a curve, and can ride thru curves using only my throttle hand while shooting pictures with the other. I can pull a rolling U turn on my country lane and a half road.
I could do all those same things too on Eric's bike, albeit with much greater effort than is required to do those things on the XSR.
I found it particularly surprising because all but one review of the CB1100 I've ever read described its light, easy steering, once up to speed. They all say it's heavy and ponderous at parking lot speeds, which is to be expected of such a long, heavy, and relatively top-heavy bike, but Hondas almost always have dead-neutral handling and light steering, once rolling.
This one ride review from an absolute newbie rider is the only one I've found that described what I experienced yesterday on Eric's bike, in terms of the front end's initial resistance to turn. He mentions this, and adds that once the lean angle is set, it's fine. It's reluctant to snap back in the other direction, but that's to be expected of a long, top-heavy bike with conservative steering geometry...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVMaMXianHM
Quote:I find the bike has one of the best transmissions I have ever experienced..snick, snick, snick gear changes up or down, the only exception being the first to second or second to first shift.
It works just fine, but it's nowhere near as fast and seamless as the trannies on most modern Japanese sportbikes. Compared to the XSR's tranny, the CB's shifts were much more deliberate, accompanied by a much more pronounced 'clunk' between shifts.
The only time it ever posed an issue for me was when I wanted to slap a fast downshift on the brakes, heading into a corner. Eric was far more critical than I was of his tranny. Whereas he described it as a Russian tractor, I would compare it the Moto Guzzi V7. It's smoother than the Guzzi tranny, but similar.
It's nothing like a GSX-R or CBR tranny. It's intentionally old school.
Quote:drive line lash is not an issue if you are smooth rolling the throttle on and off rather than chopping the throttle on and off.
No doubt. Most of the time, the drive lash was a nonissue. I was able to coax it into clunking, but I had to try to do it. Chop the throttle and get back on it quickly, and it clunks a lot more than the XSR. Ride a bike hard, like a sportbike, and you can't always roll gently in and out of the throttle. That method doesn't work for more aggressive riding.
Quote:I do find it to be a slow revver, more torquey than peaky with no discernable " hit" in the rpms zones I ride in.
Agreed. No obvious hit anywhere.
Quote:On our roads 3500 rpms is plenty to ride acceptibly fast,
Not for me, it isn't. The only time I'm happy on the CB at those RPM is on the highway or freeway. In the canyons, sub-3500 RPM gets you nowhere fast. You're just rolling around, smoothly arcing from corner to corner. That's fine, but it ain't fast.
Quote:illegally fast even
Well, sure, but that's a given. Any twist of the throttle on any halfway decent motorcycle results in illegal speeds, and the CB is no exception.
Nature of the beast.
Quote:but then again I won't run 100 mph on 55 mph roads.
With just a few exceptions, the only times we hit 100 mph were on the freeway. On the backroads, I only jumped his bike up that fast once. I wanted to check the acceleration in each gear, to confirm your "sundial" description. Thankfully, I found nothing of the sort, and neither did Eric.
Quote:I might run 60 or 65. Smooth throttle application and good line choice is more important here to going fast, than hard throttling and a point and shoot riding style.
This bike enforces that riding style. It doesn't enjoy being treated more aggressively, like a sportbike. We already knew this, but what I discovered was that your method simply won't allow the bike to go fast enough to be any fun for me, or for Eric either, I learned. Those are parade float RPM. Zipping it up above 5K results in "normal" motorcycling fun.
Quote:I also feel no buzziness and find the motor incredibly smooth.
Above 4K and definitely above 5K it has a bit of high-frequency buzz in the pegs, seat, tank, and bars. It's there, but it's not enough to be a bother.
Quote:After reading just how you tested the CB and my interpretation of the results you came up with, I stand by my assertion that I don't think this is the bike for you. Forcing yourself to slow down by buying a bike with "heavy, slow steering,excessive drive line lash, buzziness at certain rpms, sketchy suspension, and transmission with slow responses" is unlikely to work for you, and will probably lead to frustration and a poor return on your investment.
You need to read all of what I described, instead of focusing solely on the negatives. The positives far outweigh the negatives, and the positives are all of particular importance to me. The negatives are things that I can mostly rationalize away as being part and parcel of the Greater Good I'm shooting for here.
The only lasting negatives were the sketchy suspension and slow steering. I'm hopeful that the '17 EX's suspension upgrade and some fiddling of the settings will (mostly) take care of the former issue, and in time I would simply get used to the latter issue. If I ride the bike long enough, without swapping to another bike, the CB's steering will eventually become normal to me. Also, a set of new, non-squared-off tires might cure the slow-steering issue completely.
If Eric's bike had steered as lightly at speed as I expected it to, which it may very well do with a new set of tires, it would have transformed the entire ride for me. All I really would have been left with as a complaint is the suspension, which is not a difficult fix, and the '17 may already provide the solution.
Quote:Keep the XSR.
I doubt I will. I will likely go to the CB1000R or the Z900, if I'm going to remain on a naked sportbike. The question now is simply do I go with the '17 EX or another naked sportbike?
cookiemech, make no mistake, I am very much a Honda partisan. Were the CB1100 not a flagship Honda product, I would still admire it and think it beautiful, but it would not be my first choice among the modern retros. In that instance, the T120 would be my clear favorite. Because the CB1100 is a Honda, however, it holds much greater appeal to me.
(01-14-2018, 11:25 PM)The ferret_imp Wrote: Interesting review and I find it quite surprizing actually. Maybe it's the rpms you were riding at, or the speeds, maybe it's the roads, maybe it's just my personal bike, but my review of the CB1100 would be very different.
I don't find the steering heavy at all, even at parking lot speeds. As a matter of fact I find it suprisingly light. I have no problem holding a line thru a curve, changing a line thru a curve, and can ride thru curves using only my throttle hand while shooting pictures with the other. I can pull a rolling U turn on my country lane and a half road. I find the bike has one of the best transmissions I have ever experienced..snick, snick, snick gear changes up or down, the only exception being the first to second or second to first shift. Hardly tractor like, and drive line lash is not an issue if you are smooth rolling the throttle on and off rather than chopping the throttle on and off. I do find it to be a slow revver, more torquey than peaky with no discernable " hit" in the rpms zones I ride in. On our roads 3500 rpms is plenty to ride acceptibly fast, illegally fast even, but then again I won't run 100 mph on 55 mph roads. I might run 60 or 65. Smooth throttle application and good line choice is more important here to going fast, than hard throttling and a point and shoot riding style. I also feel no buzziness and find the motor incredibly smooth.
After reading just how you tested the CB and my interpretation of the results you came up with, I stand by my assertion that I don't think this is the bike for you. Forcing yourself to slow down by buying a bike with "heavy, slow steering,excessive drive line lash, buzziness at certain rpms, sketchy suspension, and transmission with slow responses" is unlikely to work for you, and will probably lead to frustration and a poor return on your investment.
Keep the XSR.
I'm sure it's all of those things, but it starts off with where and how we rode vs where and how you ride. Otherwise, yes, in some regards I was just as surprised as you are.
Quote:I don't find the steering heavy at all, even at parking lot speeds. As a matter of fact I find it suprisingly light.
Compared to my bike, simply turning the wheel back and forth while idling shows how much heavier the front end is on the CB; how resistant it is to turning. Once moving, the front end on my bike almost feels like a bicycle compared to the CB's front end, the turn-in is that much lighter.
I was shocked. I've never experienced anything like that with a Honda, except on the cruisers. I was fully expecting the usual Honda trick of heavy bike/light, easy, neutral handling.
One possible explanation that occured to me is that Eric has over 6,000 miles on his tires, and, IIRC, the vast majority of those miles are commuter miles. He has likely spent most of his time on his bike on the very center of the tire, and it's probably a bit squared off by now, which would lead to heavier steering.
Because his bike was so heavy steering, and the CB1100 is almost universally described as having very light steering, this would be my best guess as to why his bike in its current state might be an anomaly.
Quote:I have no problem holding a line thru a curve, changing a line thru a curve, and can ride thru curves using only my throttle hand while shooting pictures with the other. I can pull a rolling U turn on my country lane and a half road.
I could do all those same things too on Eric's bike, albeit with much greater effort than is required to do those things on the XSR.
I found it particularly surprising because all but one review of the CB1100 I've ever read described its light, easy steering, once up to speed. They all say it's heavy and ponderous at parking lot speeds, which is to be expected of such a long, heavy, and relatively top-heavy bike, but Hondas almost always have dead-neutral handling and light steering, once rolling.
This one ride review from an absolute newbie rider is the only one I've found that described what I experienced yesterday on Eric's bike, in terms of the front end's initial resistance to turn. He mentions this, and adds that once the lean angle is set, it's fine. It's reluctant to snap back in the other direction, but that's to be expected of a long, top-heavy bike with conservative steering geometry...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVMaMXianHM
Quote:I find the bike has one of the best transmissions I have ever experienced..snick, snick, snick gear changes up or down, the only exception being the first to second or second to first shift.
It works just fine, but it's nowhere near as fast and seamless as the trannies on most modern Japanese sportbikes. Compared to the XSR's tranny, the CB's shifts were much more deliberate, accompanied by a much more pronounced 'clunk' between shifts.
The only time it ever posed an issue for me was when I wanted to slap a fast downshift on the brakes, heading into a corner. Eric was far more critical than I was of his tranny. Whereas he described it as a Russian tractor, I would compare it the Moto Guzzi V7. It's smoother than the Guzzi tranny, but similar.
It's nothing like a GSX-R or CBR tranny. It's intentionally old school.
Quote:drive line lash is not an issue if you are smooth rolling the throttle on and off rather than chopping the throttle on and off.
No doubt. Most of the time, the drive lash was a nonissue. I was able to coax it into clunking, but I had to try to do it. Chop the throttle and get back on it quickly, and it clunks a lot more than the XSR. Ride a bike hard, like a sportbike, and you can't always roll gently in and out of the throttle. That method doesn't work for more aggressive riding.
Quote:I do find it to be a slow revver, more torquey than peaky with no discernable " hit" in the rpms zones I ride in.
Agreed. No obvious hit anywhere.
Quote:On our roads 3500 rpms is plenty to ride acceptibly fast,
Not for me, it isn't. The only time I'm happy on the CB at those RPM is on the highway or freeway. In the canyons, sub-3500 RPM gets you nowhere fast. You're just rolling around, smoothly arcing from corner to corner. That's fine, but it ain't fast.
Quote:illegally fast even
Well, sure, but that's a given. Any twist of the throttle on any halfway decent motorcycle results in illegal speeds, and the CB is no exception.
Nature of the beast.
Quote:but then again I won't run 100 mph on 55 mph roads.
With just a few exceptions, the only times we hit 100 mph were on the freeway. On the backroads, I only jumped his bike up that fast once. I wanted to check the acceleration in each gear, to confirm your "sundial" description. Thankfully, I found nothing of the sort, and neither did Eric.
Quote:I might run 60 or 65. Smooth throttle application and good line choice is more important here to going fast, than hard throttling and a point and shoot riding style.
This bike enforces that riding style. It doesn't enjoy being treated more aggressively, like a sportbike. We already knew this, but what I discovered was that your method simply won't allow the bike to go fast enough to be any fun for me, or for Eric either, I learned. Those are parade float RPM. Zipping it up above 5K results in "normal" motorcycling fun.
Quote:I also feel no buzziness and find the motor incredibly smooth.
Above 4K and definitely above 5K it has a bit of high-frequency buzz in the pegs, seat, tank, and bars. It's there, but it's not enough to be a bother.
Quote:After reading just how you tested the CB and my interpretation of the results you came up with, I stand by my assertion that I don't think this is the bike for you. Forcing yourself to slow down by buying a bike with "heavy, slow steering,excessive drive line lash, buzziness at certain rpms, sketchy suspension, and transmission with slow responses" is unlikely to work for you, and will probably lead to frustration and a poor return on your investment.
You need to read all of what I described, instead of focusing solely on the negatives. The positives far outweigh the negatives, and the positives are all of particular importance to me. The negatives are things that I can mostly rationalize away as being part and parcel of the Greater Good I'm shooting for here.
The only lasting negatives were the sketchy suspension and slow steering. I'm hopeful that the '17 EX's suspension upgrade and some fiddling of the settings will (mostly) take care of the former issue, and in time I would simply get used to the latter issue. If I ride the bike long enough, without swapping to another bike, the CB's steering will eventually become normal to me. Also, a set of new, non-squared-off tires might cure the slow-steering issue completely.
If Eric's bike had steered as lightly at speed as I expected it to, which it may very well do with a new set of tires, it would have transformed the entire ride for me. All I really would have been left with as a complaint is the suspension, which is not a difficult fix, and the '17 may already provide the solution.
Quote:Keep the XSR.
I doubt I will. I will likely go to the CB1000R or the Z900, if I'm going to remain on a naked sportbike. The question now is simply do I go with the '17 EX or another naked sportbike?